XMR-1

[Bonzo]

Feb 10, 2016 16:40:37 GMT -5 klinemj said:

I disagree. Emotiva is for people who want strong value, independent of price. As for the XPR amps and why they are no longer, I suspect it was because they had a limited market due to needing to be shipped on a pallet and all the cost and hassle that comes with. Very few people really need/want as much power as they had, so I suspect independent of price...it would always be a low volume item. I would pay $5000 for the right piece of Emo gear if it gave me value over what I could buy elsewhere.

Mark

The problem is, we are talking about processors here, not amps. If I had the funds and the choice, I would personally rather pay $10,000 for a great amp than $5000 for a processor. The amp could possibly give a life time of quality service. There may be different techniques to go about it, but all amps essentially do the same thing. Some better than others, but basically the same thing. Processors go in and out yearly. Channels, decoders, Wifi, Bluetooth etc. They are constantly on the move.

Krell amps are better than Emotiva's but they cost a ton more. There is less bang for the buck value there for sure. But if I had the means, I would rather spend $20,000 on a Krell amp than $10,000 on one of their processors. And what Emotiva is asking is backwards of that. They will be asking about $2000 for 7 channels of amp and $5000+ for a processor.

$5000 for a processor that will not be up to speed with tech in even 5 years is a hard pill to swallow for me. I even think it's hard to swallow for most average Joe's. As an example, I remember, probably around 5 years ago, that the guy from Parasound actually recommended that people should just stop buying pre-amps and should just buy a new inexpensive receiver every year or 2 to keep up.

I disagree with you saying "independent of price" regarding Emotiva. That's just not true for most people. On the contrary, I believe Emotiva is still in business only because their products are so inexpensive for what you get. And these new series 3 amps will show that. They cost significantly more than the old amps, so we'll just have to wait and see.

[Bonzo]

Feb 10, 2016 17:16:39 GMT -5 rtg97229 said:

.....but I suspect the investment already made by Emotiva is enough that they will release something resembling an XMR.

What investment? Is there evidence of investment in the XMR-1?

That I know of, all we have is Dan telling us (and a magazine) about a premier processor (and a few planned details about it), and someone here who asked them directly, and got an answer that it's not even past the initial concept stage at this point (aka not even on the drawing board).

Investment in the XMC-1 certainly. Like I said in a previous post, if the XMC-1 continues to sell well and sales don't drop off and they make a good profit, then and only then do I think we will see an XMR-1.

I really do hope it happens for those who can afford it, but I'm not holding my breath at the moment.

[Axis]

Feb 10, 2016 17:43:28 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

Feb 10, 2016 17:16:39 GMT -5 rtg97229 said:

.....but I suspect the investment already made by Emotiva is enough that they will release something resembling an XMR.

What investment? Is there evidence of investment in the XMR-1?

That I know of, all we have is Dan telling us (and a magazine) about a premier processor (and a few planned details about it), and someone here who asked them directly, and got an answer that it's not even past the initial concept stage at this point (aka not even on the drawing board).

Investment in the XMC-1 certainly. Like I said in a previous post, if the XMC-1 continues to sell well and sales don't drop off and they make a good profit, then and only then do I think we will see an XMR-1.

I really do hope it happens for those who can afford it, but I'm not holding my breath at the moment.

Bonzo, what other products is Emotiva working on ?

[Axis]

Feb 10, 2016 14:18:58 GMT -5 Talley said:

I don't care what you got it for, don't even care what I paid for mine (1750 used). I wanted it, I bought it. The new price at that time was 2k and mine came in mint and works great so I saved a lil of the retail.

Lets talk the reality of things. Emotiva killed their XPR amplifiers... their XMC has sold great... whats for them to change? They are not going to release an XMR anytime soon especially not even having amps to match it to.

A new model for the XMC will be issued is about the best bet you can ask for and that is not until they have milked all the XMC sales they can.

Talley, maybe you can tell us what Emotiva is working on. What will be the next product after they release the gear they announced at CES 2016 ?

[Bonzo]

Feb 10, 2016 17:53:06 GMT -5 Axis said:

Bonzo, what other products is Emotiva working on ?

