klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Feb 10, 2016 21:14:28 GMT -5
Gypsies? Tramps? Thieves? I am going to have to Google that. Maybe I am too young for such tossed salad and scrambled eggs.  Mark |
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Post by ÈlTwo on Feb 10, 2016 21:22:46 GMT -5
Cher.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Feb 10, 2016 21:28:33 GMT -5
Next thing I know, you will tell me it is a Sonny day.
Mark
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 11, 2016 1:33:56 GMT -5
I'll also let you in on a little secret - which really isn't all that secret..... (or, more accurately, a few secrets)..... 1) What we hear (or think we hear) is influenced by what we expect to hear; this is especially true when it comes to imagining we hear tiny differences that aren't really there. (Ignoring a real difference is difficult, as is imagining a MAJOR difference, but imagining a tiny difference is relatively easy.) 2) Our expectations are in turn based partly on the situation. For one thing, especially in the US, we are biased to expect more expensive things to work or sound better. For another, if someone offers us a money-back guarantee then we are more inclined to trust them (because it seems obvious that it would be foolish for them to lie if we'll eventually find out and return the product). 3) Once you make a decision to buy something, you are "emotionally invested in it" - because you'll feel silly if you later decide it was a bad decision. And being able to get your money back if you change your mind doesn't actually change this aspect of it much at all. (Which, again, means that, if you bought that expensive outlet because you thought it would sound better, you have one more reason to HOPE you hear a difference.) Therefore, by encouraging you to buy it right away (while surrounded by all those cool products being oohed and aahed over at the show), then charging a lot, then offering you the option to return it, they are "stacking the deck" in favor of a bias to really want to hear a difference - whether one really exists or not. (And this all adds up to the fact that you're very unlikely to return it.) In other words, I'll bet they got very few of those outlets back - even from people who held onto their receipts. (And, of course, since they charged a lot more for them, they won't mind that much if just a few do come back.)  SNAKE OIL...absolutely I purchased a high quality outlet for $90.00 at a CES show in Vegas. Reason/I was told if I didn't hear an improvement I could get my money back as long as I had a receipt. Unfortunately I lost the receipt on the flight back to Philadelphia.  No difference than the outlets being sold at Home Depot for a few bucks. |
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Post by Axis on Feb 11, 2016 2:11:42 GMT -5
I'll also let you in on a little secret - which really isn't all that secret..... (or, more accurately, a few secrets)..... 1) What we hear (or think we hear) is influenced by what we expect to hear; this is especially true when it comes to imagining we hear tiny differences that aren't really there. (Ignoring a real difference is difficult, as is imagining a MAJOR difference, but imagining a tiny difference is relatively easy.) 2) Our expectations are in turn based partly on the situation. For one thing, especially in the US, we are biased to expect more expensive things to work or sound better. For another, if someone offers us a money-back guarantee then we are more inclined to trust them (because it seems obvious that it would be foolish for them to lie if we'll eventually find out and return the product). 3) Once you make a decision to buy something, you are "emotionally invested in it" - because you'll feel silly if you later decide it was a bad decision. And being able to get your money back if you change your mind doesn't actually change this aspect of it much at all. (Which, again, means that, if you bought that expensive outlet because you thought it would sound better, you have one more reason to HOPE you hear a difference.) Therefore, by encouraging you to buy it right away (while surrounded by all those cool products being oohed and aahed over at the show), then charging a lot, then offering you the option to return it, they are "stacking the deck" in favor of a bias to really want to hear a difference - whether one really exists or not. (And this all adds up to the fact that you're very unlikely to return it.) In other words, I'll bet they got very few of those outlets back - even from people who held onto their receipts. (And, of course, since they charged a lot more for them, they won't mind that much if just a few do come back.) SNAKE OIL...absolutely I purchased a high quality outlet for $90.00 at a CES show in Vegas. Reason/I was told if I didn't