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Post by Gary Cook on May 8, 2016 18:13:56 GMT -5
with none of hte class A stuff. No class A required. Sorry what Class A stuff? All Class AB amps spend some time in Class A, how long (how many watts) is purely dependant on the biasing. From what I recall the XPA-1 Gen, with biasing set up for 10 watts of Class A, had no less heat sinks than the XPA-1 Gen2 with 60 watts of Class A. Cheers Gary |
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Post by Axis on May 8, 2016 18:16:54 GMT -5
You guys are speaking a foreign language. I have no idea what in the hell you are debating other than cramming 2 big huge amps into one steel container, but its fun to watch.  Yeah, that's pretty much the question. The answer is "yes". But the other question...is "why bother?". It is FAR more impressive to have two, very large, very heavy boxes. Even better, they need to be integrated amps with separate volume controls that START at 11.  Mark Mark, yes having two big Mono Blocks are impressive. You can put each one right next to your speakers. I get it. Nick would kick my butt or shoot me if I messed with his. There are some that would love to have a single unit in there rack or whatever that put out fully balance quad differential amplification to each of there speakers from there fully balance quad differential preamp. That's all I am saying.  Can that happen at Emotiva performance and value and not weigh a ton ? And you don't need 1000 watts per channel. Two XPA-1L's were the way to get there but they are gone and I am thinking Gen 3 is a step up in SQ. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 8, 2016 18:23:32 GMT -5
Mark, yes having two big Mono Blocks are impressive. You can put each one right next to your speakers. I get it. Nick would kick my butt or shoot me if I messed with his. There are some that would love to have a single unit in there rack or whatever that put out fully balance quad differential amplification to each of there speakers from there fully balance quad differential preamp. That's all I am saying. I can see why someone would want that, but consider the bragging rights! You can tell visitors that each one can pump out 14 gigawatts of power, and they'll just say, "sweet dude...how loud do they get?". (Of course, the answer is, " actually, they are very quiet, but the speakers...") Mark |
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Post by Axis on May 8, 2016 18:31:57 GMT -5
Mark, yes having two big Mono Blocks are impressive. You can put each one right next to your speakers. I get it. Nick would kick my butt or shoot me if I messed with his. There are some that would love to have a single unit in there rack or whatever that put out fully balance quad differential amplification to each of there speakers from there fully balance quad differential preamp. That's all I am saying. I can see why someone would want that, but consider the bragging rights! You can tell visitors that each one can pump out 14 gigawatts of power, and they'll just say, "sweet dude...how loud do they get?". (Of course, the answer is, " actually, they are very quiet, but the speakers...") Mark Mark an older gentleman named Mark knocked on my door yesterday that was steered to me by the Apt maintenance guy. He said he was an Audiophile and heard about my setup. As soon as he saw I have Emotiva gear he told me he went to a Emofest and was glad that he was reminded of that. I sat him down and put some Pat Metheny into my DC-1 and Airmotiv 5s's. As soon he was done listening to them he booked home to look into them and sign up on the lounge. Keep an eye out for everyone. |
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Post by Axis on May 8, 2016 18:40:00 GMT -5
Mark, yes having two big Mono Blocks are impressive. You can put each one right next to your speakers. I get it. Nick would kick my butt or shoot me if I messed with his. There are some that would love to have a single unit in there rack or whatever that put out fully balance quad differential amplification to each of there speakers from there fully balance quad differential preamp. That's all I am saying. I can see why someone would want that, but consider the bragging rights! You can tell visitors that each one can pump out 14 gigawatts of power, and they'll just say, "sweet dude...how loud do they get?". (Of course, the answer is, " actually, they are very quiet, but the speakers...") Mark Have we had any good reviews on Gen 3 ? I am telling you my USP-1 and UPA-2 still blows me away for noise floor. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 8, 2016 19:22:17 GMT -5
I've not seen a lot yet.
Maek
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Post by novisnick on May 8, 2016 19:52:22 GMT -5
novisnick you are on my short list for Vice President of the Dual Mono Society as soon I win the nomination. Until the XPA-1 goes the way of the Dodo bird, keep pouring that Blue cool aide. I am sorry that I said what I said but that's politics. Actually, I own two sets of Emotiva MONOBLOCKS!!!! XPA-1L 's and XPR-1 's that my friend makes DUEL Monoblocks !
