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Post by yves on Mar 11, 2016 15:07:46 GMT -5
Good article. Wider dynamic range and color gamut are certainly good reasons for upgrading a TV. Resolution per se is not, unless you're sitting very close to the thing. Considering a 4K monitor for my PC. :-). Current vid card supports it. For now, I'm still on an old 42" 1080p TV (LG 42LH5000). It features an unconventional type of backlight technology in that it uses EEFL lamps, or plasma lamps instead of traditional CCFL, and that gives it a maximum brightness of 350 cd/m² and an invisible flicker that, in conjunction with its 2ms Gray-to-Gray response time, significantly helps reduce motion blur just like the more commonly found (nowadays) black frame insertion technique does. Picture quality IMO is still superior overall to that of similarly priced Pioneer Kuro panels from around this same (late 2009) era. (My current Asus notebook PC also can support 4K, as it uses an Intel Core i7-4510U and an Nvidia GeForce 820M, but the UMC-200 doesn't support 4K, and I don't really care). |
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Post by pop on Mar 11, 2016 15:33:57 GMT -5
I look at them everyday and most are total sh**.
Good ones:
Sony XBR65X950B
Sony XBR75X940C
LG 65EF9500/EG9600
the rest are a total waste of money. The samsungs of last year look awful, even their flagship is a total flush down the toilet.
4K isn't stupid though. LED is the problem. The above listed tvs have great up scalers. The OLED however is still inferior in motion handling.
Basically, save your money if you can. I just put up a few of the new Sonys and not very impressed.
Buy audio!
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Post by yves on Mar 11, 2016 17:18:56 GMT -5
I am not supposed to be able to hear the diff between mp3s and cds, but I can. Most of you can too. I am not supposed to be able to see the difference in 4K set unless it is huge or I am up close, but I can. Go to Sam's Club or Best Buy and look for yourself. If you see no improvement, think of the money you saved! Trey Yes, of course I can see the difference if it isn't huge and I'm not up close. Here's how:  |
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Post by dust770 on Mar 11, 2016 18:13:51 GMT -5
Still the biggest issue in my mind is motion blur. It is so obvious to me I can't stand to watch any LCD, and the soap opera mode doesn't really fix it and just makes images move weird. Until they get rid of motion blur or significantly reduce it, I will stick with my plasma upstairs or switch to a projector for my theater room. I still can't believe after all the years LCD has been out they haven't fixed this. Plasma is far superior imo.
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Post by 509Paul on Mar 11, 2016 18:24:52 GMT -5
I just want Panasonic to release their OLED.
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hemster
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Post by hemster on Mar 11, 2016 19:32:58 GMT -5
Still the biggest issue in my mind is motion blur. It is so obvious to me I can't stand to watch any LCD, and the soap opera mode doesn't really fix it and just makes images move weird. Until they get rid of motion blur or significantly reduce it, I will stick with my plasma upstairs or switch to a projector for my theater room. I still can't believe after all the years LCD has been out they haven't fixed this. Plasma is far superior imo. FWIW, LCD projectors can suffer from motion blur too. The older ones used to have a screen door effect but that has largely been resolved in newer models. Just curious, are you susceptible to the rainbow effect on your DLP TV? Larger DLP models are more likely to induce that in some people. I'd love to audition a large OLED TV (65"-90") and see how motion blur is dealt with. Faster refresh rates with almost complete darkness controls would surely help. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 11, 2016 22:56:12 GMT -5
I look at them everyday and most are total sh**. Good ones: Sony XBR65X950B Sony XBR75X940C LG 65EF9500/EG9600 the rest are a total waste of money. The samsungs of last year look awful, even their flagship is a total flush down the toilet. 4K isn't stupid though. LED is the problem. The above listed tvs have great up scalers. The OLED however is still inferior in motion handling. Basically, save your money if you can. I just put up a few of the new Sonys and not very impressed. Buy audio! So, I guess I flushed my money........so sad.......you know what they say about opinions....... |
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Post by novisnick on Mar 11, 2016 23:20:54 GMT -5
I find my 65" Samsung @ 8' viewing distance beautiful, especially when viewing 4K and upscaled video.
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Post by 509Paul on Mar 11, 2016 23:40:27 GMT -5
I would choose superior black levels over higher resolutions. I don't care how great a 4K tv looks as far as clarity, if it can't reproduce a true black it has an inferior picture. With plasma gone I will not buy another tv until OLED is in mass production.