hear an improvement I could get my money back as long as I had a receipt. Unfortunately I lost the receipt on the flight back to Philadelphia. No difference than the outlets being sold at Home Depot for a few bucks. It's the American way. Everywhere you look there is advertising of new and improved. The tooth brush that was space age last year is prehistoric now compared to the new ones. Buying hair shampoo is a nightmare because even if it is the same stuff you bought last week they changed the look of the bottle just so they can put new and improved on it. How many blades are on the current disposable razors now ? I am having a hard time finding trash bags that do not have perfume on them that stink up your kitchen. Try to decide on a new set of headphones now after reading all the reviews. It's tuff these days to know if your making the right choice on something and the last thing you want is to be lied to about something. That is what is happening and more and more. If they say it is the best so it cost more or it will do a better job so it cost more, beware. Find products you trust and stick with them. Emotiva is a good example. Once I got my Ultra gear I made a decision to stick to there products for my Audio gear. Sometimes you have to wait for something but that has been true for almost everything. |
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Post by yves on Feb 11, 2016 9:40:15 GMT -5
Pro Stealth AR-1 arc reactor:  |
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Post by monkumonku on Feb 11, 2016 10:10:08 GMT -5
I'll also let you in on a little secret - which really isn't all that secret..... (or, more accurately, a few secrets)..... 1) What we hear (or think we hear) is influenced by what we expect to hear; this is especially true when it comes to imagining we hear tiny differences that aren't really there. (Ignoring a real difference is difficult, as is imagining a MAJOR difference, but imagining a tiny difference is relatively easy.) 2) Our expectations are in turn based partly on the situation. For one thing, especially in the US, we are biased to expect more expensive things to work or sound better. For another, if someone offers us a money-back guarantee then we are more inclined to trust them (because it seems obvious that it would be foolish for them to lie if we'll eventually find out and return the product). 3) Once you make a decision to buy something, you are "emotionally invested in it" - because you'll feel silly if you later decide it was a bad decision. And being able to get your money back if you change your mind doesn't actually change this aspect of it much at all. (Which, again, means that, if you bought that expensive outlet because you thought it would sound better, you have one more reason to HOPE you hear a difference.) Therefore, by encouraging you to buy it right away (while surrounded by all those cool products being oohed and aahed over at the show), then charging a lot, then offering you the option to return it, they are "stacking the deck" in favor of a bias to really want to hear a difference - whether one really exists or not. (And this all adds up to the fact that you're very unlikely to return it.) In other words, I'll bet they got very few of those outlets back - even from people who held onto their receipts. (And, of course, since they charged a lot more for them, they won't mind that much if just a few do come back.) It's the American way. Everywhere you look there is advertising of new and improved. The tooth brush that was space age last year is prehistoric now compared to the new ones. Buying hair shampoo is a nightmare because even if it is the same stuff you bought last week they changed the look of the bottle just so they can put new and improved on it. How many blades are on the current disposable razors now ? I am having a hard time finding trash bags that do not have perfume on them that stink up your kitchen. Try to decide on a new set of headphones now after reading all the reviews. It's tuff these days to know if your making the right choice on something and the last thing you want is to be lied to about something. That is what is happening and more and more. If they say it is the best so it cost more or it will do a better job so it cost more, beware. Find products you trust and stick with them. Emotiva is a good example. Once I got my Ultra gear I made a decision to stick to there products for my Audio gear. Sometimes you have to wait for something but that has been true for almost everything. Yup, it is all about trying to differentiate yourself in a crowded marketplace. I can't believe how difficult it is to find just a plain toothbrush, like the kind I used to use when I was growing up. These days they are all fancy, with specialized bristles, special angles to the brush, special materials, etc. And do they clean your teeth any better? I doubt it, plus some of them are so fancy they're too big to comfortably use! Same goes for shampoo. It's hard to find a simple, basic shampoo. Instead they contain all these fancy ingredients. The thing is, if a shampoo is supposed to cleanse your hair then what is the purpose of putting in all these fancy ingredients since they'll be washed away by the cleansing agent anyway? That is unless they alter the cleansing agent to not clean that well in order to not wash away all this other garbage, in which case is your hair really clean? Ewwwww.... |
