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Post by geebo on Feb 10, 2016 10:26:58 GMT -5
monkumonku, Yes and no (nothing like a decisive reply !!!) Maybe I should have worded my response better. Hospital grade receptacles are to ensure the reliability of equipment plugged in to it. Equipment is constantly moved and changed, the receptacle needs to be strong enough to withstand this. Continuously plugging and unplugging hospital equipment into a receptacle does wear it down, so the standards are a little more stringent. A decent receptacle should be just as good for home use. If your plugs are loose at home or the plug loosens out overtime then yes you will possibly hear a difference upgrading to hospital grade. Unfortunately people don't replace receptacles when the are loose or give that spark when plugging or unplugging into it, which is a good sign that the receptacle is worn out and dangerous. So yes to your point if you upgrade an older loose receptacle with a new hospital grade one you possible could hear a difference. Upgrading to hospital grade should help with reliability over time. Below, is an excerpt from UL concerning hospital grade receptacles: In addition to complying with the general use receptacle Listing requirements, hospital grade receptacles incorporate additional construction features and are subjected to additional performance requirements. These include grounding reliability, assembly integrity, strength and durability tests. Well actually, I was just joking because the topic itself is so ridiculous. I agree that outlets have to be safe and properly made but do they make any audible difference in an audio system? Give me a break...  As long as an outlet complies with UL standards then that's all that matters. I suppose you don't believe in Dakiom feedback stabilizers, either. |
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Post by Axis on Feb 10, 2016 10:49:19 GMT -5
I did not want to say anything about it until they are ready for sale but I am working on a perpetual motion powered AC outlet.
Features:
No wires
You can mount it anywhere
Free AC electricity forever
Better sound from your audio gear
They come in assorted shapes and colors
Nightlight included
The deluxe model will have the Clap On Clap Off feature and I am working on a Bark On Bark Off model for dogs.
Stay tuned here for prices and availability.
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 10, 2016 11:00:16 GMT -5
Well actually, I was just joking because the topic itself is so ridiculous. I agree that outlets have to be safe and properly made but do they make any audible difference in an audio system? Give me a break... As long as an outlet complies with UL standards then that's all that matters. I suppose you don't believe in Dakiom feedback stabilizers, either. I never said that. Those Dakiom things are based on science discovered by scientists so if scientists say it then it must be science. |
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Post by lionear on Feb 10, 2016 11:06:08 GMT -5
monkumonku, Yes and no (nothing like a decisive reply !!!) Maybe I should have worded my response better. Hospital grade receptacles are to ensure the reliability of equipment plugged in to it. Equipment is constantly moved and changed, the receptacle needs to be strong enough to withstand this. Continuously plugging and unplugging hospital equipment into a receptacle does wear it down, so the standards are a little more stringent. A decent receptacle should be just as good for home use. If your plugs are loose at home or the plug loosens out overtime then yes you will possibly hear a difference upgrading to hospital grade. Unfortunately people don't replace receptacles when the are loose or give that spark when plugging or unplugging into it, which is a good sign that the receptacle is worn out and dangerous. So yes to your point if you upgrade an older loose receptacle with a new hospital grade one you possible could hear a difference. Upgrading to hospital grade should help with reliability over time. Below, is an excerpt from UL concerning hospital grade receptacles: In addition to complying with the general use receptacle Listing requirements, hospital grade receptacles incorporate additional construction features and are subjected to additional performance requirements. These include grounding reliability, assembly integrity, strength and durability tests. Well actually, I was just joking because the topic itself is so ridiculous. I agree that outlets have to be safe and properly made but do they make any audible difference in an audio system? Give me a break... As long as an outlet complies with UL standards then that's all that matters. The original question by Thatcher was whether anyone can say that this made any audible difference. monkumonku was trying to be sarcastic. He's calling everyone who even considers this question..... a fool. There are people on this forum who either can't hear very well, or who distrust what their ears and brain are telling them. They want a test