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Post by AudioHTIT on Mar 21, 2016 22:08:53 GMT -5
I think there are a few issues at work here. Yes, American labor is more expensive, but the days of very cheap Chinese labor has also passed, if the old XPA-5 was still made in China, it would also be more expensive. The new modular amp design has to be more expensive to build – slots, cards, accessibility (you're paying extra for this if you use it or not). The XPA-5 G3 has 250 more total Watts than the G1/G2, you're getting more amp. Maybe, but the XPA-5 gen 1 I own is plenty of amp for me. And probably for most people, I doubt many who already own an XPA will be upgrading to a G3 unless they need more channels (though I might). |
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Mar 21, 2016 22:32:00 GMT -5
Yes, you will have to pay for American labor. I don't have a problem with that, just with double the price. Even at $1,600 for an XPA-5 they still compete, they are just not the super value they were. It's not a quick buying decision for a lot of folks. This is just my opinion. It is what it is. I think there are a few issues at work here. Yes, American labor is more expensive, but the days of very cheap Chinese labor has also passed, if the old XPA-5 was still made in China, it would also be more expensive. The new modular amp design has to be more expensive to build – slots, cards, accessibility (you're paying extra for this if you use it or not). The XPA-5 G3 has 250 more total Watts than the G1/G2, you're getting more amp. That's right. Manufacturing costs have gone up considerably in China. A lot of people don't appreciate that. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 22, 2016 5:37:02 GMT -5
I think there are a few issues at work here. Yes, American labor is more expensive, but the days of very cheap Chinese labor has also passed, if the old XPA-5 was still made in China, it would also be more expensive. The new modular amp design has to be more expensive to build – slots, cards, accessibility (you're paying extra for this if you use it or not). The XPA-5 G3 has 250 more total Watts than the G1/G2, you're getting more amp. That's right. Manufacturing costs have gone up considerably in China. A lot of people don't appreciate that. True, I may be wrong, but I doubt double. The new amps may be a good deal at the new price, but again they are not the super deal and value of the earlier versions that drew so many to Emotiva. The BaseX may be the option and solution. Time will tell. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Mar 22, 2016 5:57:08 GMT -5
The new amps may be a good deal at the new price, but again they are not the super deal and value of the earlier versions that drew so many to Emotiva. Super deal.........the fact is Emotiva is walking away from what made it successful. The effect in the US is sure as hell unfavourable, but the effect for us international buyers is devastating. I have a real problem with that logic. A product that looks nothing like the Emotiva gear we already have. That costs more and has less watts than previously comparable Emotiva amplifiers. With a change of Class from the well known and liked A and AB to the not so well known D that also suffers from a fair degree of scepticism. To switching power supplies that have a less than stellar reputation. If I was an Emotiva competitor I'd be quite happy with the changes, particularly if I was a direct seller, there is a great big gaping hole in that market now. Cheers Gary |
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Post by Jim on Mar 22, 2016 7:35:23 GMT -5
The new amps may be a good deal at the new price, but again they are not the super deal and value of the earlier versions that drew so many to Emotiva. Super deal.........the fact is Emotiva is walking away from what made it successful. The effect in the US is sure as hell unfavourable, but the effect for us international buyers is devastating. I have a real problem with that logic. A product that looks nothing like the Emotiva gear we already have. That costs more and has less watts than previously comparable Emotiva amplifiers. With a change of Class from the well known and liked A and AB to the not so well known D that also suffers from a fair degree of scepticism. To switching power supplies that have a less than stellar reputation. If I was an Emotiva competitor I'd be quite happy with the changes, particularly if I was a direct seller, there is a great big gaping hole in that market now. Cheers Gary Is there more known about the "BaseX" amps? I could see SMPS, but is class D also in the plans? I'm not quite convinced that Emotiva is "abandoning" their legacy architecture entirely - but if they are, I doubt it will be in the interest of poorer specs. (At least I hope not!) I'm not disagreeing with your post, it seems like it might be a little premature to draw some of those conclusions? |
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Post by rbk123 on Mar 22, 2016 8:18:10 GMT -5
Right - no word on Base-X yet, whether A/AB/D/SMPS. Shouldn't be long to wait though.
