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Post by audiobill on Jan 9, 2015 11:25:36 GMT -5
Cool, it's all good. My first wow impressions were Eric Clapton's "woman tone" in Sunshine, and Hendrix in Purple Haze, and I've moved to jazz from those long ago beginnings!!!  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 9, 2015 11:32:02 GMT -5
And as I type, I'm ripping Haydn's Symphony 45 "Abachiedssinfonie" played by the Orchestra Philharmonica Itiliana conducted by Alessandro Arigoni (CD on Black Dot label). Find me THAT on any online streaming service! LOL
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Post by drtrey3 on Jan 9, 2015 13:01:00 GMT -5
Gotcha Boomzilla, I did not mean to suggest that, sorry! I just wanted to stick up for amplified and synthesized and distorted music in general! I thought it needed some love!
Steve Guttenberg wrote a nice article about having different systems for different types of music. He was quite fond of Klipsch Heresy speakers for rock. When I read that, I thought of your using one for a center channel for a while! Back on topic, it is true we cannot know what Metallica is "supposed" to sound like. What it sounded like in the studio, or over the headphones, or on the master tape? There is no naturalistic reference for that sort of music. I could care less. I want Metallica to rock hard so I can feel things. And the better my system sounds, the more moving the experience. That is some of the stuff I meant to communicate.
Sorry my post was unclear, not enough sleep last night!
Trey
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 9, 2015 13:44:05 GMT -5
Gotcha Boomzilla, I did not mean to suggest that, sorry! I just wanted to stick up for amplified and synthesized and distorted music in general! I thought it needed some love! Steve Guttenberg wrote a nice article about having different systems for different types of music. He was quite fond of Klipsch Heresy speakers for rock. When I read that, I thought of your using one for a center channel for a while! Back on topic, it is true we cannot know what Metallica is "supposed" to sound like. What it sounded like in the studio, or over the headphones, or on the master tape? There is no naturalistic reference for that sort of music. I could care less. I want Metallica to rock hard so I can feel things. And the better my system sounds, the more moving the experience. That is some of the stuff I meant to communicate. Sorry my post was unclear, not enough sleep last night! Trey I thought your post was fine drtrey3 - I like Reverend Horton Heat and Republica, myself... And at one time, there were "Rock speakers" (primarily JBL & Altec) and "Acoustic speakers" such as Dynaco, KLH, and Advent. Any more, colored speakers have mostly disappeared from the market. The brands that still survive make far more neutral speakers than they used to. Now, at the lower to middle end of the market, one pays more for volume capability than tonal purity. Volume can be had either of two ways - high sensitivity or high power handling (or a mix of the two). At the bottom of the food chain, (audiophilically speaking) there's the Dayton towers & bookshelves (I don't consider HT in a box plastic speakers to have any audiophile pretentions). Even the inexpensive Daytons, once they break in, offer more or less accurate reproduction with as much power handling as you're willing to pay for. In the middle of the pack, there are the "introduction to high-end" speakers such as the entry-level Magnepans and (what I own), the Axiom dynamics. Moving up the food chain, there are Revel, Avalon, etc. MANY of these speakers (at all price points) do a credible job on BOTH Metallica AND The Academy of St. Martin in the Fields. With a fair subwoofer, their capabilities expand even more! Never before was such performance available at such low cost. THAT'S what I was trying to say in my post - an in no way dissing what you said! Cheers - Boomzilla |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 14:07:26 GMT -5
And as I type, I'm ripping Haydn's Symphony 45 "Abachiedssinfonie" played by the Orchestra Philharmonica Itiliana conducted by Alessandro Arigoni (CD on Black Dot label). Find me THAT on any online streaming service! LOL Hello, wondering when the last time you might have given Spotify a look was? Major problem with classical on streaming services has been totally unacceptable search functions. This lacuna is slowly being rectified. Spotify allows search by label so you can do say label:Arcana and get the pretty much complete catalog returned. Also, a search for Arigoni will return the artist and albums which include the Haydn disc you mentioned. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 14:18:47 GMT -5
I have been a rhapsody subscriber for at least 5 years and have lately been using mostly Spotify. Even with the free version and through the web player I am not receiving any commercials. I think the sound quality is excellent. With my 55 year old ears, when I compare high quality mp3 and flac back to back it hurts my brain not only to perceive a difference, but then it is impossible to say which is better. The kind of listening it takes me just to note a difference is certainly incompatible with listening for enjoyment. Only a few classical labels, notable Hyperion and ECM (classical and jazz) are missing from both of the streaming services I currently rely upon. Many really obscure, independent labels are there. Naxos has recently started to embargo their new releases for 6 months. This my be the golden age of classical streaming. It is certainly possible that labels with withdraw their catalogs in the future. I am not sure how they can sustain themselves on the paltry streaming royalties but that is not my problem.
