Lsc
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 3,435
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Post by Lsc on Jan 12, 2016 11:52:21 GMT -5
Do we have any moderators here that can just clean up the posts with the pointless name calling? Then delete this post as well. Thanks!
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Post by audiobill on Jan 12, 2016 11:53:51 GMT -5
My ears.
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,276
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Post by KeithL on Jan 12, 2016 12:05:33 GMT -5
Actually there is - that's what Reference Stereo mode is for. (With an analog input, the signal remains in analog all the way through, with no processing.) A couple of years ago when I I was looking for a new Pre-Pro and there was no indication when the 7.2 XMC-1 was going to be available(I got tired of waiting), I ended up buying the (fugly, whatever that means)Yamaha 11.2 CXA5000 which is essentially the same as the 5100 without the Atmos and DTX surround programs and it sounds excellent. At the time, I was able to compare it, head to head, with a $12,000 Anthem Statement Pre-Pro connected to the same amplification, and frankly, if there was any audible difference between the two, I couldn't hear it. During the last two years, along with already having the 4K pass through capability right from the outset, with my CV-A5000, one of a number of firmware updates included the HDMI 2.0 which became available in June/2014. Incidentally, the prices shown for the Yamaha and Marantz are MSRP and can be purchased for less on the street. I picked up the CXA5000 for less than $2500 and the 5100. is probably in the same price range making it pretty comparable to the XMC-1, yet, more up-to-date and offering considerably more in value and features. Come to think of it, despite its very positive reviews, even if the XMC-1 would have been available at the time, I probably still would have chosen the Yamaha Pre-Pro over it. Hopefully, the newer XMC-2 will incorporate all the latest features. This is great info. I'm not married to any brand; they are components and I have no emotional attachment to them. Ideally, if can just get an Atmos receiver for $1k and incorporate it to my current system it would be perfect. From past experience, absolute sound quality isn't as critical in multichannel. Too bad there is nothing on the XMC-1 like the XSP-1 to put it in pass thru mode since 2 ch performance will likely sound better with the XMC-1. |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 12, 2016 12:06:48 GMT -5
It must be nice to have so much money and time on your hands to be able to evaluate all those products with your own ears before making decisions. All without any guidelines or recommendations on where to start or what to skip. And to have no regard or consideration or care to take recommendations from people who have made it their life's work to become experts on such things. That would be amazing.  |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2016 12:06:51 GMT -5
I'm not being critical of the product, but don't put any stock in "Sound & Vision". Please elaborate as to which magazines you do put stock into. its just his way of defending (blindly) anyone who isnt praising emotiva. there is ALWAYS something wrong with why they "left it out". the magazine sucks...well it got two great reviews. 2 is better than 1....give me a break lmao. god forbit someone give their opinion that isnt colored emo blue if S&V said it was product of the year...I guarantee it would be posted here and praised...funny how that works |
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Post by audiobill on Jan 12, 2016 12:08:44 GMT -5
Please elaborate as to which magazines you do put stock into. its just his way of defending (blindly) anyone who isnt praising emotiva. there is ALWAYS something wrong with why they "left it out". the magazine sucks...well it got two great reviews. 2 is better than 1....give me a break lmao. god forbit someone give their opinion that isnt colored emo blue if S&V said it was product of the year...I guarantee it would be posted here and praised...funny how that works Wrong again, I don't have any opinion on the XMC-1, but don't put stock in S&V. |
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Post by audiobill on Jan 12, 2016 12:09:31 GMT -5
It must be nice to have so much money and time on your hands to be able to evaluate all those products with your own ears before making decisions. All without any guidelines or recommendations on where to start or what to skip. And to have no regard or consideration or care to take recommendations from people who have made it their life's work to become experts on such things. That would be amazing. In fact, it is. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2016 12:11:51 GMT -5
its just his way of defending (blindly) anyone who isnt praising emotiva. there is ALWAYS something wrong with why they "left it out". the magazine sucks...well it got two great reviews. 2 is better than 1....give me a break lmao. god forbit someone give their opinion that isnt colored emo blue if S&V said it was product of the year...I guarantee it would be posted here and praised...funny how that works Wrong again, I don't have any opinion on the XMC-1, but don't put stock in S&V. how can I be wrong AGAIN if it was my first comment? then you have no reputable say in the matter...you never have heard the xmc-1... |