I don't know completely.

I only know what has been told to us about the XMR-1, which is the discussion of this thread, and it is supposedly not past basically what I would call the idea or pre-planning stage. That info may be totally bogus or it may not. But if that information is true, I wouldn't bet $1.00 the XMR-1 will be out and about in 2016 (like many others here had hypothesized and hoped for) let alone 2017.

To elaborate on your question, if I were just guessing, I'd say first they want and need to get these new Gen 3 amps, speakers and the Emersa stuff up and going ASAP. I'd guess that's their current #1 priority. It's a big job. After that, since they have also said things about a new entry level line, I would guess that would come next. Depending on how far along that is and based on past history, I'd guess, what, maybe the end of the year?

All a guess of course. But remember, the XMC-1 was "right around the corner" for how many years? Even after it was built the testing took a long long time. Let's not forget that the XPR amp line was discontinued, and I believe it might have been Keith that said there were no current plans for direct replacement. If the full blown reference amps went away, it would be a very easy evolution to have a non-existent full blown processor go away. Emotiva changes their mind at the drop of hat, so to say the XMR-1 is a sure lock for production is, well, wishful thinking at this point I think.

[Axis]

Feb 10, 2016 18:44:09 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

Feb 10, 2016 17:53:06 GMT -5 Axis said:

Bonzo, what other products is Emotiva working on ?

I don't know completely.

I only know what has been told to us about the XMR-1, which is the discussion of this thread, and it is supposedly not past basically what I would call the idea or pre-planning stage. That info may be totally bogus or it may not. But if that information is true, I wouldn't bet $1.00 the XMR-1 will be out and about in 2016 (like many others here had hypothesized and hoped for) let alone 2017.

To elaborate on your question, if I were just guessing, I'd say first they want and need to get these new Gen 3 amps, speakers and the Emersa stuff up and going ASAP. I'd guess that's their current #1 priority. It's a big job. After that, since they have also said things about a new entry level line, I would guess that would come next. Depending on how far along that is and based on past history, I'd guess, what, maybe the end of the year?

All a guess of course. But remember, the XMC-1 was "right around the corner" for how many years? Even after it was built the testing took a long long time. Let's not forget that the XPR amp line was discontinued, and I believe it might have been Keith that said there were no current plans for direct replacement. If the full blown reference amps went away, it would be a very easy evolution to have a non-existent full blown processor go away. Emotiva changes their mind at the drop of hat, so to say the XMR-1 is a sure lock for production is, well, wishful thinking at this point I think.

Bonzo, read my last post in the Thread "Worth it ?". I just posted the answer to that question there. It is a Line called Base X. Remember the Stones song "You Can't Always Get What You Want" ? "But if you try sometimes, you get what you need".

Bonzo, did you know about Base X. If not, what else do you not know. Something better than what you thought may be just around the corner and it is what you need.

emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/45884/worth

[djoel]

Me personally was a little disappointed when not one word said about this processor st the CEO 16 .There were blurbs here and there then in one of the largest platforms nothing? I got that sinking feeling, oh well it's not life changing at all but ever once and while you want some excitement.

Hope to hear something by summer if not life goes on.

[klinemj]

Feb 10, 2016 17:35:49 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

The problem is, we are talking about processors here, not amps. If I had the funds and the choice, I would personally rather pay $10,000 for a great amp than $5000 for a processor.

Processors go in and out yearly.

While it is true and processors have a shorter life due to what they do, I find they make a bigger different in sound and functionality of my system. So, as pricey as they can me - I find I change them more often than amps. My average life with a processor has been about 4 years. While something new is there every year, not every new thing is something I am willing to buy.

Feb 10, 2016 17:35:49 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

Krell amps are better than Emotiva's but they cost a ton more. There is less bang for the buck value there for sure.

I've heard Krell amps, and I would not spend the $ for them over Emotiva at all either. Far too less bang for the buck.

Feb 10, 2016 17:35:49 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

I disagree with you saying "independent of price" regarding Emotiva. That's just not true for most people. On the contrary, I believe Emotiva is still in business only because their products are so inexpensive for what you get.

