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Post by geebo on Feb 6, 2016 18:52:25 GMT -5
So are you free to believe what you want. But if you want to make absolute claims then you need to provide proof, otherwise you're just rambling  I don't need to provide "proof" about something that is known...   |
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Post by pedrocols on Feb 6, 2016 18:53:48 GMT -5
I don't need to provide "proof" about something that is known... I really love your logic my friend. It is not logic my friend but knowledge...  |
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 6, 2016 19:16:16 GMT -5
So are you free to believe what you want. But if you want to make absolute claims then you need to provide proof, otherwise you're just rambling I don't need to provide "proof" about something that is known... I suspect that's what some guy said many many years ago when asked for proof that the world is flat...  |
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Post by geebo on Feb 6, 2016 19:21:22 GMT -5
I don't need to provide "proof" about something that is known... I suspect that's what some guy said many many years ago when asked for proof that the world is flat... I remember it well. |
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Post by pedrocols on Feb 6, 2016 19:25:15 GMT -5
I don't need to provide "proof" about something that is known... I suspect that's what some guy said many many years ago when asked for proof that the world is flat... Suspicions are not allow here only knowledge... |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Feb 6, 2016 19:33:05 GMT -5
The damage already done ! So THAT's what this song was about: I caught you knockin' at my mancave door I love you, baby, can I have some more cables? Ooh, ooh, the damage done I hit the buy button and I lost my cash I watched the cables take another man Gone, gone, the damage done I sing the song because I love the sound I know that some of you don't understand Buy pricey cables to keep my ego high I've seen the cables and the damage done A little part of it in everyone But every cable junkie's like a settin' sun |
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Post by audiobill on Feb 6, 2016 19:34:59 GMT -5
Pono theme song...
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Post by jinjuku on Feb 6, 2016 22:43:23 GMT -5
Like I said you free to believe whatever you want. So are you free to believe what you want. But if you want to make absolute claims then you need to provide proof, otherwise you're just rambling Ok so if I picked an audio company you would be able to point out their false claims? |
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Post by pedrocols on Feb 6, 2016 23:10:39 GMT -5
So are you free to believe what you want. But if you want to make absolute claims then you need to provide proof, otherwise you're just rambling Ok so if I picked an audio company you would be able to point out their false claims? Yes. |
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Post by copperpipe on Feb 6, 2016 23:49:07 GMT -5
So are you free to believe what you want. But if you want to make absolute claims then you need to provide proof, otherwise you're just rambling Ok so if I picked an audio company you would be able to point out their false claims? Hello? That's not how logic works. Some guy claimed that _all_ audio companies lie; the burden of proof remains with him, not me. I just need to give you one audio company name (Emotiva) to prove his claim false. That doesn't mean I now have to find false claims in other companies. |
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Post by Porscheguy on Feb 8, 2016 16:52:11 GMT -5
Aren't they all frauds? The guy who founded Monster Cable has made millions making "pretty" cables. A marketing genius. No. Plenty of reasonable outfits that make well built product for not a lot of cash. I don't go buying bottom of the barrel but diminishing returns set in very quickly. Agreed Monster is marketing genius. I also have some Monster cable that I picked up new in package for what it would have cost to get some no name stuff and I can't ding it's build quality. No doubt Monster cables are well made but that doesn't always mean they sound any better than cables that cost 1/10th of the price. I needed a 50' HDMI cable once upon a time and the Monster one was $350.00. The Amazon one was $19.95 Prime and I cannot tell the difference in SQ or PQ. |
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 9, 2016 10:05:21 GMT -5
To add fuel to the fire, here's what Mark Waldrep (Dr. Aix) sent out yesterday, this time the writings of a guest author:
The Whole Thing Is A Fraud: High-End Cables
By Mark L. Fischer
[Editor's Note: The following comment deserved to be featured as a guest article...and was used with permission.]
Feel free to reprint this or do whatever you like with it. This is not a personal opinion, it is a professional opinion. Among the many jobs I’ve had in my career, I was for the last three of the twelve years I worked there, the chief electrical engineer of Bell Communications Research, at the time the largest research consortium in the world. Audio is just a hobby for me, something I don’t take very seriously. Good thing too, I’d be in a dither also if it were my profession instead.
