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Post by Axis on Jul 19, 2016 16:32:27 GMT -5
Thanks Hair Nick. Your Gen 3 is going to be big sales. You guys got it right. The so many ways you can have this amp is so cool. It is just going to take a little time for everyone to figure it out.  |
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Post by goodfellas27 on Jul 19, 2016 21:58:03 GMT -5
Xpa7 Signal to noise seems worse that gen2. Also, these numbers were taken back in February; what took so long?
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Jul 20, 2016 10:25:50 GMT -5
It's clarifying time...... The power transformer is NOT in the signal path - which means that it does not contribute directly to the sound of a piece of equipment. The power transformer is part of the power supply, and the power supply simply puts out the various DC voltages that the rest of the amplifier runs on. Different types of transformers have different strengths and weaknesses. For example, toroidal transformers tend to have a low output impedance (good), low flux leakage (good), a physically convenient shape (good), but be somewhat sensitive to saturation if there's DC on the AC line voltage (not so good). The only reason why one or the other type of transformer would sound "better", or be specifically audible at all, would be if it happens to meet the requirements of a particular design better than another type. (For example, if you characterize a higher level of second harmonic distortion as sounding "warmer", then a transformer with a higher secondary impedance, and so poorer regulation, may sound "warmer" to you.) However, it's also true that most modern solid state amplifier circuitry is largely immune to sounding audibly different due to variations in power supply characteristics. (In contrast, the characteristics of the power supply often have a significant audible effect on tube equipment.) With most modern solid state equipment, if a certain manufacturer's products all share a specific "house sound", it's usually intentional... and is a form of "branding". Here at Emotiva, we generally do our best to deliver a neutral sound - which is our idea of what "high fidelity" is supposed to be.... (I guess you could say that that's our "house sound"  ) "Compared to Yamaha, Onkyo and Integra which in my experience and reviews have a more neutral sound. " Those have EI transformers, generally. That's if you think power supply changes the tone in sound...which I doubt. |
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Post by Cogito on Jul 20, 2016 10:32:51 GMT -5
It's clarifying time...... The power transformer is NOT in the signal path - which means that it does not contribute directly to the sound of a piece of equipment. The power transformer is part of the power supply, and the power supply simply puts out the various DC voltages that the rest of the amplifier runs on. Different types of transformers have different strengths and weaknesses. For example, toroidal transformers tend to have a low output impedance (good), low flux leakage (good), a physically convenient shape (good), but be somewhat sensitive to saturation if there's DC on the AC line voltage (not so good). The only reason why one or the other type of transformer would sound "better", or be specifically audible at all, would be if it happens to meet the requirements of a particular design better than another type. (For example, if you characterize a higher level of second harmonic distortion as sounding "warmer", then a transformer with a higher secondary impedance, and so poorer regulation, may sound "warmer" to you.) However, it's also true that most modern solid state amplifier circuitry is largely immune to sounding audibly different due to variations in power supply characteristics. (In contrast, the characteristics of the power supply often have a significant audible effect on tube equipment.) With most modern solid state equipment, if a certain manufacturer's products all share a specific "house sound", it's usually intentional... and is a form of "branding". Here at Emotiva, we generally do our best to deliver a neutral sound - which is our idea of what "high fidelity" is supposed to be.... (I guess you could say that that's our "house sound" ) "Compared to Yamaha, Onkyo and Integra which in my experience and reviews have a more neutral sound. " Those have EI transformers, generally. That's if you think power supply changes the tone in sound...which I doubt. Keith, I think you and I should start hanging together so some of your schmarts can rub off on me! YOU are the master of Anti-BS! |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Jul 20, 2016 10:49:41 GMT -5
Accurately measuring signal-to-noise ratio is tricky, especially when you're talking about VERY high numbers - in the 100 dB range. You can get very different numbers depending on your test setup and the associated equipment when you run the test. While we do lots of interim "spot testing", those tests produce "numbers on a screen" rather than nice legible reports; The reports we published are the latest set of complete test results (properly labelled and annotated). The specs we publish are derived both from the "formal reports" and from the results of lots of tests we run individually. We've adjusted the published specs to agree more closely with the "formal reports" where we felt it was appropriate. (However, we always encourage people to spend their time listening to our equipment rather than measuring it.  ) Xpa7 Signal to noise seems worse that gen2. Also, these numbers were taken back in February; what took so long? |
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hemster
Global Moderator
Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,950
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Post by hemster on Jul 20, 2016 12:02:09 GMT -5
...(However, we always encourage people to spend their time listening to our equipment rather than measuring it. ) Sage advice! I find it more soothing to listen than read! |
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Lonnie
Emo Staff
admin
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
Posts: 6,999
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Post by Lonnie on Jul 22, 2016 16:45:34 GMT -5
Dan noticed an error in the test fixture which would account for the data errors. So I will get the rig fixed and we will rerun them.
Sorry for the confusion here guys.