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Post by geebo on Jan 12, 2016 12:13:22 GMT -5
Please elaborate as to which magazines you do put stock into. its just his way of defending (blindly) anyone who isnt praising emotiva. there is ALWAYS something wrong with why they "left it out". the magazine sucks...well it got two great reviews. 2 is better than 1....give me a break lmao. god forbit someone give their opinion that isnt colored emo blue if S&V said it was product of the year...I guarantee it would be posted here and praised...funny how that works So,,,if the Denon doesn't get a product of the year award do you criticize it on the Denon forums? |
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 12, 2016 12:15:14 GMT -5
Lucky you in that regard.  |
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Post by audiobill on Jan 12, 2016 12:16:57 GMT -5
its just his way of defending (blindly) anyone who isnt praising emotiva. there is ALWAYS something wrong with why they "left it out". the magazine sucks...well it got two great reviews. 2 is better than 1....give me a break lmao. god forbit someone give their opinion that isnt colored emo blue if S&V said it was product of the year...I guarantee it would be posted here and praised...funny how that works So,,,if the Denon doesn't get a product of the year award do you criticize it on the Denon forums? Where was the XMC-1 criticized? certainly not by moi. |
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Post by monkumonku on Jan 12, 2016 12:19:13 GMT -5
Please elaborate as to which magazines you do put stock into. its just his way of defending (blindly) anyone who isnt praising emotiva. there is ALWAYS something wrong with why they "left it out". the magazine sucks...well it got two great reviews. 2 is better than 1....give me a break lmao. god forbit someone give their opinion that isnt colored emo blue if S&V said it was product of the year...I guarantee it would be posted here and praised...funny how that works I don't think audiobill blindly defends Emotiva. I've read plenty of remarks from him that were not praising the products. It seems to me that while you complain about Emotiva "fanbois" here in a Lounge that is sponsored by Emotiva, you go out of your way to dismiss, ridicule and disrespect their products as well as the people who love the brand. It goes both ways. I could just as well say the same of you about being an Atmos fanboi or Denon fanboi. You like the stuff - fine. You are right - if S&V named the XMC-1 their product of the year, it would be posted here and praised. But that still wouldn't change anyone's opinion of the magazine itself. |
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Post by millst on Jan 12, 2016 12:19:56 GMT -5
I think I have to disagree with one of your general premises here..... I haven't actually personally heard either the latest Marantz or Yamaha offering in a setting where I could fairly and critically compare how they sound to the XMC-1... so I'm not making any specific claims here. However, I don't think it's fair to generalize that anybody "probably won't hear a difference in sound quality". According to my experience with lots of other audio components, and according to reports from lots of people who have directly compared specific models, there are in fact significant audible differences between various brands, and even various models, of components. (And, yes, I've heard similar statements from people who've replaced other, and some lots more expensive, components with an XMC-1 - and seem pretty sure that they've heard an immediate and significant improvement... and a few of them seemed genuinely surprised that the difference was as noticeable as it was.) Therefore, unless you actually HAVE done that A/B comparison, and heard (or NOT heard) differences for yourself, then I don't really think it's fair to have - and repeat - expectations that the difference isn't there. While I personally happen to agree that many of the things "golden ears" claim to hear seem to be more imagination than fact, or are hugely exaggerated, I don't think that's always the case, or can be said as a generalization. I think that, in many cases, small but significant differences are in fact ignored, or go unnoticed in the glitter and lens flare from some new whiz-bang feature. (I still remember my first surround sound receiver. It had seven channels, and lots of power, and decent specs... and it sounded pretty cool when I played my first surround sound DVD. But, when I played something in stereo, and compared it to my old stereo preamp, without all the cool special effects, the surround sound AVR actually sounded pretty awful... so awful in fact that it went back in the box and I reconnected the stereo rig... That AVR had all the latest features - for the time, had gotten pretty good reviews, and I'm sure it would have even gotten a pretty high value score, but it just didn't sound very good.) Therefore, I would definitely encourage anyone who thinks "they all sound the same" to actually do the comparison themselves.... (Heck, we'll even give you 30 days to return the XMC-1 if you don't agree that it sounds better after you buy it. I wonder if you can find a Marantz dealer willing to take the same chance.....  ) Looking back at the review, the XMC-1 lost points for value and ergonomics. The ergonomics mostly reflect on the additional complexity of Dirac setup. Despite the other units costing more, I'm sure the lower value score is a reflection on the lack of features already mentioned. For many of us, the value proposition was quite different since we got in before the price went up. Sound quality wise I doubt there's a big difference between any of them. Heck, with the pace of technology, the sound quality in budget units is great these days. Unless you've got the golden ears, top tier speakers, awesome source material, and well treated room... -tm There are many possible reasons for people to say there are big differences in sound. When it comes to forum posts, confirmation bias and post-purchase rationalization come to mind. Most forum posters talking about these big improvements are people that upgraded, not people performing a controlled comparison. Who knows if the units were even level matched? I am very dubious when somebody upgrades one generation of receiver and raves about lifting the veil, tight bass, massive soundstage, etc. The general gist I see when looking at people that perform more controlled experiments or are in the business of professionally reviewing is that there are slight to minor differences in audio quality. Note, that I'm talking about the ADCs, DACs, DSPs, volume control, etc. There are obvious differences between AC3, TrueHD, Atmos, etc. or ARC, Audyssey, Dirac, etc. I think it makes a lot more sense to invest your money in technologies that get you the most bang for your buck: room treatment, more/better speakers, newer room EQ, etc. I've already got an XMC-1 so you don't need to convince me there. Compared to my Integra DHC-9.9, it definitely has cleaner output. Other than that, with room EQ disengaged, I wouldn't say there is a huge difference. Dirac is the game changer, however. It's a big step up from Audyssesey XT. At this time, I'm not motivated enough to install additional speakers in my theater so I don't mind the lack of support for immersive formats. I can't justify a 4k projector either. That made the decision a no-brainer for me. For those that want it all, they can buy the Marantz or Yamaha. They can always add an 88A to get Dirac. Or just go all in and get the Datasat. -tm |
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Post by geebo on Jan 12, 2016 12:39:40 GMT -5
So,,,if the Denon doesn't get a product of the year award do you criticize it on the Denon forums? Where was the XMC-1 criticized? certainly not by moi. Nope. Not criticized by you. My response was really for the other quote. |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,276
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Post by KeithL on Jan 12, 2016 12:39:48 GMT -5
The whole point of reviews is to pick reviewers whose priorities and opinions (and hearing) agrees with yours. It's not a simple matter of right and wrong; the idea is to find someone who "thinks like you do" and "hears like you do" so you can have some reasonable expectation that, if they like something, you'll like it, and vice versa. Obviously, different magazines, and different reviewers, have different priorities. Therefore, it's not so much a matter of "trusting" such and such magazine or reviewer, but of finding one whose judgment generally seems to agree with yours, to the point where you can get useful information from their reviews. (It's just like how you utilize the information when a certain friend says they liked or didn't like the food at a certain restaurant. Sure, there may be a few reviewers out there who seem to base their preferences on advertising budget; but, then, you may have one or two friends who base how well they like a restaurant on the decor, or the background music.)
If you consider having all the latest features more important than sound quality, then you should find reviewers who also feel that way, because you'll probably like most of the products they do; and, if you consider sound quality to be the most important thing, then you should find reviewers who consistently rate products that way. There's always going to be a trade-off; you aren't going to find a product with the most features, and the best sound quality, for the lowest price (it's possible but pretty unlikely). There are obviously plenty of people out there who do consider having every new feature to be the most important reason to buy a product (and the XMC-1 is probably not for them). However, we like to think that, for people who actually place the highest priority on sound quality, with value being a close second, the XMC-1 will turn out to be an excellent choice (and many folks seem to agree with us there).
