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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 7:46:26 GMT -5
What would the thinking be that would cause anyone to say room correction isn't needed on height channels spkrs?? Jeff Poor knowledge of atmos? |
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Post by pepar on Jun 18, 2016 8:10:50 GMT -5
Deeper ... and broader .... than that, I'd think. Jeff |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 8:14:31 GMT -5
Deeper ... and broader .... than that, I'd think. Jeff Ideally RC should ebb used on every speaker in the room. Saying otherwise is just plain wrong |
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Post by markymiles on Jun 18, 2016 10:14:22 GMT -5
Well I've seen it said a few times. Mostly from people that don't have eq/Dirac on all the channels. ie Single Minidsp 88A owners and similarly for Arcam 550/850 owners. I guess being only height effects they convince themselves it sounds fine as is. Yesterday heard an Arcam 550 with minidsp 88A doing the 4 heights. Perfect bubble of sound. Should be what we're going to experience, very exciting.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2016 13:00:45 GMT -5
Well I've seen it said a few times. Mostly from people that don't have eq/Dirac on all the channels. ie Single Minidsp 88A owners and similarly for Arcam 550/850 owners. I guess being only height effects they convince themselves it sounds fine as is. Yesterday heard an Arcam 550 with minidsp 88A doing the 4 heights. Perfect bubble of sound. Should be what we're going to experience, very exciting. Considering I have the Dirac 88a and don't have the ceiling channels corrected I fee qualified to comment Yes it still sound incredible. But would it sound better with all channels rc'd? Absolutely. In fact there are some that run two 88a's and nite significant improvement by all of the speakers beings rc'ed |
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Post by flamingeye on Jun 19, 2016 17:48:53 GMT -5
OK you all got my attention again , the XMC-1 3gen 7.2.4 is now on my list of upgrades in 2017 . I knew emotiva was going to get there eventually even thou there where many here saying more speakers are a gimmick. the 7.2.4 configuration is perfect and actually the limit on how many speakers my living/home theater can accommodate without my wife throwing me out .
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Post by wizardofoz on Jun 19, 2016 22:46:35 GMT -5
My wife would rather I throw out the XMC-1's all together but that means a massive rethink of the HT side of things in 2 rooms (2 x xmc-1's) and I am not a fan of dumping gear that I like (despite the firmware issues with DSD etc that still are not fixed  ) and got at reasonable cost - albeit still not cheap. I doubt I am about to go into 4K anytime soon nor Atmos or much beyond 5.1 for that matter, perhaps 6/7.1 at most. I just really want the bugs fixed with DSD on a product that has waned in firmware support for a year now. And while the LAN streaming it was meant to have was cut, There are other options out there that make up for it. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jun 19, 2016 23:03:48 GMT -5
My wife would rather I throw out the XMC-1's all together but that means a massive rethink of the HT side of things in 2 rooms (2 x xmc-1's) and I am not a fan of dumping gear that I like (despite the firmware issues with DSD etc that still are not fixed ) and got at reasonable cost - albeit still not cheap. I doubt I am about to go into 4K anytime soon nor Atmos or much beyond 5.1 for that matter, perhaps 6/7.1 at most. I just really want the bugs fixed with DSD on a product that has waned in firmware support for a year now. And while the LAN streaming it was meant to have was cut, There are other options out there that make up for it. I have no use for DSD or LAN streaming but having listened to it 5.1.2 has appeal and it will suite my lounge room. I could fit an XMC-1 into my suitcase for a round trip to Franklin  Cheers Gary |
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Post by mickseymour on Jun 20, 2016 0:06:24 GMT -5
I am unlikely to use Atmos/DTS X (never say never) but I'd buy the upgrade in a heartbeat if it supported Dirac at 96/24 as a minimum. Whilst Dirac does make my room/music sound much better I can tell I'm missing something when playing LPs.
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Post by novisnick on Jun 20, 2016 0:10:59 GMT -5
I am unlikely to use Atmos/DTS X (never say never) but I'd buy the upgrade in a heartbeat if it supported Dirac at 96/24 as a minimum. Whilst Dirac does make my room/music sound much better I can tell I'm missing something when playing LPs.   |
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Post by pepar on Jun 20, 2016 7:30:44 GMT -5
I am unlikely to use Atmos/DTS X (never say never) but I'd buy the upgrade in a heartbeat if it supported Dirac at 96/24 as a minimum. Whilst Dirac does make my room/music sound much better I can tell I'm missing something when playing LPs. In order for you to know you are missing something, you must first have previously heard that something elsewhere ... on another system. I am very curious as to where/what that would have been. I'm sure most of us are curious. And you get bonus points for explaining your A/B process.  Jeff |
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Erwin.BE
Emo VIPs 
It's the room, stupid!