Lonnie
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Post by gzubeck on Jul 23, 2016 2:25:00 GMT -5
It's clarifying time...... The power transformer is NOT in the signal path - which means that it does not contribute directly to the sound of a piece of equipment. The power transformer is part of the power supply, and the power supply simply puts out the various DC voltages that the rest of the amplifier runs on. Different types of transformers have different strengths and weaknesses. For example, toroidal transformers tend to have a low output impedance (good), low flux leakage (good), a physically convenient shape (good), but be somewhat sensitive to saturation if there's DC on the AC line voltage (not so good). The only reason why one or the other type of transformer would sound "better", or be specifically audible at all, would be if it happens to meet the requirements of a particular design better than another type. (For example, if you characterize a higher level of second harmonic distortion as sounding "warmer", then a transformer with a higher secondary impedance, and so poorer regulation, may sound "warmer" to you.) However, it's also true that most modern solid state amplifier circuitry is largely immune to sounding audibly different due to variations in power supply characteristics. (In contrast, the characteristics of the power supply often have a significant audible effect on tube equipment.) With most modern solid state equipment, if a certain manufacturer's products all share a specific "house sound", it's usually intentional... and is a form of "branding". Here at Emotiva, we generally do our best to deliver a neutral sound - which is our idea of what "high fidelity" is supposed to be.... (I guess you could say that that's our "house sound" ) "Compared to Yamaha, Onkyo and Integra which in my experience and reviews have a more neutral sound. " Those have EI transformers, generally. That's if you think power supply changes the tone in sound...which I doubt. Here's where we depart...the Japanese and American high end amplifier manufacturers worked very hard to cleanup the power delivery to their amplifiers. Ever hear of the insane hand made transformers made by the Japanese to completely eliminate hum and vibration. Ever hear of the potted transformers of Harman Kardon, kenwood trio, Macintosh etc. I really do believe that the summation of high quality parts makes a difference up to a point. Those over engineered parts need to prove that they affect the quality of the sound and are reasonably economical. I'm not going to pay $100 for silver and gold tinfoil capacitors when a $10 one will do the job in a passive crossover. But when it come to electrolytics I can hear noticeable differences in quality high powered Panasonic caps in the power supply. The power delivery is sustained longer giving deeper base as well as dead silent backgrounds that help with natural timber and imaging. Some parts are bogus and some make a difference. |
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Post by wilburthegoose on Jul 24, 2016 7:52:13 GMT -5
I'd love to see a table that has the numbers for Gen2 in a column next to the Gen3 numbers. Obviously the quality of the amp isn't only told by numbers, but they do offer a method to compare.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 24, 2016 23:30:38 GMT -5
I'd love to see a table that has the numbers for Gen2 in a column next to the Gen3 numbers. Obviously the quality of the amp isn't only told by numbers, but they do offer a method to compare. Here's what I came up with: (click to read) (Edited: Updated numbers)  |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2016 4:42:45 GMT -5
I'd love to see a table that has the numbers for Gen2 in a column next to the Gen3 numbers. Obviously the quality of the amp isn't only told by numbers, but they do offer a method to compare. Here's what I came up with: Weight 72.6 lbs (XPA-2 G2) 35.5 lbs (XPA-Two G3)
IMO, Weight Matters! |
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Post by smarties on Jul 25, 2016 6:00:37 GMT -5
XPA Gen 2 has better specs. Lower THD, better SNR
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Post by vcautokid on Jul 25, 2016 6:12:57 GMT -5
I agree. I Never let specs get in the way of listening to great music. While specs have their place. I would rather read what is new to listen too, than worry about something that takes me away from listening. Happy listening everyone.
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Post by wilburthegoose on Jul 25, 2016 18:27:29 GMT -5
Agree too. So how does Gen 3 sound vs Gen 2?
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Post by rbk123 on Jul 25, 2016 21:28:36 GMT -5
XPA Gen 2 has better specs. Lower THD, better SNR I'm curious if that's also true for the XPR amps, since the Gen3 are XPR technology. Not curious enough to do the legwork (too lazy), though.... |
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klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,086
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Post by klinemj on Jul 26, 2016 6:53:56 GMT -5
Lonnie refers to data errors. I am not sure what the errors are, but I would not pay much attention to the data until I hear that is resolved.
Mark
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2016 5:18:49 GMT -5
Sorry, If I'm blind but I don't see any AP report for the Gen3 under resources. |
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Post by Axis on Jul 27, 2016 5:35:45 GMT -5
Sorry, If I'm blind but I don't see any AP report for the Gen3 under resources.Looks like they pulled reports down. Lonnie said there were errors and they would rerun them. |
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Post by Hair Nick on Jul 27, 2016 8:20:15 GMT -5
Sorry, If I'm blind but I don't see any AP report for the Gen3 under resources.Looks like they pulled reports down. Lonnie said there were errors and they would rerun them. Yeah guys, Dan found some issues. We will work to get the new data up as soon as we can. |
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