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Post by garbulky on Sept 4, 2015 23:25:06 GMT -5
Keith I want to thank you for an increibly transparent post. That speaks volumes to me. I haven;t see any other company do this (their loss!). And also no other employee confidently quote real problems in their product. My props to you Sir. You remain an unusual beacon of hope in a corperate world. I remain a fan. I think Emotiva landed on a gem with ya!
Also igorzep, it's clear that you are not making stuff up. I would like to mention, but politely, that this appears to be a real issue but one that doesn't bug a whole lot of people. I don't own an XMC-1 and I have experienced my own share of Emotiva bugs. So I appreciate your dedication on bringing this to light. This only helps give Emotiva the chance to improve. But having said that, there is the real chance that nothing will be done. I'm sorry if that bugs you. I do hope they will fix it but I have no strong hope. I think that majority of users will not care and me neither if I get an XMC-1. Bu I agree that proper functioning is something that needs to be strived towards but with the realistic expectation that if not a lot of people suffer from these problems....it is not a problem. I know that sounds but real money is real money. And in real life large companies don't give a #@#!@, though Emotiva appears to break the mold.
And just to qualify I have had problems with my XDA-1 and its lossy volume control and limited USB chip set. And I still love that DAC no matter what!
Hope this helps.
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Post by fbczar on Sept 5, 2015 0:06:33 GMT -5
I'm saying don't use "we" as if you're speaking for everyone, as though this problem exists for everyone. It doesn't. The problem exists with every XMC-1 unit. KeithL knows about it and confirmed it. 37 people voted that all kinds of those clicking/popping problems are disturbing for them! And this is only those who know about this forum and bothered to find the topic and vote. So I have all right to use "WE". igorzep, The "problem" does not exist with every XMC-1. I own an XMC-1 and I have never experienced anything like you describe. Like the others here I hope Emotiva can find a way to help you, but you are out of line to tell folks who have no problem that they have one, jut like I would be out of line to tell you no problem exists for you. |
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Post by markc on Sept 5, 2015 2:13:44 GMT -5
fbczar said:
igorzep, The "problem" does not exist with every XMC-1. I own an XMC-1 and I have never experienced anything like you describe. Like the others here I hope Emotiva can find a way to help you, but you are out of line to tell folks who have no problem that they have one, jut like I would be out of line to tell you no problem exists for you.
> As this is all coming out as an unpleasant "Igorzep bashing" set of replies I will add in my bit.
I too have the "wibbles and warbles and chirps" heard under certain circumstances with my XMC-1.
fbczar, the problem DOES exist with every XMC-1 as KeithL above explained. There is a digital to analogue transcoding problem which is not merely present in my opinion, or in Igorzep's opinion but is an accepted and acknowledged fact.
Igorzep is not telling folks like you that you have a problem so don't get so offended. He is not out of line therefore. He is telling folks like you that your XMC-1 has a problem. You may or may not get to experience that problem depending on whether your system will allow you to input a pure digital silent signal and whether you have any sources that output it.
Those of us affected by it are not doing anything weird or wacky or unusual or using bizarre sources or sound files or test files. We are getting it by connecting regular equipment to the XMC-1 and configuring everything in a sensible way.
It may not present itself for every user, such as you, or even the very vocal nickwin and geebo (who seem to both be denying that the fault is significant simply because the fault does not present itself to them.)
The main time I get the problem is navigating the PS3 menu (probably digital zero's being produced in between the confirmation sound played each time the cursor moves) but I have also heard it between tracks on ripped CD albums (I can't remember which).
I haven't noticed any impact of this whilst listening to any music or movie file playing so it simply remains an irritation that I wish were not there.
Actually, it simply is something that just should not be there.
It is a fault.
It is, as KeithL confirmed above, something he has reproduced which is to do with the way the XMC-1 handles the legitimately coded incoming digital signal and is not a problem with the device outputting it. Digital silence is a legitimate signal (and one might even say it is one of the holy grails of audio!) and something about it confounds the XMC-1 and it corrupts the pure silent signal and outputs sounds audible even at reasonable listening levels. Your XMC-1 will do this. It is not machine dependant.
I am disheartened to hear that although KeithL has verified that it occurs, the fault is not traceable to anything that Emotiva feels they have power to correct. This means that I will continue to be irritated intermittently and a sad reflection on a piece of audio equipment if it cannot reproduce pure silence inaudibly.