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 9, 2015 14:43:03 GMT -5
When I went speaker hunting back in late 2005 - 2006, I made 2 mix CD's that contained all the things I wanted to hear on a potential speaker system. It was remarkable to me how differently speakers performed with different types of music. Some speakers were just awesome with classical, but sucked with rock, and vice versa. Some played smooth musical jazz great but sucked at hard core metal. Now if I only listened to jazz guitar 98% of the time, it would have been much easier for me to have picked my ultimate speakers. Not necessarily for perfect accuracy, but for speakers that I thought sounded great with jazz guitar. As it is, I listen to all kinds of stuff. Add to it that my system is a full blown home entertainment room that includes a lot of TV and movie watching in surround sound, and I had a challenge. I also had a $5000 budget. It was much harder to find speakers that, to me, did everything well and had a good balance with everything. Are my speakers the greatest at anything? Nope. Is a decathlon winner the best at anything? Nope. But are they still good to very good at everything? Yep. That's what my speakers are for me.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jan 9, 2015 15:16:15 GMT -5
The streaming royalties may be paltry, but a *lot* of people are streaming, and not that many are buying classical CDs (or vinyl). I'm also inclined to believe that the two markets are separate (so they may not sell any fewer discs by letting you stream their content, and any extra revenue they get from streaming is... more revenue they wouldn't have had otherwise). Also, for those folks who might actually buy the disc, streaming, like radio, serves as advertising. Another thing to consider is that with streaming there are no physical production or stocking costs. (You don't have to make discs and hope they'll get sold, you don't have to warehouse those discs, and you don't have to ship them.) This makes it a lot more practical way for a company to offer a large number of titles if they only expect to sell a few of each. Basically, once your recording is produced, at whatever cost, everything you get back after that is pure revenue. I'm pretty sure that, unlike popular albums that may sell a million copies the month they're released, and a few every month after that, hoping to sell a few copies a month for years and years is a more sustainable business model for classical music. (Obviously your business model has to consider each album produced to be a long term investment and you need to plan accordingly.) I would also assume that most classical recordings are done live (you're recording an orchestra playing a scheduled concert). This would mean that less studio cost is involved. This would, in turn, make the cost of producing and selling physical discs (if you did so) a higher percentage of the total cost of production, which makes it even more valuable to be able to AVOID those costs. Even better if the orchestra considers your recording to be good advertising... and if they're willing to be part of it for a share of the gross (rather than having to hire a bunch of guys to come into the studio and play). Clearly, the music industry has got to change some of its current business models, and this seems like one way to do so successfully. The largest issues with lossy compression occur at high frequencies - which many of us become less able to hear as we get older. Also, some speakers tend to emphasize the problems that do occur more than others, and some music has more important stuff in those frequencies than other content. (I used to own a pair of vintage Spica Angelus speakers. Spica speakers were known for not being especially revealing, but for making most things sound good. When I compared them to other speakers, they definitely failed to reveal how great certain few really good recordings sounded, but they also tended to make even bad recordings sound quite nice.... or, at the very least, "listenable". Everything ended up sounding "pretty good". Unfortunately (or fortunately) I'm one of those people who just can't stand the thought that I'm missing something, and I tend to tolerate hearing the warts on bad recordings in return for hearing just how good the few really top notch ones can sound, so that didn't work for me. I seem to recall that Spotify used to mix about one commercial per five selections - but often their commercial consisted simply of playing a song you hadn't asked for as a preview. Perhaps they've lightened up a bit on that. I have been a rhapsody subscriber for at least 5 years and have lately been using mostly Spotify. Even with the free version and through the web player I am not receiving any commercials. I think the sound quality is excellent. With my 55 year old ears, when I compare high quality mp3 and flac back to back it hurts my brain not only to perceive a difference, but then it is impossible to say which is better. The kind of listening it takes me just to note a difference is certainly incompatible with listening for enjoyment. Only a few classical labels, notable Hyperion and ECM (classical and jazz) are missing from both of the streaming services I currently rely upon. Many really obscure, independent labels are there. Naxos has recently started to embargo their new releases for 6 months. This my be the golden age of classical streaming. It is certainly possible that labels with withdraw their catalogs in the future. I am not sure how they can sustain themselves on the paltry streaming royalties but that is not my problem. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jan 9, 2015 15:20:46 GMT -5