I should have said what I did with an "IMHO" in it. But, as far as why you say Emotiva is still in business...we're saying the same thing. Their products are inexpensive for what you get...that is value (benefit divided by price...). And for me, this is true on amps, speakers, DAC's, pre-amps, AND processors. Others may differ in opinions.

Mark

[Axis]

Everyone.

If Emotiva is not changing there mind and there course, that is when they are not growing with the technology. They scratched the XMC-1 almost minutes from release several times and everyone screamed bloody murder. They did not do it to piss you off. They did it because it was not the product they wanted for there customers. Maybe they are building your future gear now. Maybe the reasons you think it is not available now or next week is completely different from there reasons for it not available now or next week. You do not need to know why Emotiva does not make the products you want when you want them. They will be the products that Emotiva wants for there customers and available to you also when they are ready to release them.

I am sure some are very successful here. Some may just be lucky but most know it is hard work to be very successful. If you own and run a business one bad decision can cause that business to fail. The persons responsible for the consequences of making a bad business decision should not be seeking advice on a forum with post by anonymous people. They should know there business very well and keep things secret. Business savvy. You got spoiled when Dan used to tell you everything and now your acting like children. You saw what Jason Stoddard wrote about his Schiit Audio company and you know that no other company that makes all this Audio gear that is your hobby tells you what they are doing.

Grow up !

[rtg97229]

Feb 10, 2016 17:43:28 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

Feb 10, 2016 17:16:39 GMT -5 rtg97229 said:

.....but I suspect the investment already made by Emotiva is enough that they will release something resembling an XMR.

What investment? Is there evidence of investment in the XMR-1?

That I know of, all we have is Dan telling us (and a magazine) about a premier processor (and a few planned details about it), and someone here who asked them directly, and got an answer that it's not even past the initial concept stage at this point (aka not even on the drawing board).

Investment in the XMC-1 certainly. Like I said in a previous post, if the XMC-1 continues to sell well and sales don't drop off and they make a good profit, then and only then do I think we will see an XMR-1.

I really do hope it happens for those who can afford it, but I'm not holding my breath at the moment.

The work put into the XMC-1 could be useful as a starting point on other products such as an XMR or other similar products. I don't suspect that Marantz or Denon start every product from scratch for example.

[Talley]

Feb 10, 2016 17:58:41 GMT -5 Axis said:

Feb 10, 2016 14:18:58 GMT -5 Talley said:

I don't care what you got it for, don't even care what I paid for mine (1750 used). I wanted it, I bought it. The new price at that time was 2k and mine came in mint and works great so I saved a lil of the retail.

Lets talk the reality of things. Emotiva killed their XPR amplifiers... their XMC has sold great... whats for them to change? They are not going to release an XMR anytime soon especially not even having amps to match it to.

A new model for the XMC will be issued is about the best bet you can ask for and that is not until they have milked all the XMC sales they can.

Talley, maybe you can tell us what Emotiva is working on. What will be the next product after they release the gear they announced at CES 2016 ?

XPR amps w/ aluminum chassis so they are 2.3lb lighter and can be shipped without pallet

[rtg97229]

Feb 10, 2016 19:24:33 GMT -5 klinemj said:

While it is true and processors have a shorter life due to what they do, I find they make a bigger different in sound and functionality of my system. So, as pricey as they can me - I find I change them more often than amps. My average life with a processor has been about 4 years. While something new is there every year, not every new thing is something I am willing to buy.

I think that is a fair assessment. Unfortunately for me it is more painful to invest in a new SSP because I know it won't stay in my system as long as some other gear.

Feb 10, 2016 19:24:33 GMT -5 klinemj said:

I've heard Krell amps, and I would not spend the $ for them over Emotiva at all either. Far too less bang for the buck.

Yeah most amps I have seem work just fine. I have noting against Krell but I agree with out about price point.

Feb 10, 2016 19:24:33 GMT -5 klinemj said:

Their products are inexpensive for what you get...that is value (benefit divided by price...). And for me, this is true on amps, speakers, DAC's, pre-amps, AND processors. Others may differ in opinions.

I think that is a good summery of both the way I see it and what emotiva marketing says.

