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Post by The History Kid on Dec 29, 2015 20:21:33 GMT -5
I'm not really interested in starting a debate of "my choice is better than your choice." I'm just saying that if you think you're safer on one device over another, that's a fool's errand. I worked with the stupid phones for years...every single one of them now is significantly flawed unless you're owning a flip phone. |
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Post by copperpipe on Dec 29, 2015 20:22:18 GMT -5
Edward Snowden is hardly "hearsay"; the iphone and mac osx is a leaky sieve just as much as windows. Blackberry 10 is the most secure, but sadly "going out of print" soon.
If you care about privacy, security, performance, and solving ED plus curing world hunger then just install Xubuntu 15.10 and be done with it. All that other crap (windows + osx) is just a portal from your home to whoever wants access to it.
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Post by copperpipe on Dec 29, 2015 20:24:17 GMT -5
I'm not really interested in starting a debate of "my choice is better than your choice." I'm just saying that if you think you're safer on one device over another, that's a fool's errand. No, no it's not. There are more secure options and there are less secure options. If you want to play ignorant and shrug your shoulders, go ahead, just don't mislead people into thinking it's all the same when it clearly is not. |
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Post by thepcguy on Dec 29, 2015 20:42:15 GMT -5
This is here-say and there is no proof. Also this is not an iMac, it's a phone. I would never own a PC, they are junk. I had 4 or 5 of them and everyone of them was plagued with trojan, keyloogger and spyware issues. I got a mac 5-6 years ago and it's been like a breath of fresh air. Never a problem. Ever  You know why you're getting trojans, spyware, "KEYLOGGER"? It's because you are not paying attention to what you are doing. and it's "HEARSAY" - i checked the spelling with Microsoft WORD.   |
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Post by The History Kid on Dec 29, 2015 20:42:55 GMT -5
I'm not really interested in starting a debate of "my choice is better than your choice." I'm just saying that if you think you're safer on one device over another, that's a fool's errand. No, no it's not. There are more secure options and there are less secure options. If you want to play ignorant and shrug your shoulders, go ahead, just don't mislead people into thinking it's all the same when it clearly is not. If you think that you're always behind a wall once you plug an Ethernet cord into your computer or hit connect on your Wi-Fi, more power to you. I just find it laughable that people actually act surprised when they find out that "it isn't as secure as I thought." Don't do anything stupid on the web and it shouldn't be a problem. |
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bootman
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Typing useless posts on internet forums....
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Post by bootman on Dec 29, 2015 21:33:57 GMT -5
Edward Snowden is hardly "hearsay"; the iphone and mac osx is a leaky sieve just as much as windows. Blackberry 10 is the most secure, but sadly "going out of print" soon. If you care about privacy, security, performance, and solving ED plus curing world hunger then just install Xubuntu 15.10 and be done with it. All that other crap (windows + osx) is just a portal from your home to whoever wants access to it. Nothing is immune. www.digitaltrends.com/computing/linux-hack-backspace-28-times/ |
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Post by copperpipe on Dec 29, 2015 23:32:28 GMT -5
Edward Snowden is hardly "hearsay"; the iphone and mac osx is a leaky sieve just as much as windows. Blackberry 10 is the most secure, but sadly "going out of print" soon. If you care about privacy, security, performance, and solving ED plus curing world hunger then just install Xubuntu 15.10 and be done with it. All that other crap (windows + osx) is just a portal from your home to whoever wants access to it. Nothing is immune. www.digitaltrends.com/computing/linux-hack-backspace-28-times/Nice try that's a local vulnerability, someone sitting in front of your computer; may as well just pull out the hard drive at that point, full access to your data regardless of the OS. We're talking about remote vulnerabilities; linux is not 100% immune, but compared to Windows it's not even close. |
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Post by copperpipe on Dec 29, 2015 23:40:37 GMT -5
No, no it's not. There are more secure options and there are less secure options. If you want to play ignorant and shrug your shoulders, go ahead, just don't mislead people into thinking it's all the same when it clearly is not. If you think that you're always behind a wall once you plug an Ethernet cord into your computer or hit connect on your Wi-Fi, more power to you. I just find it laughable that people actually act surprised when they find out that "it isn't as secure as I thought." Don't do anything stupid on the web and it shouldn't be a problem. Windows once had a large gaping hole in its image handling library. An image attached to an email sent to you just had to be clicked on in outlook and boom, your computer was owned. That's the problem with Windows, you're at the mercy of emails you receive and Web pages you visit. Not a matter of just not doing stupid. There is a whole industry built up around Antivirus and anti malware and registry cleaners, makes me cringe. The sh__ I've pulled of of family /friends computers is proof that windows is an open door; you don't even need to knock. Anyway, I work in consulting / software for a living, you feel free to believe what you want to believe, I'm not going to argue about it. |
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Post by The History Kid on Dec 29, 2015 23:46:47 GMT -5
I'm still trying to understand how it is that I went from talking about a Windows, Android and Apple phone to having the spokes poked at me over computer security...