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Post by novisnick on Sept 5, 2015 2:21:50 GMT -5
fbczar said: igorzep, The "problem" does not exist with every XMC-1. I own an XMC-1 and I have never experienced anything like you describe. Like the others here I hope Emotiva can find a way to help you, but you are out of line to tell folks who have no problem that they have one, jut like I would be out of line to tell you no problem exists for you. > As this is all coming out as an unpleasant "Igorzep bashing" set of replies I will add in my bit. I too have the "wibbles and warbles and chirps" heard under certain circumstances with my XMC-1. fbczar, the problem DOES exist with every XMC-1 as KeithL above explained. There is a digital to analogue transcoding problem which is not merely present in my opinion, or in Igorzep's opinion but is an accepted and acknowledged fact. Igorzep is not telling folks like you that you have a problem so don't get so offended. He is telling folks like you that your XMC-1 has a problem. You may or may not get to experience that problem depending on whether your system will allow you to input a pure digital silent signal and whether you have any sources that output it. Those of us affected by it are not doing anything weird or wacky or unusual or using bizarre sources or sound files or test files. We are getting it by connecting regular equipment to the XMC-1 and configuring everything in a sensible way. It may not present itself for every user, such as you, or even the very vocal nickwin and geebo (who seem to both be denying that there is a significant problem simply because the problem does not present itself to them.) The main time I get the problem is navigating the PS3 menu (probably digital zero's being produced in between the confirmation sound played each time the cursor moves) but I have also heard it between tracks on ripped CD albums (I can't remember which). I haven't noticed any impact of this whilst listening to any music or movie file playing so it simply remains an irritation that I wish were not there. Actually, it simply is something that just should not be there. It is a fault. It is, as KeithL confirmed above, something he has reproduced which is to do with the way the XMC-1 handles the legitimately coded incoming digital signal and is not a problem with the device outputting it. Digital silence is a legitimate signal (and one might even say it is one of the holy grails of audio!) and something about it confounds the XMC-1 and it corrupts the pure silent signal and outputs sounds audible even at reasonable listening levels. Your XMC-1 will do this. It is not machine dependant. I am disheartened to hear that although KeithL has verified that it occurs, the fault is not traceable to anything that Emotiva feels they have power to correct. This means that I will continue to be irritated intermittently and a sad reflection on a piece of audio equipment if it cannot reproduce pure silence inaudibly. I just had a though that I believe you stimulated, recalled airbags come to mind,,,,,,,,,,,, please dont laugh! but think about it,,,,,,,,will your be defective when needed or will they deploy properly?? Do you want to find out the hard way or do you just go have it repaired?? Mine have been repaired. No guarantees that mine wouldnt work properly or not but they were in the recall parameters.,,,,,, YMMV  |
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Post by markc on Sept 5, 2015 2:30:16 GMT -5
Novisnick, I think you are alluding to the fact that a problem can be there but latent or not revealed, and you may not find out that it does in fact affect you after all until and when you provide the required conditions.
Is it bad that at this point I am secretly hoping that the "Igorzep dismissers" purchase a new sound source some time soon that presents the conditions necessary for them to experience the wibbles, warbles and chirps of true pure digital "silence" on an XMC-1?
Geebo, Nickwin, Fbczar: Have you thought about buying a new disc spinner? Something with 4K? HDR? A new digital streamer? How about a Sony PS3 with bitstreamed HDMI audio? That one is less far fetched.
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Post by novisnick on Sept 5, 2015 3:09:38 GMT -5
Novisnick, I think you are alluding to the fact that a problem can be there but latent or not revealed, and you may not find out that it does in fact affect you after all until and when you provide the required conditions. Is it bad that at this point I am secretly hoping that the "Igorzep dismissers" purchase a new sound source some time soon that presents the conditions necessary for them to experience the wibbles, warbles and chirps of true pure digital "silence" on an XMC-1? Geebo, Nickwin, Fbczar: Have you thought about buying a new disc spinner? Something with 4K? HDR? A new digital streamer? How about a Sony PS3 with bitstreamed HDMI audio? That one is less far fetched. Yes, it is bad to wish ill to others! Bashing is the same though im not sure that is happening but may be seen as such if one chooses.  |
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Post by geebo on Sept 5, 2015 9:04:35 GMT -5
Novisnick, I think you are alluding to the fact that a problem can be there but latent or not revealed, and you may not find out that it does in fact affect you after all until and when you provide the required conditions. Is it bad that at this point I am secretly hoping that the "Igorzep dismissers" purchase a new sound source some time soon that presents the conditions necessary for them to experience the wibbles, warbles and chirps of true pure digital "silence" on an XMC-1? Geebo, Nickwin, Fbczar: Have you thought about buying a new disc spinner? Something with 4K? HDR? A new digital streamer? How about a Sony PS3 with bitstreamed HDMI audio? That one is less far fetched. Why would I want a new disc spinner? I very happy with my system as it is. If and when Oppo comes out with a 4k player I'll seriously consider it. But what does it have to do with me not experiencing the chirping? |
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs 
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,033
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Post by cawgijoe on Sept 5, 2015 10:13:50 GMT -5
Serious question. With my list of equipment, including. PS3, how do I reproduce a chirp? I have the original Fat PS3, so maybe it doesn't chirp?
