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Post by cowanrg on Aug 13, 2015 11:54:17 GMT -5
Hello everyone. I have a pair of Dali Helicon 400 MK2s that I'm currently driving with a Peachtree Nova integrated. It's not the greatest combination. The speakers could use quite a bit more power and control. Based on reviews and such, I came across Emotiva. I'm looking to replace the Peachtree completely with a MiniDSP DDRC-22DA (as a preamp, DAC, and room correction). I will use the digital inputs from a Sonos ZP90 (all music) or XBox One (television and movies). The output is balanced analog out.
I was looking at the XPA-1L, simply because of the balanced design, class A operation, and the reviews. The XPA-1 could also be a potential as well, but it seems like I wouldn't get much more for the price. Also, my current listening room isn't terribly large (maybe 15'x15' with some openings) and I sit about 10' back from the speakers. Does anyone have thoughts between the XPA-1, XPA-1L, or even the XPR-2, or SA-250?
I'm also considering upgrading speakers down the road, if I ever get a bigger room (which could happen within the next year). One of the speakers I'm looking at is the Magnepan 20.1. I've owned Tympanis in the past and they like power. If I go that route, I would bi-amp.
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Post by brutiarti on Aug 13, 2015 12:23:56 GMT -5
Hello everyone. I have a pair of Dali Helicon 400 MK2s that I'm currently driving with a Peachtree Nova integrated. It's not the greatest combination. The speakers could use quite a bit more power and control. Based on reviews and such, I came across Emotiva. I'm looking to replace the Peachtree completely with a MiniDSP DDRC-22DA (as a preamp, DAC, and room correction). I will use the digital inputs from a Sonos ZP90 (all music) or XBox One (television and movies). The output is balanced analog out. I was looking at the XPA-1L, simply because of the balanced design, class A operation, and the reviews. The XPA-1 could also be a potential as well, but it seems like I wouldn't get much more for the price. Also, my current listening room isn't terribly large (maybe 15'x15' with some openings) and I sit about 10' back from the speakers. Does anyone have thoughts between the XPA-1, XPA-1L, or even the XPR-2, or SA-250? I'm also considering upgrading speakers down the road, if I ever get a bigger room (which could happen within the next year). One of the speakers I'm looking at is the Magnepan 20.1. I've owned Tympanis in the past and they like power. If I go that route, I would bi-amp. I run the Helicon's 300 with an XPR-2, the XPA-2 wasn't a good match but i never tried the XPA-1's. I will go with the XPR-1's and don't look back, specially if you are gonna get a bigger room. |
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Post by Bonzo on Aug 13, 2015 12:28:18 GMT -5
One of the speakers I'm looking at is the Magnepan 20.1. If I go that route, I would bi-amp. If you can afford Magnepan 20's, then why not just go all the way and get XPA-1's or XPR-1's? |
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Post by cowanrg on Aug 13, 2015 12:31:59 GMT -5
So, you're saying that the Helicons really need 1500 watts per channel. Come on, let's be realistic. It seems whenever someone asks for a recommendation of an amp, the first response is "go for the XPR-1". Why did you end up with the XPR-2? Why didn't you get the XPR-1 ;-)
They're too big and too bulky for my current setup. And if I end up getting the maggies, I would rather bi-amp than have two massive monos. Plus, I'm not looking to spend $3700.
What about the XPA-2 wasn't a good match? It's not an amp I'm considering, but I'm curious what didn't work well with the Helicons.