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Post by yves on Feb 11, 2016 21:20:06 GMT -5
It's the American way. Everywhere you look there is advertising of new and improved. The tooth brush that was space age last year is prehistoric now compared to the new ones. Buying hair shampoo is a nightmare because even if it is the same stuff you bought last week they changed the look of the bottle just so they can put new and improved on it. How many blades are on the current disposable razors now ? I am having a hard time finding trash bags that do not have perfume on them that stink up your kitchen. Try to decide on a new set of headphones now after reading all the reviews. It's tuff these days to know if your making the right choice on something and the last thing you want is to be lied to about something. That is what is happening and more and more. If they say it is the best so it cost more or it will do a better job so it cost more, beware. Find products you trust and stick with them. Emotiva is a good example. Once I got my Ultra gear I made a decision to stick to there products for my Audio gear. Sometimes you have to wait for something but that has been true for almost everything. Yup, it is all about trying to differentiate yourself in a crowded marketplace. I can't believe how difficult it is to find just a plain toothbrush, like the kind I used to use when I was growing up. These days they are all fancy, with specialized bristles, special angles to the brush, special materials, etc. And do they clean your teeth any better? I doubt it, plus some of them are so fancy they're too big to comfortably use! Same goes for shampoo. It's hard to find a simple, basic shampoo. Instead they contain all these fancy ingredients. The thing is, if a shampoo is supposed to cleanse your hair then what is the purpose of putting in all these fancy ingredients since they'll be washed away by the cleansing agent anyway? That is unless they alter the cleansing agent to not clean that well in order to not wash away all this other garbage, in which case is your hair really clean? Ewwwww.... I think the purpose of the fancy ingredients in shampoo and douche gel is to stink up the entire house as well as your neighbours' for hours on end so that, for the rest of the day, they make your expensive cigarettes taste like burnt plastic. |
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Post by ÈlTwo on Feb 12, 2016 0:51:39 GMT -5
Shampoo isn't one of the things I have to worry about.
As to Keith's post, those are the reasons I referenced a double blind test.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2016 1:30:54 GMT -5
Yup, it is all about trying to differentiate yourself in a crowded marketplace. I can't believe how difficult it is to find just a plain toothbrush, like the kind I used to use when I was growing up. These days they are all fancy, with specialized bristles, special angles to the brush, special materials, etc. And do they clean your teeth any better? I doubt it, plus some of them are so fancy they're too big to comfortably use! Same goes for shampoo. It's hard to find a simple, basic shampoo. Instead they contain all these fancy ingredients. The thing is, if a shampoo is supposed to cleanse your hair then what is the purpose of putting in all these fancy ingredients since they'll be washed away by the cleansing agent anyway? That is unless they alter the cleansing agent to not clean that well in order to not wash away all this other garbage, in which case is your hair really clean? Ewwwww.... First on the subject of shampoo, I go with the best buy. I use either the $.79 bottle of Sauve from Walmart or Fred Meyer (Kroger) or use the generic version of Head and Shoulders as I tend to have some dry itchy scalp issues. I have a very big head (Mensa sized large brain) but the generic is cheap! As far as the toothbrushes, I do have issues due to some of the meds I have to take. Years ago I went from the plain old manual toothbrush to an expensive Philips Sonicare. It was highly recommended by the dentist and especially the dental hygienist who just happened to be a fox extraordinaire. I used to fantasize about her as I was brushing my teeth. However, to be completely