Never have so many been so confused and misled by so few. To hear people who call themselves audiophiles and those who market products to them tell it, you’d think wire is a complete mystery, a black art. But the truth is that of all the things scientists and engineers understand about electricity, wire has to be at or near the top of the list. Does wire matter in an electrical circuit? You bet it does. That’s why industry has created so many kinds for different applications. What is its legitimate purpose. To connect circuit point A to circuit point B with an acceptable minimum of loss, induced noise, and radiated noise. What is the standard by which wire can be judged? A shunt, no wire at all, just a direct adjacent connection. What is not a legitimate function of wire? To act as a control to deliberately alter a signal. In that function it is absolutely awful, we have far better tools for that. So the first thing audiophile wire manufacturers have to do to sell you their product is to convince you not to use those tools and they have largely succeeded. That’s when the games begin and the money starts to flow from their customers’ bank accounts into theirs.
How then do wires actually work. Scientists understand electrical conductivity right down to the quantum mechanics level of how electrons escape the pull of nuclei and flow under the influence of an applied electrical field. They also know how to shield wire effectively both electrically and where necessary in rare occasions magnetically. Electrical engineers know how to model wire mathematically by creating equivalent lump sum filter parameters circuits from what is actually a distributed parameter filter. They also know how to integrate that model into network equations connecting the source to the load to accurately predict exactly how wire will function in any given circuit.
Mainstream wire manufacturers are not ignorant or stupid either. Then know how to design wire using various geometries, insulation and conducting materials and manufacturing processes such as annealing to create wire that is optimal for any conceivable electrical function at the lowest possible cost. They offer a staggering array of product for every application or problem they can think of. The products created for both professional and consumer audio systems are child’s play for them compared to really challenging problems.
The success of the audiophile wire industry is based entirely on the utter ignorance of the market.
The success of the audiophile wire industry is based entirely on the utter ignorance of the market. Notice that whenever these manufacturers advertise their products, they almost invariably discuss qualitative issues, they rarely if ever give hard numbers to their theories let alone put them in a technical context that will indicate to what degree what they say is significant. And so the whole thing is based on hope and fear among potential customers. That is why I think the whole thing is a fraud. Before this cottage industry got started, nobody thought audio equipment customers would be stupid enough to believe any of this. They were proven wrong.
It's certainly not limited to audio. I was thinking yesterday that even something like shampoo falls into this category. Look at what a wide range of prices there are for shampoo. How some are touted to do all these wonderful things for your hair. Yet the basic ingredient in nearly all of them is the same, and the purpose of that ingredient is to cleanse your hair. So all these other fancy, exotic ingredients that are put into shampoo have to fight against the cleansing agent to keep from being washed away. That's like those cold medicines that promise both being a decongestant and cough suppresent at the same time. Going back to the shampoo, even with all these fancy ingredients, just how much can these things cost? What percentage of that $35 bottle of 8 oz shampoo is the cost of the ingredients?
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Post by mgbpuff on Feb 9, 2016 10:44:50 GMT -5
All companies lie, if they have a marketing department that is!
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Post by jinjuku on Feb 9, 2016 22:34:57 GMT -5
Ok so if I picked an audio company you would be able to point out their false claims? Yes. Ok. Blue Jeans Cable... |
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Post by pedrocols on Feb 9, 2016 23:20:51 GMT -5
That one is too easy. Do you have a more challenging one? |
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Post by jinjuku on Feb 10, 2016 8:18:00 GMT -5
That one is too easy. Do you have a more challenging one? When someone puts a slow ball over the plate swing for it. |
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Post by geebo on Feb 10, 2016 8:48:54 GMT -5
That one is too easy. Do you have a more challenging one? Just curious, if it's so easy then why not give some examples of their false claims? |
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Post by pedrocols on Feb 10, 2016 9:02:15 GMT -5
That one is too easy. Do you have a more challenging one? Just curious, if it's so easy then why not give some examples of their false claims? That's a very good question! |
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Post by pedrocols on Feb 10, 2016 9:03:23 GMT -5
That one is too easy. Do you have a more challenging one? When someone puts a slow ball over the plate swing for it. I like to swing at fast balls... |
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 10, 2016 9:56:30 GMT -5
That one is too easy. Do you have a more challenging one? |
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