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Post by Erwin.BE on Jun 20, 2016 15:30:02 GMT -5
My wife would rather I throw out the XMC-1's all together .... That's not very cricket of that woman miss wizardofoz! Better start memorizing a list of her indulgences: shoes, handbags, nail treatment...  Then throw it back at her. I know man cannot win this kind of war, but if you are lucky she will divorce you. But make sure you own the house first. No use for a XMC-1 without a roof over it. Let alone two |
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Post by garbulky on Jun 20, 2016 16:41:37 GMT -5
I am unlikely to use Atmos/DTS X (never say never) but I'd buy the upgrade in a heartbeat if it supported Dirac at 96/24 as a minimum. Whilst Dirac does make my room/music sound much better I can tell I'm missing something when playing LPs. I propose that it's DIRAC's sound alteration that you don't like. Not that it's not 96/24. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jun 20, 2016 18:27:41 GMT -5
I am unlikely to use Atmos/DTS X (never say never) but I'd buy the upgrade in a heartbeat if it supported Dirac at 96/24 as a minimum. Whilst Dirac does make my room/music sound much better I can tell I'm missing something when playing LPs. Like Nic, I'm confused  When I'm listening to LP's (that's vinyl in my terminology) it's an analogue input signal so I find that running it through an ADC and then room correction (DIRAC or otherwise) then a DAC doesn't sound as good as leaving it as untouched analogue. The improvement from the room correction does not have as positive an effect as the 3 "digital processing" steps have negative effects. I've actually gone further and by using an XSP-1 (previously a USP-1) I have no processing at all between the vinyl and my ears, it's analogue all the way through. Nothing to do with whether DIRAC is good or bad, I simply prefer the sound without any processing/conversion at all. In regards to sample/bit rates as soon as Emotiva "upgrades" the XMC-1 DIRAC to 24/96 some people will be complaining that it should have been 24/192. If they moved to 24/192 then people would still complain that it should be 32/384. Hell, my BigEgo handles 32/384 why shouldn't DIRAC in an XMC-1? It's a never ending climb up the diminishing returns ladder. But when it comes to vinyl I really don't give a rats about bit/sample rates, it's analogue and its going to stay that way. Cheers Gary |
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Post by novisnick on Jun 20, 2016 18:33:17 GMT -5
I am unlikely to use Atmos/DTS X (never say never) but I'd buy the upgrade in a heartbeat if it supported Dirac at 96/24 as a minimum. Whilst Dirac does make my room/music sound much better I can tell I'm missing something when playing LPs. Like Nic, I'm confused When I'm listening to LP's (that's vinyl in my terminology) it's an analogue input signal so I find that running it through an ADC and then room correction (DIRAC or otherwise) then a DAC doesn't sound as good as leaving it as untouched analogue. The improvement from the room correction does not have as positive an effect as the 3 "digital processing" steps have negative effects. I've actually gone further and by using an XSP-1 (previously a USP-1) I have no processing at all between the vinyl and my ears, it's analogue all the way through. Nothing to do with whether DIRAC is good or bad, I simply prefer the sound without any processing at all. In regards to sample/bit rates as soon as Emotiva "upgrades" the XMC-1 DIRAC to 24/96 some people will be complaining that it should have been 24/192. If they moved to 24/192 then people would still complain that it should be 32/384. Hell, my BigEgo handles 32/384 why shouldn't DIRAC in an XMC-1? It's a never ending climb up the diminishing returns ladder. But when it comes to vinyl I really don't give a rats about bit/sample rates, it's analogue and its going to stay that way. Cheers Gary
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Post by mickseymour on Jun 21, 2016 1:17:54 GMT -5
I am unlikely to use Atmos/DTS X (never say never) but I'd buy the upgrade in a heartbeat if it supported Dirac at 96/24 as a minimum. Whilst Dirac does make my room/music sound much better I can tell I'm missing something when playing LPs. In order for you to know you are missing something, you must first have previously heard that something elsewhere ... on another system. I am very curious as to where/what that would have been. I'm sure most of us are curious. And you get bonus points for explaining your A/B process. Jeff Hmm. Cat amongst the pigeons in the great 48/24 v 96/24 v analogue debate eh? I have had most of my predominantly Linn equipment for 15 years in 4 different houses with rooms having different qualities. I've had the XMC-1 for 18 months in one house, replacing a Lexicon MC-12. The majority of my LPs are over 40 years old, mostly played on decent equipment so should not be damaged. I own a Squeezebox Touch and I've recorded a number of my favourite LPs at 96/24 to play through the Touch for occasional convenience. Prior to the XMC-1, LP playback was LP12/OL Illustrious/Ortofon