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Post by cowanrg on Aug 13, 2015 12:33:55 GMT -5
One of the speakers I'm looking at is the Magnepan 20.1. If I go that route, I would bi-amp. If you can afford Magnepan 20's, then why not just go all the way and get XPA-1's or XPR-1's? Being able to afford something doesn't mean it will be better. I'm good friends with a dealer, so I could get them for a good price. It's between those or the 3.7, depending on what my new room looks like. But I also might keep the Helicons. Just not sure. I think the 20.1 might warrant the XRP-1, but I don't think it's really going to make a huge difference with the Helicons. They're not really difficult to drive, they just like a bit more power than I have. |
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Post by brutiarti on Aug 13, 2015 12:35:44 GMT -5
So, you're saying that the Helicons really need 1500 watts per channel. Come on, let's be realistic. It seems whenever someone asks for a recommendation of an amp, the first response is "go for the XPR-1". Why did you end up with the XPR-2? Why didn't you get the XPR-1 ;-) They're too big and too bulky for my current setup. And if I end up getting the maggies, I would rather bi-amp than have two massive monos. Plus, I'm not looking to spend $3700. What about the XPA-2 wasn't a good match? It's not an amp I'm considering, but I'm curious what didn't work well with the Helicons. If you know what you want/need, i wouldn't waste my time coming to a forum for advice. |
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Post by cowanrg on Aug 13, 2015 12:37:24 GMT -5
So, you're saying that the Helicons really need 1500 watts per channel. Come on, let's be realistic. It seems whenever someone asks for a recommendation of an amp, the first response is "go for the XPR-1". Why did you end up with the XPR-2? Why didn't you get the XPR-1 ;-) They're too big and too bulky for my current setup. And if I end up getting the maggies, I would rather bi-amp than have two massive monos. Plus, I'm not looking to spend $3700. What about the XPA-2 wasn't a good match? It's not an amp I'm considering, but I'm curious what didn't work well with the Helicons. If you know what you want/need, i wouldn't waste your time coming to a forum for advice. My fault, maybe I should have stated that the XPR-1 wasn't something I was looking at. I guess I assumed they'd be overkill. Am I wrong? Can you still state why you felt the XPA-2 didn't work well with your 300s? |
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Post by GreenKiwi on Aug 13, 2015 12:42:28 GMT -5
Wow! the 20.Xs are my dream speakers... if you can get them over the 3.7's definitely do so.
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Post by cowanrg on Aug 13, 2015 12:45:27 GMT -5
Wow! the 20.Xs are my dream speakers... if you can get them over the 3.7's definitely do so. Yeah, right now I'm just thinking it through. I just don't want to end up with an amp or pair of amps that I'd need to later upgrade. I figured if I got the XPA-1Ls or something, I could always use those on the highs for the panels and then get something else for the lows. But at this point, I'd need a much bigger room for the maggies. |
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Post by brutiarti on Aug 13, 2015 12:49:21 GMT -5
If you know what you want/need, i wouldn't waste your time coming to a forum for advice. My fault, maybe I should have stated that the XPR-1 wasn't something I was looking at. I guess I assumed they'd be overkill. Am I wrong? Can you still state why you felt the XPA-2 didn't work well with your 300s? Ok, no problem. Let me explain why i recommend the XPR-1's then. I run a pair of Ikon's with a Parasound A23 and it was a really nice match. But when i upgraded to the Helicon bookshelfs the A23 couldn't handle those speakers, the bass was all over the place and it sounded constrained and muffled (strange for a set of speakers with dual tweeter), remember that they are 4 ohm with 86db sensitivity. So i decided to take on the XPA-2, the bass was controlled now but the highs were edgy and some harshness was felt (the dual tweeter emphasized that). SO i ended with the XPR-2, everything was right with that amp, tight bass and smooth highs. I will totally go for the XPR'1 if my room was bigger and my speakers were floorstanding (helicon 400 or 800). At the end, you can try at no risk with emotiva, well maybe the shipping charges will be the only expense. |
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Post by garbulky on Aug 13, 2015 12:55:41 GMT -5
Well your mistake is running $6300 speakers with decent but entry level electronics. Your reasoning for less power not more than XPA-1 L is based on theory and extrapolation. I recommend actually auditioning the amps and equipment that I suggest before dismissing it - especially the pre amp! It makes a difference. I have yet to find a digital DAC pre amp combo that produces anything like the solid soundstage and dynamics of a real pre-amp. I've not been terribly enamored with room correction. But if you feel you need it, it's up to you. To get the best sound, price high but all made of good value for money. Schiit Ygdrassil (revolutionary DAC) . XSP-1. (OR audio GD HE-1 preamp - but really expensive.) XPA-1 Gen 2's. Another cheaper option Oppo 105 or used Oppo 95 (for DAC capabilities), XSP-1, XPA-1 gen 2's. I think the XPA-1 L would work. But look you need to go XPA-1 gen2's. With the maggies you can bi amp with two XPA-1 gen 2's. Go used with these amps and you can save.  |