If Keith says there is an issue, I believe it, I just don't hear it with my current usage.
Thanks.
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Post by monkumonku on Sept 5, 2015 10:37:23 GMT -5
Novisnick, I think you are alluding to the fact that a problem can be there but latent or not revealed, and you may not find out that it does in fact affect you after all until and when you provide the required conditions. Is it bad that at this point I am secretly hoping that the "Igorzep dismissers" purchase a new sound source some time soon that presents the conditions necessary for them to experience the wibbles, warbles and chirps of true pure digital "silence" on an XMC-1? Geebo, Nickwin, Fbczar: Have you thought about buying a new disc spinner? Something with 4K? HDR? A new digital streamer? How about a Sony PS3 with bitstreamed HDMI audio? That one is less far fetched. I think no one is denying that the issues Igorzep has raised are real, and are not being "dismissers" because of this. It is a matter of cost/benefit. If some of these issues are encountered only by very few people, then the cost of trying to fix this for the masses may be greater than simply offering a refund. If the majority of owners seemingly do not experience these problems, then are they obliged to jump through hoops to arrange their equipment so as to experience these problems? If a person buys a car and hears a strange knock in the engine but 99 others have the same car and don't hear it, they'll all believe the one guy does have a knock and wish him the best in fixing it but that doesn't mean the 99 should go and attempt to duplicate this knock in their own cars. I think it is better to sit back and enjoy rather than going through mazes trying to find problems.    |
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Post by jmilton on Sept 5, 2015 11:02:00 GMT -5
^That was amazing!
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,861
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Post by LCSeminole on Sept 5, 2015 11:30:26 GMT -5
*******************Please read before posting again in this thread.******************* How about everyone please letting this issue subside??? KeithL has already given an explanation of what Emotiva has found and what to expect in his last post, accepting or not excepting his explanation is completely up to those owners that are affected. I personally have not experienced what has been referred to as "wibbles, warbles and chirps" with my XMC-1, and do acknowledge that I do believe those that have stated as such, have had this issue. Those that have stated they have not experienced it, are just simply saying that and frustrations by their observations don't warrant an uncivil response. KeithL has already asked those participating in this thread to "Play Nice", and I will ask this as well one last time. From this point on, in the interest of keeping the peace, please move the conversation back to the OP's subject. If you can't remember what that is then please refresh your memory by re-reading the OP's first post. Anything submitted after my post that isn't on subject will get removed. Thank you for all members cooperation!!! |
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Post by wizardofoz on Sept 5, 2015 12:23:57 GMT -5
Serious question. With my list of equipment, including. PS3, how do I reproduce a chirp? I have the original Fat PS3, so maybe it doesn't chirp? If Keith says there is an issue, I believe it, I just don't hear it with my current usage. Thanks. I have a fat PS3 too. Are you referring to the menu pressing chirps? I think you need to turn them on in the settings. I do recall these being missing in the UMC-1 when I was using that...it's a while back so I could be wrong. I am having an issue with the oppo 105 where if the tv is off there is no sound on hdmi ...if on the tv and off it again it's fine. Apple TV seems to be ok tho. All arc and and other hdmi options are off on the tv and xmc |
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Post by nickwin on Sept 6, 2015 10:02:54 GMT -5
fbczar said: igorzep, It may not present itself for every user, such as you, or even the very vocal nickwin and geebo (who seem to both be denying that the fault is significant simply because the fault does not present itself to them To be clear I never said that this problem didn't exist. This thread is the first I had heard about it and I've never expirenced it myself so when igorzep says he's getting this daily that raised some red flags. I don't think anyone can deny that something is different in his particular case when he gets it every day and I never do. It turns out that difference is probably source material related. Don't get me wrong, when there is a real problem, which there obviously is, I of course would hope Emotiva would try to fix it. |
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Sept 6, 2015 10:19:31 GMT -5
Since there is no more interest in the OP's subject and so much interest in the "wibbles, warbles and chirps", I recommend starting a new thread. Until then, this one is closed.
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