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Post by geebo on Jan 12, 2016 12:59:43 GMT -5
Please elaborate as to which magazines you do put stock into. its just his way of defending (blindly) anyone who isnt praising emotiva. there is ALWAYS something wrong with why they "left it out". the magazine sucks...well it got two great reviews. 2 is better than 1....give me a break lmao. god forbit someone give their opinion that isnt colored emo blue if S&V said it was product of the year...I guarantee it would be posted here and praised...funny how that works So,,,if Denon doesn't get three out of three product of the year awards do you criticize them on the Denon forums? Give me a break. LMAO. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2016 13:00:48 GMT -5
its just his way of defending (blindly) anyone who isnt praising emotiva. there is ALWAYS something wrong with why they "left it out". the magazine sucks...well it got two great reviews. 2 is better than 1....give me a break lmao. god forbit someone give their opinion that isnt colored emo blue if S&V said it was product of the year...I guarantee it would be posted here and praised...funny how that works So,,,if the Denon doesn't get a product of the year award do you criticize it on the Denon forums? not even remotely... only emo owners feel the need to defend their purchases edit: there is a denon forum? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2016 13:03:02 GMT -5
its just his way of defending (blindly) anyone who isnt praising emotiva. there is ALWAYS something wrong with why they "left it out". the magazine sucks...well it got two great reviews. 2 is better than 1....give me a break lmao. god forbit someone give their opinion that isnt colored emo blue if S&V said it was product of the year...I guarantee it would be posted here and praised...funny how that works I don't think audiobill blindly defends Emotiva. I've read plenty of remarks from him that were not praising the products. It seems to me that while you complain about Emotiva "fanbois" here in a Lounge that is sponsored by Emotiva, you go out of your way to dismiss, ridicule and disrespect their products as well as the people who love the brand. It goes both ways. I could just as well say the same of you about being an Atmos fanboi or Denon fanboi. You like the stuff - fine. You are right - if S&V named the XMC-1 their product of the year, it would be posted here and praised. But that still wouldn't change anyone's opinion of the magazine itself. you couldnt be MORE wrong. I have praised the xmc-1 over and over...it sounds great!! so please stop trying to make me out to be the villain because I dont bend over and kiss *bleep* any chance I get and defend anything anti-emotiva...Im a realist...not a blind follower...this is a forum not a cult |
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Post by geebo on Jan 12, 2016 13:08:33 GMT -5
So,,,if the Denon doesn't get a product of the year award do you criticize it on the Denon forums? not even remotely... only emo owners feel the need to defend their purchases edit: there is a denon forum? Only the Emo poohbois pounce if they only win two product of the year awards. What a crock. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2016 13:09:04 GMT -5
its just his way of defending (blindly) anyone who isnt praising emotiva. there is ALWAYS something wrong with why they "left it out". the magazine sucks...well it got two great reviews. 2 is better than 1....give me a break lmao. god forbit someone give their opinion that isnt colored emo blue if S&V said it was product of the year...I guarantee it would be posted here and praised...funny how that works So,,,if Denon doesn't get three out of three product of the year awards do you criticize them on the Denon forums? Give me a break. LMAO. how many times are you going to post the same thing??? and no where have i EVER stated DENON is the greatest thing (sh** I dont even own the flagship I own a mid tier).....EVER!!! i could care less what brand my AVR is at this point because IMHO that has heard the XMC and another brand (gasp...the horror!!) that the key ingredient is DIRAC...so my AVR (as long as it isnt behind the technology curver) could be made by fisher price....as long as I keep DIRAC in the chain...its gonna sound great. DISCLAIMER...now before everyone gets their panties in a bunch...using "fisher price" was an exaturation to get my point across...I am not a emo hater by any means (possibly a fanboy hater...I cant stand when people are blindly loyal to ANYTHING...i prefer true honesty) nor a denon lover....I love what gets e the results i am looking for...Im happy for all that are happy...if that means they love their XMC so be it...but dont argue its the end al be all just cause you own it...its not |
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