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Post by cowanrg on Aug 13, 2015 12:58:21 GMT -5
My fault, maybe I should have stated that the XPR-1 wasn't something I was looking at. I guess I assumed they'd be overkill. Am I wrong? Can you still state why you felt the XPA-2 didn't work well with your 300s? Ok, no problem. Let me explain why i recommend the XPR-1's then. I run a pair of Ikon's with a Parasound A23 and it was a really nice match. But when i upgraded to the Helicon bookshelfs the A23 couldn't handle those speakers, the bass was all over the place and it sounded constrained and muffled (strange for a set of speakers with dual tweeter), remember that they are 4 ohm with 86db sensitivity. So i decided to take on the XPA-2, the bass was controlled now but the highs were edgy and some harshness was felt (the dual tweeter emphasized that). SO i ended with the XPR-2, everything was right with that amp, tight bass and smooth highs. I will totally go for the XPR'1 if my room was bigger and my speakers were floorstanding (helicon 400 or 800). At the end, you can try at no risk with emotiva, well maybe the shipping charges will be the only expense. That helps, thanks. I've heard that the XPA series can be a bit harsh on the top end, and the dual tweeters can make that stand out. I am getting a bit of that from my Peachtree. That's ultimately why I was thinking of the XPA-1L, since it's a bit different. I guess I'm really looking hard at the XPA-1L since it's a balanced design (it seems only the monoblocks have a true balanced design) and I'd be running a full balanced system. I'm wondering if this would gain me anything versus spending the extra on the XPR-2? |
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Post by cowanrg on Aug 13, 2015 13:05:53 GMT -5
Well your mistake is running $6300 speakers with decent but entry level electronics. Your reasoning for less power not more than XPA-1 L is based on theory and extrapolation. I recommend actually auditioning the amps and equipment that I suggest before dismissing it - especially the pre amp! I've not been terribly enamored with room correction. But if you feel you need it, it's up to you. To get the best sound, price high but all made of good value for money. Schiit Ygdrassil (revolutionary DAC) . XSP-1. (OR audio GD HE-1 preamp - but really expensive.) XPA-1 Gen 2's. Another cheaper option Oppo 105 or used Oppo 95 (for DAC capabilities), XSP-1, XPA-1 gen 2's. I think the XPA-1 L would work. But look you need to go XPA-1 gen2's. With the maggies you can bi amp with two XPA-1 gen 2's. Go used with these amps and you can save. Yeah yeah, I know the speakers aren't with the right equipment. Back in the days I was an audio dealer and I had access to a lot of gear. Over the years, other hobbies replaced my interest in 2 channel audio, and I sold off most of my gear other than the speakers. I used to run the speakers with custom built class D amps (based on Hypex modules). I also had a pair of JL Audio Fathom F113s. But, I don't want to fuss over the system anymore, I just want something that sounds good. I'm familiar with your suggestions, but I have no real need for analog components. My only sources are digital and I'd rather keep it digital until I get to the amps. The XSP-1 looks nice, but I have no analog sources. Room correction can be very interesting. My old setup used a silent HTPC that ran a Lynx sound card and realtime audio processing. It was pretty magic :-) I get that some people don't like room correction or DSP, it's not for everyone. So, I keep hearing to get the XPA-1 over the XPA-1L. Is the only real difference power output? They seem very similar. |
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Post by brutiarti on Aug 13, 2015 13:09:30 GMT -5
Probably you can try the XPA1-L's at no risk and maybe you would like them. But if the upgrade bug comes is gonna cost you more at the end. What i know is that those speakers will show your weak links, like garbulky mentioned about matching expensive speakers with so-so electronics. The helicon's made me realize my system's weak links, at the time was my source and room acoustics. All fixed now  |
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Post by cowanrg on Aug 13, 2015 13:15:26 GMT -5
Well, yeah. the Peachtree is good for what it is, but not in the same league as the Helicons. I'm going to try out the MiniDSP Dirac unit and see what happens. I'm not fully convinced about anything, but of all the systems I've heard, the best have not been the most expensive. I don't necessarily believe in throwing money at the problem. I feel like the main issue I'm having right now is using an integrated amp with less than 100 watts per channel (I have the older version, not the 125W version). The Helicons sounded wonderful when they had 400W of power on top and bottom per speaker.
