|
|
Post by jdubs on Sept 2, 2015 7:35:15 GMT -5
**Update**
If traded some emails with Nick Lemons of Stereo Integrity. He makes an HTS-11 that is built specifically for small, sealed box applications... right up my alley. Also, they don't break the bank so it would be an affordable build. He claims an F3 of 30 hz in the cabinet I describe, which isn't bad for a sealed cabinet.
Looks like a 12" tube with an internal height of 13" would fit the bill. I would build it downfiring with about 4" feet. Since it's in a 12" tube (can't be bigger) and it's an 11" driver, there is not enough room left for feet. I'd probably cut the baffle extra large (like 14" circumference, depending on the size of the feet). I'd go "passive" style and get an external amplifier with a gain control.
Thoughts?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 8:50:36 GMT -5
Nick knows his stuff and those hst subs are monsters. I keep thinking about building a couple dual opposed with those 11" to use as ottommans.
|
|
KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,273
|
Post by KeithL on Sept 2, 2015 8:59:35 GMT -5
although what keith has to say is all true, there is a huge network of very skilled diy'ers out there to help in the design of your diy sub and you can get some damn good sound for a reasonable amount of money, and the satisfaction that you built it yourself. for me, diy speaker building is not only a hobby, but is also a means to an end. that end being the design of cabinetry that resembles our amish built furniture and making the wife very very happy. (see picture) personally i like the Dayton 15" ultramax subs in a 3 cubic foot box which gives an f3 of about 34hz with an f6 at about 25hz. quite prodigious bass in an average sized room. i say go for it and enjoy the process. it is like buying a truck. once done you never look back.  I gotta say - your cabinets are gorgeous. I miss the old days when most speakers had wood cabinets - and real wood (at least real wood veneer and not plastic) was available on most (frequently as an option for a few extra bucks). I'm one of those people who always paid the extra to get the "real wood version". Nowadays, a real wood finish is too expensive for economy speakers, the cheap wood grain plastic seems to have gotten less realistic looking, and even many of the higher-end speakers that do have real wood cabinets use such a hard high gloss finish that they look like Formica (you can't see into the grain with most of them like you can with "proper" varnished wood.) I don't think I've seen a commercial speaker with a real oiled walnut or oak finish in years. (Apparently we're in a minority with even appreciating wood, because a lot of people seem to like gloss black, which has never been my first choice for speakers.) (My whole point there was that DIY speakers may be a great thing for people who do enjoy the process.... but for someone who doesn't especially like building things, and is considering doing it just to save a few bucks, it's probably not such a great idea. And, yes, I do speak from personal experience on a lot of this. Back in my youth I actually designed and built several speakers, more for the fun of saying that it was my design than actually trying to save money. And I ended up with several speakers that actually worked pretty well. However, since, as I might have mentioned, I personally hate woodworking, they all ended their lives as the sound system in my workshop - because I always found some excuse to avoid the woodworking necessary to finish off the cabinets once the "fun" design part of the project was done. Instead, I was one of those people who built "a prototype cabinet" out of bare chipboard, and then never went back and built "the nice final wood version"; so I always ended up with really great sounding (but ugly) speakers in my workshop, and nice looking commercial speakers in the living room. And the alternative - to pay someone who liked woodworking to finish the boxes for me - would have cost far more than simply buying finished speakers.) |
|
|
|
Post by trevordj on Sept 2, 2015 9:47:23 GMT -5
**Update** If traded some emails with Nick Lemons of Stereo Integrity. He makes an HTS-11 that is built specifically for small, sealed box applications... right up my alley. Also, they don't break the bank so it would be an affordable build. He claims an F3 of 30 hz in the cabinet I describe, which isn't bad for a sealed cabinet. Looks like a 12" tube with an internal height of 13" would fit the bill. I would build it downfiring with about 4" feet. Since it's in a 12" tube (can't be bigger) and it's an 11" driver, there is not enough room left for feet. I'd probably cut the baffle extra large (like 14" circumference, depending on the size of the feet). I'd go "passive" style and get an external amplifier with a gain control. Thoughts? Great choice! I have two HST11s that I will be putting in a spare bedroom. Any idea which amplifier you are going to go with? The speakers are very inefficient, especially in a small sealed enclosure, so you are going to need a lot of power. |
|
|
|
Post by jdubs on Sept 2, 2015 10:49:31 GMT -5
fattykid- yeah, he recommended dual opposed, but I said I needed 2 separate cabinets but NOT 4 subwoofers!
trevordj- I'm not sure yet on the amp, but I did see the power rating and impedance! Probably a Crown of some iteration.