...my argument stands.
But, you know...whatever. People will stick to what they believe and know, and criticize others for thinking differently or having an opinion. Seems to be the way the world turns.
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Post by novisnick on Dec 30, 2015 0:19:43 GMT -5
I never meant for this thread to become derisive or mean spirited. I was just trying to remind my friends that we're always open to whomever when on the internet.
This thread should not become an operating system battlefield.
Thank you my friends!!
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Post by yves on Dec 30, 2015 2:35:03 GMT -5
Windows 10 is not spying on everything I do. It's because I'm using Windows 8.1 instead.  |
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Dec 30, 2015 3:26:51 GMT -5
Windows has always been more susceptible to virus and malware attacks than MAC. It has nothing to do with the quality of the OS in particular. Rather it is linked to the market share that the OS has and is the same reason that more software is available for the PC. This is called Market-Share. Given the following statistics, what do you thing the major target will be? Market-Share 2015 (Pre Win 10)  |
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Post by yves on Dec 30, 2015 8:32:27 GMT -5
Windows has always been more susceptible to virus and malware attacks than MAC. It has nothing to do with the quality of the OS in particular. Rather it is linked to the market share that the OS has and is the same reason that more software is available for the PC. This is called Market-Share. Given the following statistics, what do you thing the major target will be? Market-Share 2015 (Pre Win 10) The fact so many Mac users *think* Macs are insusceptible and therefore they don't deem it at all necessary to take any further steps is posing a bigger security threat than that which the average (non foolish) Windows user will typically be exposed to. |
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Dec 30, 2015 8:45:48 GMT -5
The fact so many Mac users *think* Macs are insusceptible and therefore they don't deem it at all necessary to take any further steps is posing a bigger security threat than that which the average (non foolish) Windows user will typically be exposed to. Absolutely!!! I don't know how many times I've asked a MAC user what they run for AV software and the reply has been "none" MACs don't need it! |
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Post by copperpipe on Dec 30, 2015 9:56:52 GMT -5
Windows has always been more susceptible to virus and malware attacks than MAC. It has nothing to do with the quality of the OS in particular. Rather it is linked to the market share that the OS has and is the same reason that more software is available for the PC. This is called Market-Share. Given the following statistics, what do you thing the major target will be? Market-Share 2015 (Pre Win 10) Chuck, that is often quoted by those who don't know better, but it is not true. Yes Windows has a larger DESKTOP market share, but not SERVER (where linux is > 50%) or MOBILE or anywhere else. Linux runs on the desktop, server, mobile, embedded etc., it is more secure than windows everywhere it runs. It's not a marketshare issue, it's a design and implementation issue; I don't expect non-programmers to understand and I won't convince anyone otherwise anyway so I really am done here. By the way, really paranoid people run OpenBSD, which is the most secure operating system that can be used for server or desktop usage. Again, not market share, it's design, security audits, and really really smart people who know cryptography and how to design and write secure code / software. I choose linux over openbsd because some software doesn't yet work on openbsd, and for myself linux is secure enough (I'm not a bank), but openbsd is better than linux for security. Your pretty pie chart actually says something different to people like myself; the only reason windows is still used is because it has a massive install base, tons of forward momentum which (like a snowball) is hard to stop. Linux is better (yes, it really is) than windows by every metric; performance, security, stability, tweakability (is that a word?), scalability, privacy; the only reason people don't use linux is because windows got there first and it's hard to gain marketshare at this point (think only of some software programs like photoshop that don't run on linux simply because it's not ported to linux; if you need photoshop, you can't run linux; this is then that famous chicken-and-egg type problem; not much customers run linux, so not much programs are ported to linux, the cycle spins around). To all you windows 10 guys, I hope you like ads in your start menu; if you don't have them yet, wait patiently, they're on the way! |
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Post by millst on Dec 30, 2015 10:41:17 GMT -5
The problem with market share is that it's useless in this context unless we know how big the markets are. Linux usage has gone up dramatically over the years because of Android (>1 billion devices). It doesn't really matter which of the major OSes you run, they are all insecure: www.cvedetails.com/top-50-products.php?year=2015Nobody is an order of magnitude different. It really comes down to the system owner configuring their system properly and staying up-to-date on patches. -tm |
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Dec 30, 2015 10:44:18 GMT -5