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Post by brutiarti on Aug 13, 2015 13:21:29 GMT -5
I mean we are not recommending a pair of Krell monoblocks with a 15K price tag each. But at the end is just not only power, for example I heard good things about a 35W tube monoblocks from Bob Latino
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Post by cowanrg on Aug 13, 2015 13:31:39 GMT -5
I mean we are not recommending a pair of Krell monoblocks with a 15K price tag each. But at the end is just not only power, for example I heard good things about a 35W tube monoblocks from Bob Latino Oh, I realize. I was a dealer previously (Dali dealer too...) and I also sold Esoteric, MIT Cables, etc. I know the high end. Truth is, you don't gain a whole lot by going up that high. It's almost stressful getting the itch to upgrade. You constantly worry about how an extra $5k can get you 2% better performance. I don't want that. I want something that sounds good, doesn't have obvious problems, and doesn't take up my whole room. I have other money pits other than audio ;-) I'm kinda curious about XPA-1 versus the XPR-2. I've heard everything from 'there's no real sonic difference between the XPA and XPR series, to what you said about them sounding very different. I understand every speaker/system is different, but demoing both isn't really much of an option. |
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Post by brutiarti on Aug 13, 2015 13:42:12 GMT -5
I mean we are not recommending a pair of Krell monoblocks with a 15K price tag each. But at the end is just not only power, for example I heard good things about a 35W tube monoblocks from Bob Latino Oh, I realize. I was a dealer previously (Dali dealer too...) and I also sold Esoteric, MIT Cables, etc. I know the high end. Truth is, you don't gain a whole lot by going up that high. It's almost stressful getting the itch to upgrade. You constantly worry about how an extra $5k can get you 2% better performance. I don't want that. I want something that sounds good, doesn't have obvious problems, and doesn't take up my whole room. I have other money pits other than audio ;-) I'm kinda curious about XPA-1 versus the XPR-2. I've heard everything from 'there's no real sonic difference between the XPA and XPR series, to what you said about them sounding very different. I understand every speaker/system is different, but demoing both isn't really much of an option. I agree with you about expensive audio stuff, is just crazy. For my enthusiast ears i don't think you can get any better than emo reference line of amps, probably a lot of people that like high-end will disagree. I mean, you always will find both opposite sides for a product, you are gonna have is "dark sounding" other will say is "forward sounding" on the same product, so the only option is a demo with your own equipment and room. I just share my experience as i have the helicon speakers, but maybe you will totally ok with the XPA1-L, so that's why is a tough situation if you cannot demo before you settle on something |
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Post by cowanrg on Aug 13, 2015 13:56:02 GMT -5
Yeah, that's what I'm coming up against. It doesn't sound like the reference series is 'always' better. In some systems, there's a benefit, in others, not. The Helicons are a bit more revealing with a good amp, where magnepans tend to care more about the upstream components. I think I'll wait for a sale or see what shows up on the used market. It seems like an XPR-2 might be the way to go.
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Post by brutiarti on Aug 13, 2015 14:10:39 GMT -5
Yeah, that's what I'm coming up against. It doesn't sound like the reference series is 'always' better. In some systems, there's a benefit, in others, not. The Helicons are a bit more revealing with a good amp, where magnepans tend to care more about the upstream components. I think I'll wait for a sale or see what shows up on the used market. It seems like an XPR-2 might be the way to go. I think you will not regret getting an XPR-2. And just for reference i tried vintage integrated solid state amps and the sound was very bad. |
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