|
|
|
|
Post by trevordj on Sept 2, 2015 12:33:58 GMT -5
Something to keep in mind with the Crown XLS series: they have a rolloff starting just above 20hz at about 12db/octave. These may not be the best choice for a small sealed design. Behringer inukes also have a rolloff but some have posted some modifications you can do that will fix that (if you are comfortable with such things... I would not be). Also, with the inuke you will have to think about a fan modification if the unit will be located in your listening area (they are loud). Depending on your budget you may look at Lab Gruppen FP series. I initially purchased Crown XLS series for my HST subs but after learning about their rolloff in the ULF frequencies, I returned them. I purchased Speakerpower amplifiers from Seaton Sound. They were more expensive, but they put out a ton more power, are quiet, and are flat to around 2hz. I went with the SP1-4000 to power the two HST11s. In my living room I have two SP2-8000s, one to power four HST15s and the other to power four HST18s.  |
|
|
|
Post by jdubs on Sept 2, 2015 13:02:59 GMT -5
trevordj, good advice. Thanks!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2015 13:30:41 GMT -5
Yes stay away from the xls series for driving subs.. they not only roll off but apparently go into some sort of protection when asked to deliver rated power at low frequencies. I use LG fp series clone amps to run my subs.. no issues as of yet.
|
|
|
|
Post by tchaik on Sept 2, 2015 22:47:45 GMT -5
although what keith has to say is all true, there is a huge network of very skilled diy'ers out there to help in the design of your diy sub and you can get some damn good sound for a reasonable amount of money, and the satisfaction that you built it yourself. for me, diy speaker building is not only a hobby, but is also a means to an end. that end being the design of cabinetry that resembles our amish built furniture and making the wife very very happy. (see picture) personally i like the Dayton 15" ultramax subs in a 3 cubic foot box which gives an f3 of about 34hz with an f6 at about 25hz. quite prodigious bass in an average sized room. i say go for it and enjoy the process. it is like buying a truck. once done you never look back. I gotta say - your cabinets are gorgeous. I miss the old days when most speakers had wood cabinets - and real wood (at least real wood veneer and not plastic) was available on most (frequently as an option for a few extra bucks). I'm one of those people who always paid the extra to get the "real wood version". Nowadays, a real wood finish is too expensive for economy speakers, the cheap wood grain plastic seems to have gotten less realistic looking, and even many of the higher-end speakers that do have real wood cabinets use such a hard high gloss finish that they look like Formica (you can't see into the grain with most of them like you can with "proper" varnished wood.) I don't think I've seen a commercial speaker with a real oiled walnut or oak finish in years. (Apparently we're in a minority with even appreciating wood, because a lot of people seem to like gloss black, which has never been my first choice for speakers.) (My whole point there was that DIY speakers may be a great thing for people who do enjoy the process.... but for someone who doesn't especially like building things, and is considering doing it just to save a few bucks, it's probably not such a great idea. And, yes, I do speak from personal experience on a lot of this. Back in my youth I actually designed and built several speakers, more for the fun of saying that it was my design than actually trying to save money. And I ended up with several speakers that actually worked pretty well. However, since, as I might have mentioned, I personally hate woodworking, they all ended their lives as the sound system in my workshop - because I always found some excuse to avoid the woodworking necessary to finish off the cabinets once the "fun" design part of the project was done. Instead, I was one of those people who built "a prototype cabinet" out of bare chipboard, and then never went back and built "the nice final wood version"; so I always ended up with really great sounding (but ugly) speakers in my workshop, and nice looking commercial speakers in the living room. And the alternative - to pay someone who liked woodworking to finish the boxes for me - would have cost far more than simply buying finished speakers.) kieth, thanks for the nice comments on my cabinetry. i actually love the woodworking part….. i make the cabinets out of mdf and use a high quality veneer while i have about 350 board feet of rough cut oak that i use for trim work on the speakers as well as other non speaker projects. btw….the cabinet that the tv and equipment sit in is is solid oak and also custom built by me. so the speaker building serves two passionate loves of mine. music and woodworking. i agree, if one doesn't enjoy the building and finishing part, it is best to go with one of the many other manufactures of subs that are out there with designs already properly executed. |
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Sept 3, 2015 0:09:20 GMT -5
I always ended up with really great sounding (but ugly) speakers in my workshop, and nice looking commercial speakers in the living room. Have you been peaking in my garage Keith  Cheers Gary |
|
|
|
Post by jdubs on Sept 4, 2015 18:15:00 GMT -5
The Seaton Sound website is under construction and it is difficult to find online retailers for Lab Gruppen. Any help? I'm afraid the affordability of these subs might be more than offset by how much power I need to feed them!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2015 18:42:05 GMT -5
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2015 18:45:42 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by trevordj on Sept 5, 2015 11:01:29 GMT -5