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Post by dust770 on Mar 12, 2016 3:04:27 GMT -5
Still the biggest issue in my mind is motion blur. It is so obvious to me I can't stand to watch any LCD, and the soap opera mode doesn't really fix it and just makes images move weird. Until they get rid of motion blur or significantly reduce it, I will stick with my plasma upstairs or switch to a projector for my theater room. I still can't believe after all the years LCD has been out they haven't fixed this. Plasma is far superior imo. FWIW, LCD projectors can suffer from motion blur too. The older ones used to have a screen door effect but that has largely been resolved in newer models. Just curious, are you susceptible to the rainbow effect on your DLP TV? Larger DLP models are more likely to induce that in some people. I'd love to audition a large OLED TV (65"-90") and see how motion blur is dealt with. Faster refresh rates with almost complete darkness controls would surely help. I noticed the rainbow effect with my 61 inch Samsung dlp but moved that into a different room. I got a 73 inch Mitsubishi dlp and never noticed the rainbowing on it. I have been quite happy with it as my room is pitch black and that tv loves it! Curious though, is there non LCD projectors out? I haven't researched it and won't really bother till my dlp goes out. That would be a deal breaker for me on a projector as well. |
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Post by yves on Mar 12, 2016 4:28:00 GMT -5
Still the biggest issue in my mind is motion blur. It is so obvious to me I can't stand to watch any LCD, and the soap opera mode doesn't really fix it and just makes images move weird. Until they get rid of motion blur or significantly reduce it, I will stick with my plasma upstairs or switch to a projector for my theater room. I still can't believe after all the years LCD has been out they haven't fixed this. Plasma is far superior imo. If you look at a white ball moving across a black background on a plasma panel, you will see a comet-like trail due to the phosphor's slow cooldown effect. So no, motion blur on a plasma isn't better than a fast LCD. The EEFL lamps in my LCD are internally coated with phosphor too. But the fast response time of the LCD is why, in pure terms of motion blur, you don't notice the phosphor's cooldown effect in these lamps as much. The main sacrifice in LCD is poor black levels as you stated. But I keep my room well lit so I don't notice it that much. Even if I sit in a totally dark room, the maximum brightness of Pioneer Kuro panels that were around the same price as my LG LCD at the time when I bought it is poor also. Main reason you don't hear plasma advocates complain about poor brightness is called misinformation. And then I haven't even begun to mention things like noise resulting from the dither that plsma panels rely on, color banding, image retention problems that never were completely solved anyway, extra heat generation due to more power consumption, MTBF rates,... the list goes on. So this is why plasma couldn't keep up with technological evolution. And this is why plasma went the way of the dud. It certainly didn't go the way of the dud because of how "far superior" you think it really is. It's not.  |
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Post by dust770 on Mar 12, 2016 5:31:53 GMT -5
Still the biggest issue in my mind is motion blur. It is so obvious to me I can't stand to watch any LCD, and the soap opera mode doesn't really fix it and just makes images move weird. Until they get rid of motion blur or significantly reduce it, I will stick with my plasma upstairs or switch to a projector for my theater room. I still can't believe after all the years LCD has been out they haven't fixed this. Plasma is far superior imo. If you look at a white ball moving across a black background on a plasma panel, you will see a comet-like trail due to the phosphor's slow cooldown effect. So no, motion blur on a plasma isn't better than a fast LCD. The EEFL lamps in my LCD are internally coated with phosphor too. But the fast response time of the LCD is why, in pure terms of motion blur, you don't notice the phosphor's cooldown effect in these lamps as much. The main sacrifice in LCD is poor black levels as you stated. But I keep my room well lit so I don't notice it that much. Even if I sit in a totally dark room, the maximum brightness of Pioneer Kuro panels that were around the same price as my LG LCD at the time when I bought it is poor also. Main reason you don't hear plasma advocates complain about poor brightness is called misinformation. And then I haven't even begun to mention things like noise resulting from the dither that plsma panels rely on, color banding, image retention problems that never were completely solved anyway, extra heat generation due to more power consumption, MTBF rates,... the list goes on. So this is why plasma couldn't keep up with technological evolution. And this is why plasma went the way of the dud. It certainly didn't go the way of the dud because of how "far superior" you think it really is. It's not. I take it you own an LCD? But here's the thing as I stated plasma is far superior "in my opinion" I've never noticed any comet effect on my plasma, but every LCD I've ever seen and we are talking in the dozens over the years, i.e. Stores, friends house , I even brought two different ones home(which were promptly returned) etc.. Every one of them is a jumbled mess around running feet, fast action etc. my eyes simply pick this up and I can't get past it. I'm not attempting to get into a tech debate simply a personal opinion. |