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Post by AudioHTIT on May 8, 2016 20:02:15 GMT -5
Dual mono doesn't require a separate power supply, it's a feature. When a designer chooses to use a power supply for each channel (along with the amp channel circuitry) it is known as dual mono. And yes, reduced crosstalk would be an advantage of a dual mono design, but most audiophiles have been satisfied with the crosstalk performance of stereo amplifiers for decades. So I would say the crosstalk advantage of dual mono (and monoblock) designs, while real, is not of a consequence level to render them wholly superior. How much crosstalk a specific amp has will be something the designer will try to minimize (after all it is noise), but like any other spec there comes a point of diminishing returns or inaudibility. If for some reason you think crosstalk is the holy grail you should get monoblocks, I think with most well designed amps it's good enough, and other things are more important. Do you think taking the XPA Gen 3 platform with its switching power supply along with the modules required to have two quad differential channels is a good ideal ? With the A/AB architecture of the XPA-1 that requires a massive toroidal transformer power supply and huge banks of capacitors with big heat sinks would not be feasible . Like Garbulky said, you would loose the class A with the Gen 3 architecture but still be quad differential. This is a question. I have no ideal how the sound quality would compare to the XPA-1 mono block. I have doubt that what Lonnie put into the XPA-1L, XPA-1 or XPR-1 mono blocks will be able to be transferred to a single amplifier chassis with two channels. I am thinking that this new design with it's switching power and new design of modules that along go with it could be a good recipe to have two quad differential balanced channels in the same chassis. This would be something new. The space and weight savings of these amps with better performance than previous X-series could be a game changer and this is just a thought experiment. So, yes, I do think the XPA G3 architecture is a good idea. The flexibility and multiple configurations from 14 channels to a balanced monoblock (and everything in between) are awesome. Only those who have replaced say an XPA-2 with a two channel G3 can answer how the sound compares (and there are other threads for that). If you want to compare the XPA/XPR 1/1L then you need to compare a monoblock configured, balanced G3. There are too many variables and advantages to each design, consider: Monoblock (XPR-1, XPA-1/1L):Dedicated power supply (peak power, transients), (potentially) short speaker cable (damping factor, power), no crosstalk (noise/distortion), cool factor Mark ( klinemj ) alluded to (priceless) High Bias Class A (XPA-1 G2, XPA-1?, XPA-1L)Lower distortion, inner detail, winter heat source ... lemme call Nelson Class H (XPR-x, XPA G3):Efficiency Class A/AB (currently all Emotiva amps):Good price/performance, too many to list Balanced Design (XPR-1, XPA-1/1L, G3 w/Dual Wide Balanced Module):High immunity to noise, design challenges Dual Mono (nothing currently built or planned by Emotiva):Some of the Monoblock advantages if done right (except short speaker wire), Large chassis required to do it right I won't go on, that's just some thoughts. We don't know what the balanced modules will be or sound like, but we do know this: Lonnie and crew have designed many great amps, and it seems very likely the G3 with balanced or unbalanced modules will be another. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 8, 2016 20:50:29 GMT -5
I also agree that the Gen 3 architecture is going to be a good thing. A lot to like.
Mark
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Post by Kent on May 9, 2016 17:49:20 GMT -5
I'm eager to hear Gen 3 mono blocks. It's looking like my uncle is going to buy a pair down the road. It will be interesting to compare to my XPR-1's. I have a feeling they will sound very good.
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Post by garbulky on May 9, 2016 21:35:02 GMT -5
Well if you wanted dual mono balanced stuff then I would imagine using two switched mode power supplies would be "easier" on the space aspect. Not what I would want personally but there is an obvious space advantage.