Take a look at SpeakerPower's website: www.speakerpower.net/rack-mount-models.htmlAlso take a look at SpeakerPower's specs compared to other pro style amplifiers: www.speakerpower.net/comparative-performance.htmlThey are made in the USA and well built. The LG clones are also very nice but the quality is still a bit of a gamble. SpeakerPower has prices listed on their website, you can purchase directly from them as well. You will get a better price if you go through Seaton. I just emailed Mark directly (and called him). The SpeakerPower amplifiers are built to order so it took about 2 months for me to get them after I ordered. www.speakerpower.net/order.htmlFor example, my SP1-4000 was $1625 purchased from Mark Seaton vs. $1961 on sale through SpeakerPower. The most cost effective way to go would be to get a Behringer inuke 6000DSP and call it a day. The cost is almost an order of magnitude lower at around $400. Sure, they do not put out rated power for more than a fraction of a second but they are ubiquitously used for DIY subs with good success. |
|
|
|
Post by knucklehead on Sept 5, 2015 13:10:34 GMT -5
I decided to do some DIY sealed subs about 6-7 years ago after spotting some ready-made cabinets for sale. Since the hard work was already done I think of them as half a DIY project. They were originally made for the M&K model 1280 subwoofer (IIRC) with their dual 12" driver cabinets. I was going to try to find the M&K drivers to install but after finding the prices that were asked for them I decided to find a single driver that would work in each of the two cabinets I bought - so blocking one large hole was called for. I ended up buying a pair of Peerless XXLS 12" drivers at a great price. I can't believe how much those have risen in price! I paid less than that for a pair! I also bought one Dayton plate amp for each sub - and since the cabinets had not been cut out for a plate amp I cut the holes myself and they fit perfect. By the time I collected everything I was into this DIY project for about $650. Not too bad - especially for the sound I get from them. And they can be used as end tables. I have one sitting in the entry way with a table lamp on it! I have to recenter the lamp from time to time. The plate amps are no longer sold by PE - they are 240w class A/B power without boost. Plenty of power for what I was looking for - I wasn't going for SPL - I was going for accurate musical lows. I got that! And better than I had expected. Every sub I had prior to these two subs were ported. Good subs but not great sounding - especially for music. Since the cabinets were 59 liters volume I had to cut them down to 48 liters per the modeling software WinISD Pro mapped out for the Peerless drivers. I cut the volume down by gluing and screwing in some pieces of 4x4" wood to take up the extra internal volume. After mounting the drivers and wiring them up I stuffed the insides with lots of polyfil - pillow stuffing! I cut two 14" rounds from 5/8" plywood and glued and screwed the hole where the bottom driver would have been - making sure it was sealed - I didn't want dual 'farting' subs! Leaks aren't permissible - especially with a sealed sub. As an extra precausion I placed a 2x4 over each round and put lag screws into each end to prevent the plywood from becoming a radiating surface. I ended up with a pair of sealed subs that are IMO very accurate from 120hz and lower - but they are always cut off at 80hz. Now that I have some main speakers that don't need help in the lows I seldom use them except for movies. They roll off at 35hz (down 2db) but its a slow roll off so they contribute - helping the Elemental Designs A5-350 for movies. Hearing a cello bow skipping across the low strings still sends a chill up my spine. Never heard that with any of the ported subs I had prior to owning these two subs.  |
|
|
|
Post by Darksky on Sept 5, 2015 18:09:38 GMT -5
 One of the things that I believe has been overlooked about the DIY option is getting a sub or set of subs that look exactly like you want them. IMHO a lot of subs are not very nice looking, most big grey/black boxes don't belong in a room with nice furniture. I am not blessed enough to have a dedicated theater room, my theater is my family room and as such, my speakers have to be furniture grade. By doing DIY, I was able to get exactly what I wanted. I also feel that while you want to establish a value for your time, I find it easier to part with my time than my money. I was able to build my Rythmik CI subs for a substantial savings over the cost of the finished version. Mine are much prettier to boot.   |
|
|
|
Post by jdubs on Sept 5, 2015 18:34:15 GMT -5
This thread has a ton of great info! Thanks.
|
|
|
|
Post by novisnick on Sept 5, 2015 19:49:55 GMT -5
One of the things that I believe has been overlooked about the DIY option is getting a sub or set of subs that look exactly like you want them. IMHO a lot of subs are not very nice looking, most big grey/black boxes don't belong in a room with nice furniture. I am not blessed enough to have a dedicated theater room, my theater is my family room and as such, my speakers have to be furniture grade. By doing DIY, I was able to get exactly what I wanted. I also feel that while you want to establish a value for your time, I find it easier to part with my time than my money. I was able to build my Rythmik CI subs for a substantial savings over the cost of the finished version. Mine are much prettier to boot. Stunning artistry of a true craftsman! |
|
|
|
Post by flamethrower1 on Sept 5, 2015 20:48:23 GMT -5
One of the things that I believe has been overlooked about the DIY option is getting a sub or set of subs that look exactly like you want them. IMHO a lot of subs are not very nice looking, most big grey/black boxes don't belong in a room with nice furniture. I am not blessed enough to have a dedicated theater room, my theater is my family room and as such, my speakers have to be furniture grade. By doing DIY, I was able to get exactly what I wanted. I also feel that while you want to establish a value for your time, I find it easier to part with my time than my money. I was able to build my Rythmik CI subs for a substantial savings over the cost of the finished version. Mine are much prettier to boot. Whoa those are sexy,nice job, what brand of drivers are those? |
|
|
|
Post by sandtrooper on Sept 5, 2015 23:16:53 GMT -5
|
|
