LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Mar 18, 2016 16:24:02 GMT -5
Just in case you were wondering, there will be a new generation Mini-X sometime soon. (Rumors are that it might even have a... gasp... headphone output... ). But no details yet...  There are also power amps in the BasX series near the top of that price range. I had a feeling that Lonnie would have such a beast up his sleeve!!!  |
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Post by brutiarti on Mar 18, 2016 16:27:52 GMT -5
Just in case you were wondering, there will be a new generation Mini-X sometime soon. (Rumors are that it might even have a... gasp... headphone output... ). But no details yet... There are also power amps in the BasX series near the top of that price range. What concerns me is that there will be no high quality solutions under $500 dollars. Im using the mini- a100 and would like to see something a little beefier and cleaner for two channel setups but im not sure we will see anything like that going forward. I would like to remind emotiva that continuing to raise prices is going to send alot of customers looking elswhere. My perception is that emotiva is now looking to compete on the factory direct high end which saves you 25-50% of retail prices. You are now competing with every high end manufacturer in the marketplace when your prices start at $1000. Even your $500 two channel amp has alot of competition even on the retail level. I really get the feeling that initial adopters are paying the the r&d on this product. Remote control please |
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ilok
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Post by ilok on Mar 18, 2016 19:25:43 GMT -5
What concerns me is that there will be no high quality solutions under $500 dollars. Im using the mini- a100 and would like to see something a little beefier and cleaner for two channel setups but im not sure we will see anything like that going forward. I would like to remind emotiva that continuing to raise prices is going to send alot of customers looking elswhere. My perception is that emotiva is now looking to compete on the factory direct high end which saves you 25-50% of retail prices. You are now competing with every high end manufacturer in the marketplace when your prices start at $1000. Even your $500 two channel amp has alot of competition even on the retail level. I really get the feeling that initial adopters are paying the the r&d on this product. Nothing beats active monitors for bang for the buck. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 18, 2016 20:00:39 GMT -5
Yeah...I think I paid about $800 for my XPA-5 brand new on sale. I would have to pay double for the new version today. I realize it may be better, but that much? Just thinking out loud. I paid $600 for a 6 month old gen 1 XPA-5. I sold that and bought my XPR-5.... I thought it was well worth the upgrade price but it's all relative. What are you powering? If someone is powering $300 bookshelves or some Cerwin Vegas, I'd say upgrade the speakers. But like me at the time when I upgrade 15 year old DefTechs to my Revel Performa3s, it made sense to get an amp that I can set and forget. I honestly find amplifiers one of the least interesting components but I want my amps to be able to laugh at whatever I throw at it. The XPA-5 wasn't quite up to that task with my Revels. If the gen3 is lives up to its billing, it'll be a set and forget it amp too. I'll find out at Audiogon. Powering Thiel CS1.6 mains, Thiel SCS3 center, Emotiva ERD rear surrounds. The XPA-5 handles them with ease. |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Mar 18, 2016 22:20:16 GMT -5
Powering Thiel CS1.6 mains, Thiel SCS3 center, Emotiva ERD rear surrounds. The XPA-5 handles them with ease. Yes that makes sense. Sounds like a good match! I wouldn't go much higher than the XPA-5 either with those speakers. Good balance. |
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Post by Nodscene on Mar 18, 2016 22:45:13 GMT -5