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Post by Axis on May 9, 2016 21:55:40 GMT -5
Well if you wanted dual mono balanced stuff then I would imagine using two switched mode power supplies would be "easier" on the space aspect. Not what I would want personally but there is an obvious space advantage. Garbulky, I am in enemy territory spewing blasphemy about putting two big mono blocks in one box. My USP-1,UPA-2 & ERC-1 is huge to me and takes half the corner of the room. I never thought I would be getting rid of them as my main system but I am going Stealth 8 and DC-1 for my whole two way. If I would have gone Full Quad Differential I would have got two XPA-1L's. Two 70 lbs. boxes both the size of a small fridge is not my ideal of practical unless I need them to drive six foot tall and four foot wide speakers in a very huge room that was only for that system. I think you guys that get these huge amps of 500 or 1000 watts are crazy ! I get that you guys dig it but my big ass UPA-2 with 125 watts per channel can play clean louder than I can listen and my woofers boom just as good as I need. It would be nice if you could have two channels of Full Quad Differential Mono in a single medium size box that only weighs 50 lbs. total. With this new switching power supply and no need for large amounts of capacitors and heat sinks with it, this new Gen 3 XPA design may be just the ticket for all those that do not want or need a 140 lbs. of huge mono blocks or 1000 watts of power. |
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Post by novisnick on May 9, 2016 22:00:15 GMT -5
Well if you wanted dual mono balanced stuff then I would imagine using two switched mode power supplies would be "easier" on the space aspect. Not what I would want personally but there is an obvious space advantage. Garbulky, I am in enemy territory spewing blasphemy about putting two big mono blocks in one box. My USP-1,UPA-2 & ERC-1 is huge to me and takes half the corner of the room. I never thought I would be getting rid of them as my main system but I am going Stealth 8 and DC-1 for my whole two way. If I would have gone Full Quad Differential I would have got two XPA-1L's. Two 70 lbs. boxes both the size of a small fridge is not my ideal of practical unless I need them to drive six foot tall and four foot wide speakers in a very huge room that was only for that system. I think you guys that get these huge amps of 500 or 1000 watts are crazy ! I get that you guys dig it but my big ass UPA-2 with 125 watts per channel can play clean louder than I can listen and my woofers boom just as good as I need. It would be nice if you could have two channels of Full Quad Differential Mono in a single medium size box that only weighs 50 lbs. total. With this new switching power supply and no need for large amounts of capacitors and heat sinks with it, this new Gen 3 XPA design may be just the ticket for all those that do not want or need a 140 lbs. of huge mono blocks or 1000 watts of power. Hey! My XPR-1 is only 50 lbs,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, untill you lift the other end!!,,,,,,he,,,,,,he,,,,,,he,,,,,,,,
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Post by Gary Cook on May 9, 2016 22:06:55 GMT -5
Well if you wanted dual mono balanced stuff then I would imagine using two switched mode power supplies would be "easier" on the space aspect. Not what I would want personally but there is an obvious space advantage. Garbulky, I am in enemy territory spewing blasphemy about putting two big mono blocks in one box. My USP-1,UPA-2 & ERC-1 is huge to me and takes half the corner of the room. I never thought I would be getting rid of them as my main system but I am going Stealth 8 and DC-1 for my whole two way. If I would have gone Full Quad Differential I would have got two XPA-1L's. Two 70 lbs. boxes both the size of a small fridge is not my ideal of practical unless I need them to drive six foot tall and four foot wide speakers in a very huge room that was only for that system. I think you guys that get these huge amps of 500 or 1000 watts are crazy ! I get that you guys dig it but my big ass UPA-2 with 125 watts per channel can play clean louder than I can listen and my woofers boom just as good as I need. It would be nice if you could have two channels of Full Quad Differential Mono in a single medium size box that only weighs 50 lbs. total. With this new switching power supply and no need for large amounts of capacitors and heat sinks with it, this new Gen 3 XPA design may be just the ticket for all those that do not want or need a 140 lbs. of huge mono blocks or 1000 watts of power. In good humour........so you are looking at a pair of Stealth 8's, that's 800 watts of power together with 83 lbs of weight.  As someone with a pair of XPA-1L's I can assure you that they are nowhere near the size of my bar fridge, let alone the kitchen fridge.  Cheers Gary |
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Post by Axis on May 9, 2016 22:16:52 GMT -5