Chuck, that is often quoted by those who don't know better, but it is not true. Yes Windows has a larger DESKTOP market share, but not SERVER (where linux is > 50%) or MOBILE or anywhere else. Linux runs on the desktop, server, mobile, embedded etc., it is more secure than windows everywhere it runs. It's not a marketshare issue, it's a design and implementation issue; I don't expect non-programmers to understand and I won't convince anyone otherwise anyway so I really am done here. By the way, really paranoid people run OpenBSD, which is the most secure operating system that can be used for server or desktop usage. Again, not market share, it's design, security audits, and really really smart people who know cryptography and how to design and write secure code / software. I choose linux over openbsd because some software doesn't yet work on openbsd, and for myself linux is secure enough (I'm not a bank), but openbsd is better than linux for security. Your pretty pie chart actually says something different to people like myself; the only reason windows is still used is because it has a massive install base, tons of forward momentum which (like a snowball) is hard to stop. Linux is better (yes, it really is) than windows by every metric; performance, security, stability, tweakability (is that a word?), scalability, privacy; the only reason people don't use linux is because windows got there first and it's hard to gain marketshare at this point (think only of some software programs like photoshop that don't run on linux simply because it's not ported to linux; if you need photoshop, you can't run linux; this is then that famous chicken-and-egg type problem; not much customers run linux, so not much programs are ported to linux, the cycle spins around). To all you windows 10 guys, I hope you like ads in your start menu; if you don't have them yet, wait patiently, they're on the way! I think you are missing the point. We ARE talking Desktop environment here not server, and the 2 desktop environments out there are OSX and Windows! Linux has certainly made huge inroads into the server market, but iOS and Android own the mobile market. Linux is getting better as a possible desktop, but is still far too cumbersome for the casual user's desktop. Now, given this, I am not s*&$ing on Linux. It is a great server OS and is becoming a very simple platform to do embedded development, thank you Raspberry PI! I use FreeNAS as a NAS system, but I wouldn't push it onto a non-technical person as it took me a week of reading to completely understand its operation. What bugs me is when the MAC people make statements that sound like God is in their fingertips as they type, and to use anything else is sacrilege. The bottom line is that OSX and Windows are just competitive OSs. Either one is good, neither is better. |
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Post by copperpipe on Dec 30, 2015 10:58:47 GMT -5
I think you are missing the point. We ARE talking Desktop environment here not server, and the 2 desktop environments out there are OSX and Windows! I'm not missing the point at all! You used the marketshare argument, I'm saying that it's not a valid argument since linux has > marketshare than windows in the server area and is still more secure. If linux is more secure than windows in the server space, yet has a huge market share, then clearly it follows (logically) that marketshare is not the reason why windows is hacked, beaten, and ridiculed so often. I agree with you on the mac fanbois though; they are a little more secure at this point, not sure how long that will last. The day is coming though when they won't be able to install anything on their computer without going through the (approved by big brother Apple) app store. I can't stand that kind of thing, all the more reason to stick with linux. Android is linux, btw. Google has done something to it (a GUI shell on top of the linux kernel and userspace) but they have managed to make it less secure in the process. Blackberry 10 is king in the mobile space. |
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Post by copperpipe on Dec 30, 2015 11:12:04 GMT -5
It doesn't really matter which of the major OSes you run, they are all insecure "It doesn't really matter what car you drive, they all break down." Sorry, that's very naive, it doesn't work that way. |
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Dec 30, 2015 11:20:16 GMT -5
I'm not missing the point at all! You used the marketshare argument, I'm saying that it's not a valid argument since linux has > marketshare than windows in the server area and is still more secure. If linux is more secure than windows in the server space, yet has a huge market share, then clearly it follows (logically) that marketshare is not the reason why windows is hacked, beaten, and ridiculed so often. Respectfully, what Linux has in the server market has zero relevance to this discussion, I don't care how good it is. The market-share graphic was just to show who is using what on the desktop! Android is linux, btw. Google has done something to it (a GUI shell on top of the linux kernel and userspace) but they have managed to make it less secure in the process. Blackberry 10 is king in the mobile space. Yes, and a large part of Windows is based on VMS (Digital Equipment DEC). Android has deviated so much that it's hard to still call it Linux, just as Windows-10 has from VMS. |
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