Thanks for the comment Keith. I guess there aren't a lot of 2 ohm speakers out there anyways so losing that market share probably isn't a concern vs the extra cost in ensuring that your amps can be safely recommended for 2 ohm loads. And yes, I'm talking about all of the amps you offered and not just the new lineup. Especially at the price point you offer your amps for. It does make sense from a business standpoint so I get it. It must be very difficult balancing the cost of a new product line vs what you want to sell it for vs what the market will bear vs your past price points etc etc. As was mentioned the increased costs of the 5+ channels amps isn't insignificant and really does move you into the territory of non-ID companies from a casual observers point of view. It will be interesting to see how well these are received as the pressure to greatly outperform amps in a similar price range must be substantial, given that you've been successful in the past in that regard. It's been mentioned a few times that these new XPA amps are somewhat similar to the XPR lineup so that's a pretty impressive feat given the price point. Really the only concern I would have if I was in the market for a new amp is the drop in wattage when adding more modules. I know that even a hundred watts difference between two amps would most likely not be noticeable except for certain circumstances but you know how people are. Was that ever a concern when considering the new power supply? The reason I ask and the reason why I'm not as certain about it now is the difference my Cinepro amp made in my system compared to the JBL Synthesis amp that it replaced which was surprisingly significant. Of course the large increase in wattage (300 or 400 watts into 8 ohms for the Cinepro vs the 135 for the JBL) may not be the actual reason for the audible differences. In case anyone is curious, I found that things like the attack on the snare was much more pronounced and lifelike. I guess it's possible the amp is just quicker, making those kinds of things much more apparent. Given both amps were close in price when originally sold is also another reason why I was a bit shocked there was any difference at all. I wasn't expecting anything different sound wise between the two except the potential for the Cinepro to play louder. Thanks and sorry for any rambling I just find this stuff endlessly fascinating. Cheers All of our amps are stable into 2 ohms - but there's a distinction between "being stable into 2 ohms" and "being RATED for a 2 ohm load". Most speakers dip well below their rated impedance at certain points in their frequency range. Therefore, a significant number of "4 ohm" speakers actually drop to 3 ohms, or even 2 ohms, at some point. (And many "8 ohm" speakers drop to 6 ohms or 4 ohms in places.) All of our amps will work just fine with any of those speakers. (But some other amps, which are NOT stable into 2 ohms, may not.) However, when we talk about "recommended load impedance", we're talking about being able to run at high power for extended periods of time into that load. The reality is that ANY Class A/B amplifier that is designed to work well with 8 ohm or 4 ohm speakers will be operating VERY inefficiently into a 2 ohm load. In short, all of our amps will work just fine with a speaker that dips to 2 ohms in places - especially with music which doesn't require full power output continuously. They will cheerfully deliver lots of power into 2 ohms for short periods of time. (And, because of our Optimized Class H architecture, the new XPA Gen3 amps should run cooler that way than the previous XPA Gen2 models.) However, we don't at all recommend that you do stuff like run full power tests into a 2 ohm test resistor - because they will probably eventually overheat. (The only amps we make which would be really unhappy playing music into a speaker that dips down that low would be the XPA-2 Gen1 or the XPA-2 Gen2 - running in bridged mode.) |
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Post by novisnick on Mar 18, 2016 23:56:08 GMT -5
Lonnie Vaughn on the XPA gen3 Trailer
did I miss this somewhere???
We are ready for this video our friend!! 
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Post by Gary Cook on Mar 19, 2016 2:45:36 GMT -5
An example of what Keith said, I'm using an XPA-100 as sub amp, (best sub amp I have ever had). It's rated at 400 watts into 4 ohms. But my 17" sub driver gets below 2 ohms at some frequencies. The XPA-100 handles it easily, sounds great, doesn't lose control, doesn't over heat, trip or even feel like it's remotely close to it. Demonstrating the difference between a power amps rating (4 ohms) and what it can handle (less than 2 ohms).