Garbulky, I am in enemy territory spewing blasphemy about putting two big mono blocks in one box. My USP-1,UPA-2 & ERC-1 is huge to me and takes half the corner of the room. I never thought I would be getting rid of them as my main system but I am going Stealth 8 and DC-1 for my whole two way. If I would have gone Full Quad Differential I would have got two XPA-1L's. Two 70 lbs. boxes both the size of a small fridge is not my ideal of practical unless I need them to drive six foot tall and four foot wide speakers in a very huge room that was only for that system. I think you guys that get these huge amps of 500 or 1000 watts are crazy ! I get that you guys dig it but my big ass UPA-2 with 125 watts per channel can play clean louder than I can listen and my woofers boom just as good as I need. It would be nice if you could have two channels of Full Quad Differential Mono in a single medium size box that only weighs 50 lbs. total. With this new switching power supply and no need for large amounts of capacitors and heat sinks with it, this new Gen 3 XPA design may be just the ticket for all those that do not want or need a 140 lbs. of huge mono blocks or 1000 watts of power. In good humour........so you are looking at a pair of Stealth 8's, that's 800 watts of power together with 83 lbs of weight. As someone with a pair of XPA-1L's I can assure you that they are nowhere near the size of my bar fridge, let alone the kitchen fridge. Cheers Gary I was talking about the XPA-1 or XPR-1 that are 70 plus lbs. and half the size of a small fridge. The two Stealth 8's and there stands will go in the same place where my two sony tower speakers are and the space where my USP-1,UPA-2 & ERC-1 are now will be replaced with my new big mixing board, mrophones, guitars and effects pedals. I started a thread on stands for the Stealth 8's and will share pics of the new arrangement when it all comes together. Cheers Mike |
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Post by novisnick on May 9, 2016 22:19:03 GMT -5
Garbulky, I am in enemy territory spewing blasphemy about putting two big mono blocks in one box. My USP-1,UPA-2 & ERC-1 is huge to me and takes half the corner of the room. I never thought I would be getting rid of them as my main system but I am going Stealth 8 and DC-1 for my whole two way. If I would have gone Full Quad Differential I would have got two XPA-1L's. Two 70 lbs. boxes both the size of a small fridge is not my ideal of practical unless I need them to drive six foot tall and four foot wide speakers in a very huge room that was only for that system. I think you guys that get these huge amps of 500 or 1000 watts are crazy ! I get that you guys dig it but my big ass UPA-2 with 125 watts per channel can play clean louder than I can listen and my woofers boom just as good as I need. It would be nice if you could have two channels of Full Quad Differential Mono in a single medium size box that only weighs 50 lbs. total. With this new switching power supply and no need for large amounts of capacitors and heat sinks with it, this new Gen 3 XPA design may be just the ticket for all those that do not want or need a 140 lbs. of huge mono blocks or 1000 watts of power. In good humour........so you are looking at a pair of Stealth 8's, that's 800 watts of power together with 83 lbs of weight. As someone with a pair of XPA-1L's I can assure you that they are nowhere near the size of my bar fridge, let alone the kitchen fridge. Cheers Gary If y'all a talking about the XPA-1Ls, they are standard sized 1 or 2 U in hight and 17" x 19", not large at all and are relatively light for such a powerful Quad Diff. Mono. They are exceptional amps and my babbys will be home on Thursday!! They've been on loan to a dear friend for a few months. Can't wait to hear them with the McIntosh pre amp. |
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Post by Axis on May 9, 2016 22:29:51 GMT -5
In good humour........so you are looking at a pair of Stealth 8's, that's 800 watts of power together with 83 lbs of weight. As someone with a pair of XPA-1L's I can assure you that they are nowhere near the size of my bar fridge, let alone the kitchen fridge. Cheers Gary If y'all a talking about the XPA-1Ls, they are standard sized 1 or 2 U in hight and 17" x 19", not large at all and are relatively light for such a powerful Quad Diff. Mono. They are exceptional amps and my babbys will be home on Thursday!! They've been on loan to a dear friend for a few months. Can't wait to hear them with the McIntosh pre amp. I thought about getting an XSP-1 and two XPA-1L's because that is as small as it gets for pure analog balanced Quad Differential. That set up is bigger than I want or need. I am hoping that someone will bring this balanced Quad Differential architecture down to a smaller size and I don't see why you need to have separate mono blocks to have balanced Quad Differential amplification. One of the main questions I have for this thread is can you do it ? Can you put two channels of balanced Quad Differential amplification in one box ? I am googling it but I have not found the answer yet. I put the question here as a means to acquire the answer from others that have already found the answer. Anyone here know ? |
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Post by garbulky on May 9, 2016 22:32:55 GMT -5