result - a frequency plot, or a meter reading, etc. He's just enforcing that point of view on you. I believe monkumonku is mistaken. On logical grounds, one should do this: Try it out. If you can hear an audible benefit, then go ahead and keep the outlet in place. If you cannot hear an audible benefit, then by all means return the outlet for a refund. Presumably, monkumonku will change the outlets if a "Champion of Science" (like Dr AIX, maybe) proves a benefit on scientific grounds. But this is wrong. If Dr AIX proves the benefit, and you had already heard the benefit, then.... ok fine - you already implemented the idea. So what Dr AIX says is not important. If Dr AIX proves the benefit, and you didn't hear the benefit, then don't bother making the change. So what Dr AIX says is not important. (We don't need to spend any money on anything that we cannot actually hear.) In Logic terms, we'd say that whether a scientific test on outlets proves a benefit is neither a necessary or a sufficient condition. And so it's irrelevant to the discussion. Is it possible for Dr AIX to prove that power outlets DON'T make a difference? No. You can't prove a negative via an experiment. My view is: just try stuff out, and listen, and trust your ears! |
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Post by Axis on Feb 10, 2016 11:10:31 GMT -5
I use brass screws and a torque wrench on mine.  |
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 10, 2016 11:12:22 GMT -5
Well actually, I was just joking because the topic itself is so ridiculous. I agree that outlets have to be safe and properly made but do they make any audible difference in an audio system? Give me a break... As long as an outlet complies with UL standards then that's all that matters. The original question by Thatcher was whether anyone can say that this made any audible difference. monkumonku was trying to be sarcastic. He's calling everyone who even considers this question..... a fool. There are people on this forum who either can't hear very well, or who distrust what their ears and brain are telling them. They want a test result - a frequency plot, or a meter reading, etc. He's just enforcing that point of view on you. I believe monkumonku is mistaken. On logical grounds, one should do this: Try it out. If you can hear an audible benefit, then go ahead and keep the outlet in place. If you cannot hear an audible benefit, then by all means return the outlet for a refund. Presumably, monkumonku will change the outlets if a "Champion of Science" (like Dr AIX, maybe) proves a benefit on scientific grounds. But this is wrong. If Dr AIX proves the benefit, and you had already heard the benefit, then.... ok fine - you already implemented the idea. So what Dr AIX says is not important. If Dr AIX proves the benefit, and you didn't hear the benefit, then don't bother making the change. So what Dr AIX says is not important. (We don't need to spend any money on anything that we cannot actually hear.) In Logic terms, we'd say that whether a scientific test on outlets proves a benefit is neither a necessary or a sufficient condition. And so it's irrelevant to the discussion. Is it possible for Dr AIX to prove that power outlets DON'T make a difference? No. You can't prove a negative via an experiment. I don't disagree with you. I was indeed being sarcastic, and expressing my opinion which I believe is more closely aligned with science than is the opinion that properly functioning outlets do have audible differences between them. But like you said, the ultimate proof is whether or not one does hear a difference. If one claims to hear a difference (whether or not one objectively exists) then who am I or anyone else to refute them? So just to be clear, my opinion is that properly functioning outlets have no audible audio system differences between them. But the bottom line is, each individual needs to determine if they can hear a difference and if so, if it is beneficial. |
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Post by Bonzo on Feb 10, 2016 11:13:12 GMT -5
I use brass screws and a torque wrench on mine. Make sure you use a precision level too, because if the outlets are even slightly crooked it could throw off the imaging something awful.  |
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Post by Axis on Feb 10, 2016 11:45:00 GMT -5
I use brass screws and a torque wrench on mine. Make sure you use a precision level too, because if the outlets are even slightly crooked it could throw off the imaging something awful. Thanks Bonzo, that made this sound much better. |
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Post by ÈlTwo on Feb 10, 2016 11:49:21 GMT -5
Is it possible for Dr AIX to prove that power outlets DON'T make a difference? No. You can't prove a negative via an experiment. Actually, you can prove this type of negative, if you know the parameters. |
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Post by ÈlTwo on Feb 10, 2016 11:58:17 GMT -5
Of course outlets can make a difference, if you have outlets with issues.