Cheers
Gary
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Post by bolle on Mar 19, 2016 7:42:30 GMT -5
My once owned 7-350 now sits with a friend of mine. He is using it for his entire System - 5 JBL Studio Speakers (L80 and L90) and 2 Eminence Lab 12 - works great! keith: I am really looking Forward to see how your SMPS will perform in the wild and in the Long run. In the UMC-200 it seems there was a design flaw (C18 and C19), even if it wasn´t a Major one. That SMPS also sens back "garbage" into the Powerline, at least in my system. My current amps do that too, if I Switch them on sometimes the HDMI Connection to my projector is lost for a few seconds. And that SMPS is designed by engineers with B&O experience together with Camco, People I think know how to do something like this. I am personally also worried about the longetivity of SMPS - but that we will find out sooner or later. I currently have running in my house: - The digital amps with SMPS (Pascal Audio S-Pro 2) in my home Cinema - A digital amp with a classical power supply in one of my living rooms (Hifiakademie Poweramp) - A 30 years old A/B integrated amp with a 400VA transformer for each channel in my Office (Pioneer A-77x) All have their merits but for me SMPS in modern amps still have to Show if they will still be going as strong as e.g. my old Pioneer 30 years from now. |
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Post by Dan Laufman on Mar 19, 2016 8:12:23 GMT -5
What concerns me is that there will be no high quality solutions under $500 dollars. Im using the mini- a100 and would like to see something a little beefier and cleaner for two channel setups but im not sure we will see anything like that going forward. I would like to remind emotiva that continuing to raise prices is going to send alot of customers looking elswhere. My perception is that emotiva is now looking to compete on the factory direct high end which saves you 25-50% of retail prices. You are now competing with every high end manufacturer in the marketplace when your prices start at $1000. Even your $500 two channel amp has alot of competition even on the retail level. I really get the feeling that initial adopters are paying the the r&d on this product. Grasshopper my son, You are assuming the Emotiva is abandoning our core value principles... We are not! As has been rumored here, Emotiva will be showing some VERY exiciting new amplifier and preamplifier products at Axpona with prices starting at $299.00. Keep the faith, we are interested in servicing all of our customers at all price points with high value, great sounding products... Except for the Rolls Royce crowd, that's not us. Although they may find they don't need to spend $10k for a nice amp if they give us a listen Those of you that think we have raised our prices to accommodate dealers are dead wrong. We have taken a margin hit in order to bring the brand to more customers who might never discover us. The new Gen 3 amplifiers are more expensive designs, and IMO, better products the the ones they replace. And they cost more to build. This is why they are more expensive. But, they are MUCH less expensive that any truly competitive product out there. I believe this will be proven once people get their hands on these wonderful new amps. Look at the competition, compare real value for the dollar, and I believe you are going to see that we are staying true to our principles. Cheers, Big Dan |
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Post by ejn1111 on Mar 19, 2016 8:49:15 GMT -5
I was really considering trying a new 7 channel Gen 3 amp but was bummed out to see its 19 inches deep  With heavy speaker cables and XLRs it is just too deep in my cabinet. I would say if designing a new product on the basis of being lighter and running cooler (among other attributes), this is a great attribute for tucking amps in a cabinet so depth is a consideration. I have a Parasound A21 sitting in a box for over a year because its deep and runs hot so its locations are limited. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Mar 19, 2016 9:55:01 GMT -5
I was really considering trying a new 7 channel Gen 3 amp but was bummed out to see its 19 inches deep With heavy speaker cables and XLRs it is just too deep in my cabinet. I would say if designing a new product on the basis of being lighter and running cooler (among other attributes), this is a great attribute for tucking amps in a cabinet so depth is a consideration. I have a Parasound A21 sitting in a box for over a year because its deep and runs hot so its locations are limited. Maybe a new cabinet? |
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Post by smarties on Mar 19, 2016 10:06:28 GMT -5
Or just pull the amps forward. My ATI's are pretty deep, the depth of the feet is on the glass but the amps stick out a fair bit front & back.
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Post by charlieu on Mar 19, 2016 10:49:42 GMT -5
However, to be totally fair, prices DO go up... especially over time... and that includes the price of parts... not to mention American labor (vs Chinese). (I may be dating myself, but I distinctly remember being annoyed when gasoline went up from 28 cents a gallon to 33 cents a gallon.) So, if you want to be fair, then you need to compare the prices to those of other products of equal or better performance. And, if you do, I think you'll find out that our prices are still VERY reasonable. My fully loaded MPS-1 started life at $2K around 2005 so it doesn't look like you increased prices even a penny.  Hopefully the sound quality will be as good as or better than it. You have me sold with the lighter weight and hopefully a trigger input that will work with the XMC-1. |
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Post by cheddar on Mar 19, 2016 11:18:22 GMT -5