honest I didn't really like that toothbrush. I didn't like the up and down motion. It sounded logical but just didn't work that well and seemed to be rough on my gums. I'm a long time heart patient and keeping my gums healthy (along with flossing) is critical. That up and down motion is OK for other activities but not that effective for brushing teeth IMO. Some years ago my wife and I both changed at the same time (dual brush kit) to the Braun Oral B, wow, wow, wow! Bought from Costco of course. We both love the Oral B model (rechargeable) and we have a second one in Japan. They operate in a circular motion and are very effective, gentle and well built. They seem to last forever and we couldn't be happier. My current hygienist LeAnn (I love that name) who is originally from Cambodia and even more gorgeous tells me she can see zero plaque on my teeth and my gums are in pretty good shape.. Good boy Chuckie she says. Oral B, electric toothbrush ..... highly recommended (seriously)!  |
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Post by Talley on Feb 12, 2016 6:36:25 GMT -5
I'll also let you in on a little secret - which really isn't all that secret..... (or, more accurately, a few secrets)..... 1) What we hear (or think we hear) is influenced by what we expect to hear; this is especially true when it comes to imagining we hear tiny differences that aren't really there. (Ignoring a real difference is difficult, as is imagining a MAJOR difference, but imagining a tiny difference is relatively easy.) 2) Our expectations are in turn based partly on the situation. For one thing, especially in the US, we are biased to expect more expensive things to work or sound better. For another, if someone offers us a money-back guarantee then we are more inclined to trust them (because it seems obvious that it would be foolish for them to lie if we'll eventually find out and return the product). 3) Once you make a decision to buy something, you are "emotionally invested in it" - because you'll feel silly if you later decide it was a bad decision. And being able to get your money back if you change your mind doesn't actually change this aspect of it much at all. (Which, again, means that, if you bought that expensive outlet because you thought it would sound better, you have one more reason to HOPE you hear a difference.) Therefore, by encouraging you to buy it right away (while surrounded by all those cool products being oohed and aahed over at the show), then charging a lot, then offering you the option to return it, they are "stacking the deck" in favor of a bias to really want to hear a difference - whether one really exists or not. (And this all adds up to the fact that you're very unlikely to return it.) In other words, I'll bet they got very few of those outlets back - even from people who held onto their receipts. (And, of course, since they charged a lot more for them, they won't mind that much if just a few do come back.) SNAKE OIL...absolutely I purchased a high quality outlet for $90.00 at a CES show in Vegas. Reason/I was told if I didn't hear an improvement I could get my money back as long as I had a receipt. Unfortunately I lost the receipt on the flight back to Philadelphia. No difference than the outlets being sold at Home Depot for a few bucks. My uncle has spent over $40,000 on power cables & receptacles alone on his hi-fi system.... over 40 years he has tried everything but when he heard what difference a cheap plug made he was sold and has since converted all of his outlets to these type: www.gordonelectricsupply.com/index~text~430204~path~product~part~430204~ds~dept~process~search?gclid=CjwKEAiAova1BRDS15OXjcug_FMSJACWNAKZg3ICk1t20LrypiQaHWL0KCKSgoTEMqc9kEJjj9ZYrBoCHd7w_wcB$5 plug... cheap, works... and my uncle says sounds magnificent. |
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Post by Talley on Feb 12, 2016 6:38:51 GMT -5
I'm all for a good quality outlet and checking your wiring, but the insanity (read snakeoil) of this article comes from the fact that a good hospital grade outlet can be had for about $50 while one of these "high grade" outlets(OYAIDE SWO-XXX ULTIMO) is almost $100 more. Taking a clean approach to AC distribution with short cords will do far more to improve sound:  Short cords means nothing when your feeder cable from the panel are tiny. My feeder cables from my panel are #4 through 10 depending on the equipment. I ran 10 dedicated circuits to my outlet box by my rack. The amp goes on the #4 feeder. From there all #10awg cords averaging 16"-3' made by me, not bought. |
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Post by Talley on Feb 12, 2016 6:41:20 GMT -5