The question is what outlet removes those issues; is it an $8 outlet, a $20 or $50 outlet, or is there something that a $100+ outlet can do in isolating the circuit and/or the ground that none of the other outlets can do.
The outlets also aren't going to compensate for excess or insufficient voltage, so there usefulness is very limited.
If there is an audible difference, then it can be shown using a double blind test.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2016 13:14:04 GMT -5
I always buy mine at an outlet store.
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Post by geebo on Feb 10, 2016 13:47:23 GMT -5
I always buy mine at an outlet store. And when your cat loses a tail do you go to the retail store? |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Feb 10, 2016 14:14:44 GMT -5
Taking a clean approach to AC distribution with short cords will do far more to improve sound:  Very tidy rack! (And I didn't know you could go wireless for all the interconnects. ) Mark |
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Post by jmilton on Feb 10, 2016 15:01:38 GMT -5
I always buy mine at an outlet store. And when your cat loses a tail do you go to the retail store? |
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Post by Bonzo on Feb 10, 2016 15:06:22 GMT -5
I'm all for a good quality outlet and checking your wiring, but the insanity (read snakeoil) of this article comes from the fact that a good hospital grade outlet can be had for about $50 while one of these "high grade" outlets(OYAIDE SWO-XXX ULTIMO) is almost $100 more. Taking a clean approach to AC distribution with short cords will do far more to improve sound: Can I ask where you even get such sort cords? |
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Post by Chuck Elliot on Feb 10, 2016 19:09:20 GMT -5
Can I ask where you even get such sort cords? Monoprice! |
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Post by klinemj on Feb 10, 2016 19:27:03 GMT -5
Can I ask where you even get such sort cords? Monoprice! Can I ask if you noticed a difference in sound based on the type of metal in the circuit boxes?  I didn't just type that, did I? (No offense intended to you, Sir Elliot...I just saw a slow pitch...) Mark |
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Post by lionear on Feb 10, 2016 20:21:46 GMT -5
Is it possible for Dr AIX to prove that power outlets DON'T make a difference? No. You can't prove a negative via an experiment. Actually, you can prove this type of negative, if you know the parameters. You may be right.... I'm not sure if what I wrote is correct. I meant to say that if you conduct an experiment, one is normally looking for "something", that will tip the balance towards a definitive conclusion. If nothing is found, then the experiment doesn't prove or disprove anything. Do gravitational waves exist? Two possible answers: A: LIGO found a phenomenon that is consistent with gravitational waves, then yes, they exist. B: LIGO has not found phenomena that is consistent with gravitational waves, so no they do not exist. Answer B would be incorrect. May be there's a flaw in LIGO, may be we need an even more accurate experiment than LIGO, or may be we just need to stay patient and it will find gravitational waves at some point in the future. (One could say the same thing about the search for extraterrestrial intelligence.) That was what I was thinking about when I wrote it.... now about power outlets..... sorry, my mind is blank. :-) |
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Post by bluemeanies on Feb 10, 2016 20:31:21 GMT -5
SNAKE OIL...absolutely
I purchased a high quality outlet for $90.00 at a CES show in Vegas.
Reason/I was told if I didn't hear an improvement I could get my money back as long as I had a receipt. Unfortunately I lost the receipt on the flight back to Philadelphia.
8-)
No difference than the outlets being sold at Home Depot for a few bucks.
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 10, 2016 20:43:55 GMT -5
SNAKE OIL...absolutely I purchased a high quality outlet for $90.00 at a CES show in Vegas. Reason/I was told if I didn't hear an improvement I could get my money back as long as I had a receipt. Unfortunately I lost the receipt on the flight back to Philadelphia.  No difference than the outlets being sold at Home Depot for a few bucks. They figure you're at a show so chances are you don't live local and can't try it out right away. And once you get home, a lot of people aren't going to go to the trouble of sending the stuff back (or they'll have lost the receipt like you did). And if you go back to the show to get your money, they'll have packed up faster than gypsies, tramps and thieves after all you men came to lay your money down. |
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As long as an outlet complies with UL standards then that's all that matters. 