Kontrapunct b into a Kairn Pro pre into an active XO and a tripple of LK140s into Active PMS Isobariks. The Touch was plugged into the MC-12 > Kairn Pro > the same speaker setup. Before this house, LPs had an air and grace about the sound, and silences in the music that appeared to stretch out. There was a similar and only slightly lesser experience with 96/24 recorded music from the Touch. Recordings of the same LPs made at 48/24 did not sound as open. I did initially try LPs through the Kairn Pro as a step-up > MC-12 when new and they sounded stifled so I went back to the analogue chain. In this typical modern Spanish house the room sounds bad. It is 8m a 5m with a 2.5m ceiling at one end, a 6m ceiling at the other, an open kitchen and 2 small open hallways, constructed of solid block walls, concrete ceilings and tiled floors. Music holds against the back wall at low volume and shouts at medium to high volumes, with no air and grace. Silences are lost. I'd found myself playing music as a sonic background rather than for enjoyment. Along came the XMC-1. Whilst waiting for my Dirac licence key I set the system up so that LP replay was Kairn Pro for step-up > XMC-1 into the same speaker setup using Reference Stereo. There appeared to be no difference between Reference Stereo and playing LPs directly through the Kairn Pro to the speakers, which I thought was great for an AVP. After some testing of Direct and Stereo modes, I preferred Reference Stereo and comparing that to the direct Kairn Pro route decided to leave LP replay going through the XMC-1 until I'd had the chance to try Dirac. I'd had no experience of room correction up to this point so was interested but sceptical. Dirac made a huge difference to what the room was doing. Music sounded so much more like it had in the past. I could listen at different volume levels without any strain and found I was sitting and listening to music for enjoyment again. It does feel like I'm missing something of the music; it feels a little (only a little) shut in but is still great fun to listen to. I don't know if Dirac at 96/24 or higher _would_ make a difference but I suspect it will. Oh, and my A/B method? An intimate knowledge of what my system and LPs have been capable of in multiple locations. If you were looking for graphs and measurements, you're out of luck. |
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Post by qdtjni on Jun 21, 2016 1:19:19 GMT -5
I'm with Mick here, at least when it comes to Dirac in higher res, it does indeed make sense. 192 kHZ would be even better. |
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Post by pepar on Jun 21, 2016 7:45:13 GMT -5
Agnostic amongst the religious? I would definitely 1000% agree on the incredible sound of the XMC-1, but my switchover from an Audyssey-Pro corrected Onkyo 5508 happened "within" my audio memory window after years of listening. But I was referring to 24/96 over 24/48 or, more specifically something missing when playing LP's. There is science that refutes it that there is a difference. Of course there is none to refute that you HEARD a differnce. But you are obviously passionate as well as experienced in this area, and have caveated the issue enough to cause me to slightly regret jousting at your windmill. Jeff |
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Post by qdtjni on Jun 21, 2016 7:51:24 GMT -5
Agnostic amongst the religious? I would definitely 1000% agree on the incredible sound of the XMC-1, but my switchover from an Audyssey-Pro corrected Onkyo 5508 happened "within" my audio memory window after years of listening. But I was referring to 24/96 over 24/48 or, more specifically something missing when playing LP's. There is science that refutes it that there is a difference. Of course there is none to refute that you HEARD a differnce. But you are obviously passionate as well as experienced in this area, and have caveated the issue enough to cause me to slightly regret jousting at your windmill. Jeff Having higher res for AD and DA is less about getting the high frequency ranges as getting more frequent samples and reducing effects from filters. This applies specifically to analogue sources where you want to use Dirac. Also, there's nothing to be gained from down sampling to 48 KHz if your source material is higher res, on the contrary |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 21, 2016 9:21:42 GMT -5
I am unlikely to use Atmos/DTS X (never say never) but I'd buy the upgrade in a heartbeat if it supported Dirac at 96/24 as a minimum. Whilst Dirac does make my room/music sound much better I can tell I'm missing something when playing LPs. In order for you to know you are missing something, you must first have previously heard that something elsewhere ... on another system. I am very curious as to where/what that would have been. I'm sure most of us are curious. And you get bonus points for explaining your A/B process. Jeff Another way of looking at it for Emotiva is that there may be a market for the "Atmos upgrade" outside of Atmos and DTS. |
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) and got at reasonable cost - albeit still not cheap.