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Post by yves on Mar 12, 2016 6:52:04 GMT -5
If you look at a white ball moving across a black background on a plasma panel, you will see a comet-like trail due to the phosphor's slow cooldown effect. So no, motion blur on a plasma isn't better than a fast LCD. The EEFL lamps in my LCD are internally coated with phosphor too. But the fast response time of the LCD is why, in pure terms of motion blur, you don't notice the phosphor's cooldown effect in these lamps as much. The main sacrifice in LCD is poor black levels as you stated. But I keep my room well lit so I don't notice it that much. Even if I sit in a totally dark room, the maximum brightness of Pioneer Kuro panels that were around the same price as my LG LCD at the time when I bought it is poor also. Main reason you don't hear plasma advocates complain about poor brightness is called misinformation. And then I haven't even begun to mention things like noise resulting from the dither that plsma panels rely on, color banding, image retention problems that never were completely solved anyway, extra heat generation due to more power consumption, MTBF rates,... the list goes on. So this is why plasma couldn't keep up with technological evolution. And this is why plasma went the way of the dud. It certainly didn't go the way of the dud because of how "far superior" you think it really is. It's not. I take it you own an LCD? But here's the thing as I stated plasma is far superior "in my opinion" I've never noticed any comet effect on my plasma, but every LCD I've ever seen and we are talking in the dozens over the years, i.e. Stores, friends house , I even brought two different ones home(which were promptly returned) etc.. Every one of them is a jumbled mess around running feet, fast action etc. my eyes simply pick this up and I can't get past it. I'm not attempting to get into a tech debate simply a personal opinion. This is why I was talking about not just every traditional LCD you've ever seen, but a really very *fast* LCD, which, obviously, you haven't seen. Even though response times can be measured different ways so they usually have to be taken with a grain of salt, 2ms response time (Gray-to-Gray) isn't exactly slow, even by today's standards — especially if used in conjunction with the invisible flicker that occurs in the EEFL (External Electrode Fluorescent Lamp) backlight. www.rtings.com/tv/tests/sports/motion-blur-and-response-time |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 12, 2016 7:53:41 GMT -5
I would choose superior black levels over higher resolutions. I don't care how great a 4K tv looks as far as clarity, if it can't reproduce a true black it has an inferior picture. With plasma gone I will not buy another tv until OLED is in mass production. I said the same thing until my set went south and found OLED to be too expensive for now and still questionable when it comes to longevity. |
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Post by vneal on Mar 12, 2016 8:13:23 GMT -5
what is stupid about having sota
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Post by yves on Mar 12, 2016 8:56:01 GMT -5
what is stupid about having sota Nothing, but 4K and SOTA aren't necessarily always the same thing. To a large degree, that's why 4K used to be not just stupid, but very amazingly stupid.  |
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Post by pop on Mar 12, 2016 9:59:28 GMT -5
I look at them everyday and most are total sh**. Good ones: Sony XBR65X950B Sony XBR75X940C LG 65EF9500/EG9600 the rest are a total waste of money. The samsungs of last year look awful, even their flagship is a total flush down the toilet. 4K isn't stupid though. LED is the problem. The above listed tvs have great up scalers. The OLED however is still inferior in motion handling. Basically, save your money if you can. I just put up a few of the new Sonys and not very impressed. Buy audio! So, I guess I flushed my money........so sad.......you know what they say about opinions....... Well, it's not your fault. It's more of a manufacturer issue. Sorry to offend you bud, your options were very limited. I get mad at them daily for charging what they do for the product they are putting out. Even the national account reps will verify my statements. It's a known industry problem. |
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Post by drtrey3 on Mar 12, 2016 10:17:10 GMT -5
Yves, think of the money you just saved!
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Post by yves on Mar 12, 2016 10:23:17 GMT -5
So, I guess I flushed my money........so sad.......you know what they say about opinions....... Well, it's not your fault. It's more of a manufacturer issue. Sorry to offend you bud, your options were very limited. I get mad at them daily for charging what they do for the product they are putting out. Even the national account reps will verify my statements. It's a known industry problem. It reminds me of the movie Bridge of Spies — where the guy asks "are you not worried?"  |
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Post by yves on Mar 12, 2016 10:26:59 GMT -5
Yves, think of the money you just saved! I didn't save any money. I've spent all of it on things like music and beer.  ...Oh and, Steak Friet!  |
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