Well if you wanted dual mono balanced stuff then I would imagine using two switched mode power supplies would be "easier" on the space aspect. Not what I would want personally but there is an obvious space advantage. Garbulky, I am in enemy territory spewing blasphemy about putting two big mono blocks in one box. My USP-1,UPA-2 & ERC-1 is huge to me and takes half the corner of the room. I never thought I would be getting rid of them as my main system but I am going Stealth 8 and DC-1 for my whole two way. If I would have gone Full Quad Differential I would have got two XPA-1L's. Two 70 lbs. boxes both the size of a small fridge is not my ideal of practical unless I need them to drive six foot tall and four foot wide speakers in a very huge room that was only for that system. I think you guys that get these huge amps of 500 or 1000 watts are crazy ! I get that you guys dig it but my big ass UPA-2 with 125 watts per channel can play clean louder than I can listen and my woofers boom just as good as I need. It would be nice if you could have two channels of Full Quad Differential Mono in a single medium size box that only weighs 50 lbs. total. With this new switching power supply and no need for large amounts of capacitors and heat sinks with it, this new Gen 3 XPA design may be just the ticket for all those that do not want or need a 140 lbs. of huge mono blocks or 1000 watts of power. No probs. This may come as a surprise but despite me loving the space and weight, I actually see the problem of these amps being huge. Here's an excerpt from my review. P.S.: I think you will be incredibly happy with the DC-1 stealth 8s. " When these appeared at my work place, they were gigantic.. The UPS guy struggled with it on the dolly in to my workplace dumped them on the ground and exclaimed "what are those?!" Every co-worker that day commented on the humongous boxes. My boss took a look at the bopxes side by side taking up space and she said "What the hell is that freaking thing?" The outer boxes boxes were only very slightly dented. There was no holes or anything like that. More importantly they also came with HANDLES. THANK GOD. Because these things were ridiculously heavy. I remember the XPA-2 being heavy. But now basically there were two. There was NO way for a single person my size to lift this. Needless to say I loved it. I really do like weight in my amps. Getting them home I realized I forgot where I had put the dolly. So my wife helped me with them. Which was a struggle without the dolly. Laid down boxed the two side by side took up about an 1/8th of my living room. After unboxing them I tried to move them on to the shelf. Now that the boxes were out of the way and I had to lift the amps out I found they had taken on the density of a black hole. Good golly gosh I grunted several times as I manhandled these suckers on to my shelf. Several thoughts of T.M.A.-1 or monoliths and pictures of 2001 a space oddysey flashed in to my head. I imagined I was the astronaughts clutching their helmets as the monoloith shrieked its message out to outerspace but in this case it was my gargantuan amp.  But is it balanced though? WAF (Sorry Andrew) Finally sitting in shelves...sort of..... I looked proudly at those gorgeous black boxes. And then glanced happily to my wife. "Well Now what do ya think about that? ? Don't they look great?" It was at this point that I realized in my enthusiasm I hadn't really paid attention to her reactions so far. There were the huge opened boxes on the floor and foam pieces all over the floor. To these gigantic black boxes. One amp was too large for the shelf so it was sticking halfway out of it wit the front sitting on the carpet. It had CDs used for risers to level it. Uh oh. "NO! IT'S TERRIBLE," She exclaimed with a huge frown, " THE WIFE ACCEPTANCE FACTOR IS A TWO!" (She really did yell say this.) Well then. Ahem. I beg your pardon.  Haters going to hate…..  So to improve things (and thanks to novisnick ) I replaced the CD risers (now cracking in half) with LITERAL BRICKS. Needless to say I didn't ask her what she thought of that. ![]()  |
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Post by novisnick on May 9, 2016 22:44:40 GMT -5
Axis, a partial answer for you. No, I've never heard of such a setup, maybe but I cant name them. But, i think the more you stuff into a single box the more chance of sonic corruption. Thats as simple as I can see it. Someone with more talent for words could have strung this out for page after page, but I think this just says it! |
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Post by novisnick on May 9, 2016 22:47:20 GMT -5
If y'all a talking about the XPA-1Ls, they are standard sized 1 or 2 U in hight and 17" x 19", not large at all and are relatively light for such a powerful Quad Diff. Mono. They are exceptional amps and my babbys will be home on Thursday!! They've been on loan to a dear friend for a few months. Can't wait to hear them with the McIntosh pre amp. I thought about getting an XSP-1 and two XPA-1L's because that is as small as it gets for pure analog balanced Quad Differential. That set up is bigger than I want or need. I am hoping that someone will bring this balanced Quad Differential architecture down to a smaller size and I don't see why you need to have separate mono blocks to have balanced Quad Differential amplification. One of the main questions I have for this thread is can you do it ? Can you put two channels of balanced Quad Differential amplification in one box ? I am googling it but I have not found the answer yet. I put the question here as a means to acquire the answer from others that have already found the answer. Anyone here know ? Ive owned the setup you were looking at, Multiple sources > XSP-1 > DC-1 > XPA-1Ls > two different sets of speakers, OUTSTANDING!!!! |
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