But like me at the time when I upgrade 15 year old DefTechs to my Revel Performa3s, it made sense to get an amp that I can set and forget. I honestly find amplifiers one of the least interesting components but I want my amps to be able to laugh at whatever I throw at it. The XPA-5 wasn't quite up to that task with my Revels. If the gen3 is lives up to its billing, it'll be a set and forget it amp too. If 200 watts per channel at 8 ohms 0.1% thd isn't MORE than adequately powering a 8 ohm, 89 decibel @ 1 watt at 1 meter-effecient speaker with power to spare, then there must be a defect with either the amp or speaker. I would contact the manufacturer. |
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Post by repeetavx on Mar 19, 2016 11:25:21 GMT -5
Keep the faith, we are interested in servicing all of our customers at all price points with high value, great sounding products... Except for the Rolls Royce crowd, that's not us. Although they may find they don't need to spend $10k for a nice amp if they give us a listen. I've been paying attention to this discussion for the last couple of days now and this is what I've come up with. Emotiva is giving up it's reference (Rolls Royce) line and the XPA series will be their top line. The XPA line is getting reference line technology incorporated into them. There will be a Base X line of affordable but great performing amplifiers coming. So from what I can figure, Emotiva is going from a three line "line up" to a two line "line up". The top of the two lines will be the XPA line. These will have "near" reference level sound without the "no holds barred" accouterments. While the Base X line will have the Classic X line sound, without the "overbuilt" chassis and the "extra" punch. I'm just trying to read between the lines here and figure things out. |
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Post by smarties on Mar 19, 2016 11:25:37 GMT -5
With my 4 ohm speakers, 90dB, 7 foot, 300W into 4 ohm I get 117dB output
lol
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Post by mgbpuff on Mar 19, 2016 11:42:00 GMT -5
Keep the faith, we are interested in servicing all of our customers at all price points with high value, great sounding products... Except for the Rolls Royce crowd, that's not us. Although they may find they don't need to spend $10k for a nice amp if they give us a listen. I've been paying attention to this discussion for the last couple of days now and this is what I've come up with. Emotiva is giving up it's reference (Rolls Royce) line and the XPA series will be their top line. The XPA line is getting reference line technology incorporated into them. There will be a Base X line of affordable but great performing amplifiers coming. So from what I can figure, Emotiva is going from a three line "line up" to a two line "line up". The top of the two lines will be the XPA line. These will have "near" reference level sound without the "no holds barred" accouterments. While the Base X line will have the Classic X line sound, without the "overbuilt" chassis and the "extra" punch. I'm just trying to read between the lines here and figure things out. You forgot about the Emersa line, so far there appears to be three lines. As to a reference line, I think Emotiva needs this to challenge their engineering team to come up with innovations that will keep them competitive in the future. Reference products can be higher priced and therefore slower moving but still below the ridiculous high end rip off products. It's healthy to have an all out top line. |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Mar 19, 2016 11:51:56 GMT -5
What concerns me is that there will be no high quality solutions under $500 dollars. Im using the mini- a100 and would like to see something a little beefier and cleaner for two channel setups but im not sure we will see anything like that going forward. I would like to remind emotiva that continuing to raise prices is going to send alot of customers looking elswhere. My perception is that emotiva is now looking to compete on the factory direct high end which saves you 25-50% of retail prices. You are now competing with every high end manufacturer in the marketplace when your prices start at $1000. Even your $500 two channel amp has alot of competition even on the retail level. I really get the feeling that initial adopters are paying the the r&d on this product. You will be able to pick up a used XPA-5 for about that once these go on sale. I have one and I'm not getting rid of it until it dies. But there are many folks who will upgrade so patience. |
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Post by ejn1111 on Mar 19, 2016 11:54:07 GMT -5
I was really considering trying a new 7 channel Gen 3 amp but was bummed out to see its 19 inches deep With heavy speaker cables and XLRs it is just too deep in my cabinet. I would say if designing a new product on the basis of being lighter and running cooler (among other attributes), this is a great attribute for tucking amps in a cabinet so depth is a consideration. I have a Parasound A21 sitting in a box for over a year because its deep and runs hot so its locations are limited. Maybe a new cabinet? i have built in's otherwise i could remove the back and pull out a bit |
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With heavy speaker cables and XLRs it is just too deep in my cabinet. I would say if designing a new product on the basis of being lighter and running cooler (among other attributes), this is a great attribute for tucking amps in a cabinet so depth is a consideration. I have a Parasound A21 sitting in a box for over a year because its deep and runs hot so its locations are limited. 
Hopefully the sound quality will be as good as or better than it. You have me sold with the lighter weight and hopefully a trigger input that will work with the XMC-1.