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Post by DavidR on Mar 22, 2016 8:25:59 GMT -5
Lots of fuzzy math in this thread - double? as in 2X. where?
no credit given if you don't show your work.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 22, 2016 8:38:41 GMT -5
Just to clarify..... The new XPA Gen3 amps are Class A/B amps with a Class H topology and a Switch Mode Power Supply (and modular). The Emersa amps are Class D (ICEpower) amps. The BasX amps are Class A/B amps with regular transformer power supplies. The new amps may be a good deal at the new price, but again they are not the super deal and value of the earlier versions that drew so many to Emotiva. Super deal.........the fact is Emotiva is walking away from what made it successful. The effect in the US is sure as hell unfavourable, but the effect for us international buyers is devastating. I have a real problem with that logic. A product that looks nothing like the Emotiva gear we already have. That costs more and has less watts than previously comparable Emotiva amplifiers. With a change of Class from the well known and liked A and AB to the not so well known D that also suffers from a fair degree of scepticism. To switching power supplies that have a less than stellar reputation. If I was an Emotiva competitor I'd be quite happy with the changes, particularly if I was a direct seller, there is a great big gaping hole in that market now. Cheers Gary |
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Post by seppo on Mar 22, 2016 9:01:27 GMT -5
Just to clarify..... The new XPA Gen3 amps are Class A/B amps with a Class H topology and a Switch Mode Power Supply (and modular). The Emersa amps are Class D (ICEpower) amps. The BasX amps are Class A/B amps with regular transformer power supplies. Super deal.........the fact is Emotiva is walking away from what made it successful. The effect in the US is sure as hell unfavourable, but the effect for us international buyers is devastating. I have a real problem with that logic. A product that looks nothing like the Emotiva gear we already have. That costs more and has less watts than previously comparable Emotiva amplifiers. With a change of Class from the well known and liked A and AB to the not so well known D that also suffers from a fair degree of scepticism. To switching power supplies that have a less than stellar reputation. If I was an Emotiva competitor I'd be quite happy with the changes, particularly if I was a direct seller, there is a great big gaping hole in that market now. Cheers Gary Wow, Internal Combustion Engine powered, and everyone else is in the market is going electric. That's a bold move from Emotiva...  |
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cgolf
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Post by cgolf on Mar 22, 2016 9:16:17 GMT -5
Any good company is always going to continue building and selling new, improved products. A 60% increase is quite a large increase, regardless of the reasons.
I guess all this talk of "how these new amps will sound" negates the argument that all amps sound the same. I guess an amp doesn't just amplify sound, but it also adds it's own signature to the sound... Some would passionately disagree!!! 
If that were the case why so many companies building amps? My SA-250 sounds different than my XPA-2 G2. A resistor here, carbon film vs metal film resistor, cut the resistor rating here, add a higher value there and you change the sound not to mention other layout circuitry and component types. If it was meant that an XPA-2 G2 sounds like an XPA-3 G2, XPA-5 G2 and XPA-7 G2, yeah probably and most likely so. Back in the 80's Carver built their 'M' line of amps and voiced each one different. On purpose. Many were voiced to sound like a particular high-end amp. I've owned several models over the years - all sound different and perform different. This has been a debate, discussion & argument since Adam & Eve. There are 100s of articles out there on the subject. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 22, 2016 9:26:25 GMT -5
Just to clarify..... The new XPA Gen3 amps are Class A/B amps with a Class H topology and a Switch Mode Power Supply (and modular). The Emersa amps are Class D (ICEpower) amps. The BasX amps are Class A/B amps with regular transformer power supplies. Super deal.........the fact is Emotiva is walking away from what made it successful. The effect in the US is sure as hell unfavourable, but the effect for us international buyers is devastating. I have a real problem with that logic. A product that looks nothing like the Emotiva gear we already have. That costs more and has less watts than previously comparable Emotiva amplifiers. With a change of Class from the well known and liked A and AB to the not so well known D that also suffers from a fair degree of scepticism. To switching power supplies that have a less than stellar reputation. If I was an Emotiva competitor I'd be quite happy with the changes, particularly if I was a direct seller, there is a great big gaping hole in that market now. Cheers Gary Thanks Keith. That helps. |
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Post by garbulky on Mar 22, 2016 9:29:39 GMT -5
So is bass-x an extension of the mini-x line? I remember there was talk of having a full exec - mini-x line - of products.
What about those DC-1 size monoblocks I saw. I thought those were class D I think. Is there a fourth line? A emotiva pro line of some sorts?