You can see here his rack and his small outlet boxes using the snap in square outlets. In all he has over 60 of these in his room to cover all his gear. Everything in his room is wired through an isolation transformer to a dedicated panel and all #6-8awg feeders to these outlets. Nothing fancy but sized appropriately. Attachments:
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Post by Bonzo on Feb 12, 2016 9:19:42 GMT -5
You can see here his rack and his small outlet boxes using the snap in square outlets. In all he has over 60 of these in his room to cover all his gear. Everything in his room is wired through an isolation transformer to a dedicated panel and all #6-8awg feeders to these outlets. Nothing fancy but sized appropriately. Sorry, but I don't care how that room is wired. It has zero WAF. I don't even think I could stand to be in that room for 5 minutes. What a disaster. Your uncle must be one of those eccentric types that doesn't care about aesthetics or ergonomics. Back on topic, I call snake oil. As long as you get good connections both from your wall wires in back and the plug you insert in the front, all is good. |
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Post by Talley on Feb 12, 2016 9:46:17 GMT -5
You can see here his rack and his small outlet boxes using the snap in square outlets. In all he has over 60 of these in his room to cover all his gear. Everything in his room is wired through an isolation transformer to a dedicated panel and all #6-8awg feeders to these outlets. Nothing fancy but sized appropriately. Sorry, but I don't care how that room is wired. It has zero WAF. I don't even think I could stand to be in that room for 5 minutes. What a disaster. Your uncle must be one of those eccentric types that doesn't care about aesthetics or ergonomics. Back on topic, I call snake oil. As long as you get good connections both from your wall wires in back and the plug you insert in the front, all is good. This was a dedicated room. My uncle doubled the size of his house. He wanted a dedicated room so he added the room, new laundry, bathroom, upstairs is his master bathroom which is really large. He spent 70k on the expansion. How would a dedicated studio look?... this is the same thing. The wife never enters the space... it's his. His audio has been his life passion since he was 15 and he is 62 now.. 40+ years. Yes... he does not care about aesthetics, he wants function but sound is priority over anything. Sorry you don't share the same dedication but to some, it means everything. The front of the room is even crazier. Not everyone has 250+K to spend though so I understand many cannot do this. Attachments:
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Post by geebo on Feb 12, 2016 9:57:11 GMT -5
Sorry, but I don't care how that room is wired. It has zero WAF. I don't even think I could stand to be in that room for 5 minutes. What a disaster. Your uncle must be one of those eccentric types that doesn't care about aesthetics or ergonomics. Back on topic, I call snake oil. As long as you get good connections both from your wall wires in back and the plug you insert in the front, all is good. This was a dedicated room. My uncle doubled the size of his house. He wanted a dedicated room so he added the room, new laundry, bathroom, upstairs is his master bathroom which is really large. He spent 70k on the expansion. How would a dedicated studio look?... this is the same thing. The wife never enters the space... it's his. His audio has been his life passion since he was 15 and he is 62 now.. 40+ years. Yes... he does not care about aesthetics, he wants function but sound is priority over anything. Sorry you don't share the same dedication but to some, it means everything. The front of the room is even crazier. Not everyone has 250+K to spend though so I understand many cannot do this. Just beautiful. |
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Post by Bonzo on Feb 12, 2016 9:57:26 GMT -5
Sorry, but I don't care how that room is wired. It has zero WAF. I don't even think I could stand to be in that room for 5 minutes. What a disaster. Your uncle must be one of those eccentric types that doesn't care about aesthetics or ergonomics. Back on topic, I call snake oil. As long as you get good connections both from your wall wires in back and the plug you insert in the front, all is good. This was a dedicated room. My uncle doubled the size of his house. He wanted a dedicated room so he added the room, new laundry, bathroom, upstairs is his master bathroom which is really large. He spent 70k on the expansion. How would a dedicated studio look?... this is the same thing. The wife never enters the space... it's his. His audio has been his life passion since he was 15 and he is 62 now.. 40+ years. Yes... he does not care about aesthetics, he wants function but sound is priority over anything. Sorry you don't share the same dedication but to some, it means everything. The front of the room is even crazier. Not everyone has 250+K to spend though so I understand many cannot do this. I could live with that room a whole lot better. But after looking at that with the baskets and bricks and stuff all over the floor, if you don't think he's eccentric, then you might be eccentric too. Nothing wrong with that at all, but your uncle is eccentric. Perhaps genius eccentric. But eccentric none the less. One of my best friends is very eccentric, so I understand it a bit. I just can't stand hanging out in his house that's all, because it's just so haphazard. |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Feb 12, 2016 10:28:54 GMT -5