[Bonzo]

Feb 10, 2016 19:29:28 GMT -5 rtg97229 said:

The work put into the XMC-1 could be useful as a starting point on other products such as an XMR or other similar products. I don't suspect that Marantz or Denon start every product from scratch for example.

Very true. It will help a lot. But man, 16 channels of fully balanced runs is a ton. And one has to wonder how many balanced inputs will they offer? 1 set? 2 sets? And since I know nothing of how Dirac works, how hard would it be to implement that for 16 channels? Everyone dreaming of this amp has different opinions what they think it should be. For me I want a lot of input and output options, including a lot of analog (the people who only want HDMI should look elsewhere), and a bunch of other things I won't take the time to mention since I'm on my phone. But needless to say, I would want this to be a mother cracker of a device, one that would certainly serve its purpose for 10 years. Wishful thinking on my part I'm sure.

[Bonzo]

Feb 10, 2016 19:26:49 GMT -5 Axis said:

Everyone....

Grow up !

Uh bouy.

Does anyone have a mirror for axis?

[Bonzo]

Feb 10, 2016 18:54:51 GMT -5 Axis said:

Feb 10, 2016 18:44:09 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

I don't know completely.

I only know what has been told to us about the XMR-1, which is the discussion of this thread, and it is supposedly not past basically what I would call the idea or pre-planning stage. That info may be totally bogus or it may not. But if that information is true, I wouldn't bet $1.00 the XMR-1 will be out and about in 2016 (like many others here had hypothesized and hoped for) let alone 2017.

To elaborate on your question, if I were just guessing, I'd say first they want and need to get these new Gen 3 amps, speakers and the Emersa stuff up and going ASAP. I'd guess that's their current #1 priority. It's a big job. After that, since they have also said things about a new entry level line, I would guess that would come next. Depending on how far along that is and based on past history, I'd guess, what, maybe the end of the year?

All a guess of course. But remember, the XMC-1 was "right around the corner" for how many years? Even after it was built the testing took a long long time. Let's not forget that the XPR amp line was discontinued, and I believe it might have been Keith that said there were no current plans for direct replacement. If the full blown reference amps went away, it would be a very easy evolution to have a non-existent full blown processor go away. Emotiva changes their mind at the drop of hat, so to say the XMR-1 is a sure lock for production is, well, wishful thinking at this point I think.

Bonzo, read my last post in the Thread "Worth it ?". I just posted the answer to that question there. It is a Line called Base X. Remember the Stones song "You Can't Always Get What You Want" ? "But if you try sometimes, you get what you need".

Bonzo, did you know about Base X. If not, what else do you not know. Something better than what you thought may be just around the corner and it is what you need.

emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/45884/worth

What you are calling Base X is exactly what I referred to in my post above as their new entry level line, which I'm guessing will be their next priority after the gen 3, speakers and Emersa. What's your point?

[Bonzo]

Feb 10, 2016 19:24:33 GMT -5 klinemj said:

..we're saying the same thing. Their products are inexpensive for what you get...that is value (benefit divided by price...). And for me, this is true on amps, speakers, DAC's, pre-amps, AND processors. Others may differ in opinions.

Mark

Agreed. I just think the $5000+ area is a strange new territory for the brand. Kind of like if Hyundai came out with a sports car that beats a Veyron for only $200,000. It would be a tremendous value in comparison, but still too far out of reach for the average man, and carrying a moniker that people buying Lamborghini's etc wouldn't even think to buy. Right or wrong I just don't know if it would fly. But we should stop speculating because according to axis we are being childish in doing so.

Out for the night. Cheers.

[klinemj]

Feb 10, 2016 20:51:55 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

Feb 10, 2016 19:24:33 GMT -5 klinemj said:

..we're saying the same thing. Their products are inexpensive for what you get...that is value (benefit divided by price...). And for me, this is true on amps, speakers, DAC's, pre-amps, AND processors. Others may differ in opinions.