Most programs base their categories on the tags that are already there - although different ones use or ignore different tags. Since CDs don't have their own tags, most rippers get their tags from one or another online database, and ad them to the file when they rip it. The best way to control what the tags say is to tag the files yourself. You can also let the ripper tag everything, including song titles and such, then go back with a tag editor and change the ones you don't like (like the category). I seem to recall one called "Tag and Rename" as being pretty good. Keith The one thing that both do that drives me mad is classifying an album as "Various Artists" if track band names vary (iTunes does this much more readily than JRiver.) For example, if a track is listed as "Band Name featuring Guest Artist" the CD is suddenly a Various Artist compilation. This drives me batty.. Um can I get a Hell YES!  Absolutely a PITA. I have not tried to undo it....yet......but really does nothing but clutter your UI. |
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Post by KeithL on Jan 9, 2015 15:23:16 GMT -5
You should look into various tag editors. At minimum a decent editor should let you "batch edit" (by, for example, selecting a whole group of files and entering the same category or artist for all of them). If you use this sort of feature intelligently, it can save you an awful lot of typing. Um can I get a Hell YES! Absolutely a PITA. I have not tried to undo it....yet......but really does nothing but clutter your UI. One track at time, editing the "artist", copy and paste, track by track, it's a right royal pain in the ass (that's a donkey). Cheers Gary |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 9, 2015 22:01:36 GMT -5
Well, you can dispense with the cost of producing and distributing disks in a model that requires pay for download to own. A model which is out there but undercut by the all you can eat rental service. Most of the royalty models based on pay per listen provide the same fee for a 3 minute pop ditty and a symphony movement or maybe a complete symphony. I would also suggest that perhaps 5%, maybe less of classical recordings are done live. Vast majority are done in the studio. The exception now is opera, all of the biggies have given up on studio opera recording because of the expense.
Keith replied - Another thing to consider is that with streaming there are no physical production or stocking costs. (You don't have to make discs and hope they'll get sold, you don't have to warehouse those discs, and you don't have to ship them.) This makes it a lot more practical way for a company to offer a large number of titles if they only expect to sell a few of each. Basically, once your recording is produced, at whatever cost, everything you get back after that is pure revenue. I'm pretty sure that, unlike popular albums that may sell a million copies the month they're released, and a few every month after that, hoping to sell a few copies a month for years and years is a more sustainable business model for classical music. (Obviously your business model has to consider each album produced to be a long term investment and you need to plan accordingly.)
I would also assume that most classical recordings are done live (you're recording an orchestra playing a scheduled concert). This would mean that less studio cost is involved. This would, in turn, make the cost of producing and selling physical discs (if you did so) a higher percentage of the total cost of production, which makes it even more valuable to be able to AVOID those costs. Even better if the orchestra considers your recording to be good advertising... and if they're willing to be part of it for a share of the gross (rather than having to hire a bunch of guys to come into the studio and play). Clearly, the music industry has got to change some of its current business models, and this seems like one way to do so successfull
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Post by Priapulus on Jan 9, 2015 22:51:05 GMT -5
Since CDs don't have their own tags, most rippers get their tags from one or another online database, and ad them to the file when they rip it. The best way to control what the tags say is to tag the files yourself. You can also let the ripper tag everything, including song titles and such, then go back with a tag editor and change the ones you don't like (like the category).