I agree that it has zero WAF - but then I assume that it isn't his wife's room But, then, I 've seen kitchens which have the ceiling and walls lined with pots and pans, hanging on hooks, which is pretty much the same thing to me. And lots of guys have a garage lined with pegboards covered with tools. I also disagree with the comment about ergonomics.... While I do agree that the wiring looks "messy", it also looks like all of the connections are easily accessible... which is in fact quite important if you're the sort of person who likes to change their wiring frequently I've heard from plenty of customers who have beautifully laid out theater rooms, with all the wiring carefully harnessed and concealed, going crazy when they needed to change a wire or move a connection from one amp to another to try something. Or need to change that HDMI cable they've got buried in their ceiling. It looks to me like he could probably do that without even getting up from his chair. (It all depends on what your GOALS are.) However, I do agree that using baskets and piles of bricks as diffusers (which is what I assume they're for) - is a little "unusual". But, then, perhaps he's TRYING to keep other people out of HIS room You can see here his rack and his small outlet boxes using the snap in square outlets. In all he has over 60 of these in his room to cover all his gear. Everything in his room is wired through an isolation transformer to a dedicated panel and all #6-8awg feeders to these outlets. Nothing fancy but sized appropriately. Sorry, but I don't care how that room is wired. It has zero WAF. I don't even think I could stand to be in that room for 5 minutes. What a disaster. Your uncle must be one of those eccentric types that doesn't care about aesthetics or ergonomics. Back on topic, I call snake oil. As long as you get good connections both from your wall wires in back and the plug you insert in the front, all is good. |
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Post by Bonzo on Feb 12, 2016 13:17:28 GMT -5
I agree that it has zero WAF - but then I assume that it isn't his wife's room I showed these pics to my wife and she basically said if I ever did this, even in a corner basement room, to a room in our house, she would divorce me. And my wife is very cool and forgiving, trust me. And lots of guys have a garage lined with pegboards covered with tools.[/quote] True. I have a pretty crazy garage, but a garage is a garage, not a family room. Agree with the rewiring thing for sure. But I've seen others do this in other ways that would suit me a lot better. Just me. This is not very ergonomic, and this was more what I was referring too. You can't walk around without cracking your toe kicking a basket. Even the other room looks like moving around without hurting yourself might be a challenge. Going to that level to get better sound reminds me of Mr. Pratt in the movie Creep Show with his bug issue. Maybe! |
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Post by Talley on Feb 12, 2016 14:01:30 GMT -5
It's one heck of a system for sure. He's friends with the owners of Chicago's finest dealers (music direct to be one of them) so he demo's all sorts of gear, cables, etc... I find it funny that he has had the best receptacles money can buy... best cables... over $80,000 in cables. After all this he prefers the sound of the $5 square plugs so he uses that. He loves the sound of the cheaper Morrow Audio cables...
...in the end he claims simplistic approach is it's finest. He has tried every isolation product and was a big fan of black diamond stuff for a long time and one day got ahold of mapleshades product and now he has nothing but it and refuses to try anything else. Does it work??? I have no idea.... I haven't done it myself. He sent me a bunch of the square plugs and I use them because of this. I had not tried anything else to compare it to. It works on my system but again I haven't tried to compare them.
The only issue I have with them is they are not a heavy duty type and do not fit the prongs tightly. But it's not really a major issue unless you move stuff around alot.
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