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cgolf
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Post by cgolf on Mar 22, 2016 10:09:27 GMT -5
Just to clarify..... The new XPA Gen3 amps are Class A/B amps with a Class H topology and a Switch Mode Power Supply (and modular). The Emersa amps are Class D (ICEpower) amps. The BasX amps are Class A/B amps with regular transformer power supplies. Wow, Internal Combustion Engine powered, and everyone else is in the market is going electric. That's a bold move from Emotiva... Seems that the issue and pain we are all feeling is not about "are the new amps / products worth the increased price" but that there is a very different business model that has brought about this huge price increase and it is quite different from what brought many of us to Emotiva. The Emotiva differentiation halo is disappearing and we are experiencing pain & withdrawals!!  |
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Post by smarties on Mar 22, 2016 10:12:10 GMT -5
Wow, Internal Combustion Engine powered, and everyone else is in the market is going electric. That's a bold move from Emotiva... Seems that the issue and pain we are all feeling is not about "are the new amps / products worth the increased price" but that there is a very different business model that has brought about this huge price increase and it is quite different from what brought many of us to Emotiva. The Emotiva differentiation halo is disappearing and we are experiencing pain & withdrawals!! Well there's alway Boulder 3050 monoblocs |
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Post by Gary Cook on Mar 22, 2016 11:06:04 GMT -5
Just to clarify..... The new XPA Gen3 amps are Class A/B amps with a Class H topology and a Switch Mode Power Supply (and modular). The Emersa amps are Class D (ICEpower) amps. The BasX amps are Class A/B amps with regular transformer power supplies. Super deal.........the fact is Emotiva is walking away from what made it successful. The effect in the US is sure as hell unfavourable, but the effect for us international buyers is devastating. I have a real problem with that logic. A product that looks nothing like the Emotiva gear we already have. That costs more and has less watts than previously comparable Emotiva amplifiers. With a change of Class from the well known and liked A and AB to the not so well known D that also suffers from a fair degree of scepticism. To switching power supplies that have a less than stellar reputation. If I was an Emotiva competitor I'd be quite happy with the changes, particularly if I was a direct seller, there is a great big gaping hole in that market now. Thanks Keith, I was getting the Base X's and Emersa's confused, it's been a long day.  Maybe if they were called U's (in lieu of Base X) like in the good old days  Cheers Gary |
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Post by Bonzo on Mar 22, 2016 12:09:52 GMT -5
The new modular amp design has to be more expensive to build – slots, cards, accessibility (you're paying extra for this if you use it or not). Yes, but I wonder where the extra expense of what you mention gets offset by the fact that they are now building less "things." Before all the amps (1, 2, 3, 5 & 7) were totally different beasts. Since we know they built them at different times of the year this wasn't super efficient and probably caused other issues (like QA issues maybe). They were essentially "making" and assembling 5 totally different things. More if you include the XPR series. Now they are essentially "making" 2 things, the chassis and the blades, and assembling more things, quite possibly on a much more made to order basis. The "making" of only 2 things has to be more efficient. It's my opinion that this is the main heart #1 reason why Emotiva has gone back to this modular construction; increased efficiency and better quality control. It also allows for some interesting "quick change" options at lesser overall expense. We now know there will be a fully balanced doublewide blade capable of 500 wpc, with the ability to put 3 blades in one chassis. That's sort of like buying (3) XPA-1s at the same time. We also know that there will be blades (yet unnamed) that will be capable of doing 2 channels each at 150 wpc. As Dan explained, it will be able to do 3 single wide (1 channel) blades at 300 wpc, and 8 channels @ 150 wpc (which I'm interpreting as 4 blades doing 2 channels each @ 150 wpc, but he will have to correct me if I'm wrong). If I'm right, then this also lends itself to a 14 channel amp doing 150 wpc (which they already had years ago so I'm guessing it will be back). And on the far reaches of weirdness, which no one has answered me on yet, it could possibly lead to a double chassis 7.2.4 system of crazy proportions: Chassis #1 = 3 double wide blades @ 500 wpc balanced, and 1 single wide blade @ 300 wpc unbalanced (this is the big question if the single wide unbalanced unit will fit and play nice with the other 3) Chassis #2 = 7 single wide blades @ 300 wpc unbalanced Or if that doesn't work, what about a 7.2.6 system: Chassis #1 = 3 doublewide blades @ 500 wpc balanced Chassis #2 = 4 singlewide blades @ 300 wpc unbalanced, and 3 double channel blades for 6 channels at 150 wpc ceiling speakers Or.......the options become quite a few really. It also allows them to make alterations to only the chassis or only the blades, which could then lend itself to Generation changes happening easier and more quickly. More room for advertising the "new and improved". I'm just talking out loud........... |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Mar 22, 2016 21:54:25 GMT -5
What if someone wants to go from 7 channels to 5 channels? Can these modules be bought and sold in the open market?
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Post by novisnick on Mar 22, 2016 22:31:13 GMT -5
What if someone wants to go from 7 channels to 5 channels? Can these modules be bought and sold in the open market? AH! The new gold standard!!  |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Mar 22, 2016 23:36:41 GMT -5
... Can these modules be bought and sold in the open market? There's a guy with a suitcase full of them in the alley behind Moe's Tavern, tell him Big Danny sent you, the first ones free ... |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Mar 23, 2016 0:07:16 GMT -5
What if someone wants to go from 7 channels to 5 channels? Can these modules be bought and sold in the open market? AH! The new gold standard!! LOL. I thought it was funny too - all that hustling w/ the upgrade card - XMR-1? no XMR-1? It's a bull market..hehe...my buddy is good bc he bought it for $150 when people were in despair. I think if Atmos takes off, the new gen3 amps are perfect for me for the celling speakers. Of course I won't replace my XPRs but for the 4 ceiling speakers, the 4 channel version is perfect! |
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