Mark

Agreed. I just think the $5000+ area is a strange new territory for the brand. Kind of like if Hyundai came out with a sports car that beats a Veyron for only $200,000. It would be a tremendous value in comparison, but still too far out of reach for the average man, and carrying a moniker that people buying Lamborghini's etc wouldn't even think to buy. Right or wrong I just don't know if it would fly. But we should stop speculating because according to axis we are being childish in doing so.

Out for the night. Cheers.

Kind of like if Honda, Nissan,or Toyota came out with an expensive line of cars, right? Oh, wait, they did...Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus. Of course, they created a new brand name. I wonder what will transpire with Emotiva vs. Emersa vs....? So far, they are different price points and different target markets. Hmmm...

Mark

[Gary Cook]

Feb 10, 2016 17:35:49 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

The problem is, we are talking about processors here, not amps. If I had the funds and the choice, I would personally rather pay $10,000 for a great amp than $5,000 for a processor. The amp could possibly give a life time of quality service. There may be different techniques to go about it, but all amps essentially do the same thing. Some better than others, but basically the same thing. Processors go in and out yearly. Channels, decoders, Wifi, Bluetooth etc. They are constantly on the move.

Precisely, I have around $A5K worth of power amps (XPA-5, XPA-1L's & XPA-100) but $A800 worth of processor (UMC-200). Which is about the right proportion (~6 to 1) for me, as I anticipate the processor lasting about 2 to 3 years and the amps 15 to 20 years. If I spent $5K on a processor I'd expect 15 to 20 years out of it, which is somewhat unrealistic.


Cheers
Gary

[Gary Cook]

Feb 10, 2016 17:43:28 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

.......if the XMC-1 continues to sell well and sales don't drop off and they make a good profit, then and only then do I think we will see an XMR-1.

Disagree with this one
I believe that the demand for an XMC-1 (Gen 2?) that supports 4K, HDMI 2.0, HDCP 2.2, DTS-X and Atmos would be far greater than the demand for an XMR-1. Priority wise it's a no brainer. There's also a replacement for the UMC-200 urgently required, but that I'd hold off until the 4K, HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2 hardware and software is rock solid and affordable.

My view is that an XMR-1 would be way down on the product development priorities, even just in processors alone.


Cheers
Gary

[Axis]

I did a little investigation to see what all the brewhaha was here and why Bonzo has been so angry of late. This all seems to have started Feb 26, 2015. The same day as this thread was started. In a Thread named "XMC-1 update from Big Dan" Dan made a post giving an update on the XMC-1. Folks were asking if there was not a more advanced processor coming and Dan decided to give some information on processors in development. He said there were several in development and one of them would be 16 channels and have Atmos and DTS-X. He named it the new XMR-1. Novisnick saw that and wanted to mate it with his XPR amps so they could have babies. Nick started this thread with "is it soup yet" and here we are.

Along with the processor in development that was named XMR-1 was another that was not named. It was a baby 7.1 processor that was 1R tall and had 1R tall amps to go with it. Sound familiar ?

There was some discussion of the price on this top of the line unit named XMR-1 and Dan came back to give everyone the anticipated price at right at $5000.

That was a year ago and the 1R tall Emersa 7.1 processor and amps were on display at CES 2016. Lonnie told a participant at CES that final testing was being performed on the Emersa 7.1 and they should be released second quarter of this year. If you can not hold it in, go use the bathroom. Just because something is not released and available when you expect it to be does not mean that it was all a lie.

Now back to one of the other processor in development that Dan spoke of Feb 26, 2016. I think the one that was not spoke of is the Base X processor that they said in the podcast will be coming out promptly after the Emersa line. They did not say the end of 2016 or 2017 like Bonzo said. This taking a stab at Emotiva with they are never on time because of the XMC-1 is getting old.

So the processor named XMR-1 is no more because they discontinued the XPR amplifiers ? Is this the logic ? Are you upset that you have not heard any definite information about this ? Has this effected your life in a negative way and caused you harm ?

I sure hope you are not stressing about this. This is just beginning. You are not going to miss anything. Yes there are very rich people that will have 16 channels and Atmos in there home before you do. You will just have to live with that.

Myself, I got lucky and the processor I want from Emotiva is soon to be released. I wish the Emersa 7.1 was only 5.1 but you can't win them all.