CD cuts ~~do~~ have their tags, and often even include the folder photo file on the CD. Where do you think CD players get the info for their displays? Good rippers like dbPoweramp preserve those tags and allow you to edit them, before ripping. The tags on the CDs are often wrong and need editing. I also do some post-rip tag editing with Tag&Rename. Tag&Replace will even automatically generate the .m3u file.
Tag editing is the most important part of ripping...
Sincerely /blair
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Post by audiobill on Jan 10, 2015 8:08:16 GMT -5
You should look into various tag editors. At minimum a decent editor should let you "batch edit" (by, for example, selecting a whole group of files and entering the same category or artist for all of them). If you use this sort of feature intelligently, it can save you an awful lot of typing. One track at time, editing the "artist", copy and paste, track by track, it's a right royal pain in the ass (that's a donkey). Cheers Gary Keith, whether it's tubes vs. solid state, physical media vs streaming, etc etc I for one admire your knowledge and ability to see both sides of these matters. Well done. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 18, 2015 19:21:59 GMT -5
Grooming continues - I'm up to the R-S labels now. So far, over 150 duplicate discs on the shelves off to the yard sale bin. Also, curiously, about 30% of the discs on the shelf (previously ripped) are no longer in the server library & I'm having to rip them again (a VERY time-consuming process). Nevertheless, once done, this shouldn't need doing again!
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 18, 2015 20:46:22 GMT -5
Grooming continues - I'm up to the R-S labels now. So far, over 150 duplicate discs on the shelves off to the yard sale bin. Also, curiously, about 30% of the discs on the shelf (previously ripped) are no longer in the server library & I'm having to rip them again (a VERY time-consuming process). Nevertheless, once done, this shouldn't need doing again! I'm bit further along, smaller collection helps, I have a handful to re rip and then about the same number to reacquire the artwork. Then I'll make a new back up for residing in the safe. Cheers Gary |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 19, 2015 7:15:20 GMT -5
I'm bit further along, smaller collection helps... Doesn't it, though! LOL Once my grooming is done, the next chore is to do some serious listening & pare down the number of performances of the same music. Currently, I may have a half-dozen versions of Mozart's "Jupiter" symphony. I'll keep the best two, and yard-sale the rest. By the bye - Any o youse guys interested in a big batch of CDs? I'll break them down into classical, jazz, etc. Yard sale prices! $1 per disc + media mail shipping? |
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Post by audiobill on Jan 19, 2015 7:52:02 GMT -5
I'm bit further along, smaller collection helps... Doesn't it, though! LOL Once my grooming is done, the next chore is to do some serious listening & pare down the number of performances of the same music. Currently, I may have a half-dozen versions of Mozart's "Jupiter" symphony. I'll keep the best two, and yard-sale the rest. By the bye - Any o youse guys interested in a big batch of CDs? I'll break them down into classical, jazz, etc. Yard sale prices! $1 per disc + media mail shipping? Boom, the Penguin Guide may help in thinning the herd..... |
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 19, 2015 8:39:55 GMT -5
Boom, the Penguin Guide may help in thinning the herd..... An excellent idea - thank you very much! |
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Post by Priapulus on Jan 19, 2015 9:11:20 GMT -5
Why thin the herd?
Disk space costs nothing. I must have 7 copies of the Messiah, and listen to all of them; even the bad ones. It is very interesting to compare and contrast different interpretations. Some of the versions done in early "authentic" style with original instruments, that 10 years ago I hated and found primitive; are now my favourite. Can you predict your future taste?
Sincerely
/b
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Post by Boomzilla on Jan 19, 2015 9:54:23 GMT -5
I've found that I also enjoy "original instrument" performances. That said, a good conductor and talented musicians (plus a good recording) win out every time. What I often find, though, is that I tend to return to my one or two "favorite" performances of a given piece. If I never listen to a third (or fourth, or fifth) recording of the same piece, why clutter up the library with them? Disc space may be inexpensive, but the limits are in the robustness and integrity of the software's database. The more music in the database, the more likely corruption is to occur (in my experience). On the other hand, some of us (I'm thinking of Mr. DYohn here) have endless titles in iTunes without even a hint of trouble. So it isn't assured that database corruption will occur just because you have lots of music. But my data has become corrupt (repeatedly). Not to get back into that - JRiver so far hasn't lost or deleted music (although it occasionally scrambles the cover art). |
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