|
|
Post by Axis on May 9, 2016 23:10:28 GMT -5
I thought about getting an XSP-1 and two XPA-1L's because that is as small as it gets for pure analog balanced Quad Differential. That set up is bigger than I want or need. I am hoping that someone will bring this balanced Quad Differential architecture down to a smaller size and I don't see why you need to have separate mono blocks to have balanced Quad Differential amplification. One of the main questions I have for this thread is can you do it ? Can you put two channels of balanced Quad Differential amplification in one box ? I am googling it but I have not found the answer yet. I put the question here as a means to acquire the answer from others that have already found the answer. Anyone here know ?  Ive owned the setup you were looking at, Multiple sources > XSP-1 > DC-1 > XPA-1Ls > two different sets of speakers, OUTSTANDING!!!! The XSP-1 is not huge but it is not small either. I have a feeling that they can make a good fully balanced preamp a lot smaller. Look what they did with the Emersa gear. It is not balanced but I have a feeling they are going to sell more than most think. I think about myself looking year after year for a compact low profile AVR that had decent power output. Both the Emersa Prepro and amp will not be as tall as any low profile AVR out there and will have 125 watts per channel. Thousands of Men and there Wifes are going to be very happy when he can say "look dear, you can hardly see it on the bottom tv stand shelf and no big volume controls knobs or bright lights. " There is only about 20 guys here that the Emersa gear is pissing off and they will get over it . |
|
|
|
Post by novisnick on May 9, 2016 23:15:48 GMT -5
I look forward to hearing the new gear! I will give it a listen!!!,,,,,,,and most likely find a place for one of them! 8)
Edit,
Emersa or BasX that is
|
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on May 9, 2016 23:19:42 GMT -5
I thought about getting an XSP-1 and two XPA-1L's because that is as small as it gets for pure analog balanced Quad Differential. That set up is bigger than I want or need. I am hoping that someone will bring this balanced Quad Differential architecture down to a smaller size and I don't see why you need to have separate mono blocks to have balanced Quad Differential amplification. One of the main questions I have for this thread is can you do it ? Can you put two channels of balanced Quad Differential amplification in one box ? I am googling it but I have not found the answer yet. I put the question here as a means to acquire the answer from others that have already found the answer. Anyone here know ? I guess you either don't want to believe me, or I don't understand your question. As I said before there are many fully balanced stereo amplifiers (what Emotiva calls quad differential). What are you Googling that you're not finding them? Since Nick mentioned McIntosh, here's one of theirs: www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=amplifiers&ProductId=MC452 |
|
|
|
Post by Axis on May 9, 2016 23:24:39 GMT -5
I thought about getting an XSP-1 and two XPA-1L's because that is as small as it gets for pure analog balanced Quad Differential. That set up is bigger than I want or need. I am hoping that someone will bring this balanced Quad Differential architecture down to a smaller size and I don't see why you need to have separate mono blocks to have balanced Quad Differential amplification. One of the main questions I have for this thread is can you do it ? Can you put two channels of balanced Quad Differential amplification in one box ? I am googling it but I have not found the answer yet. I put the question here as a means to acquire the answer from others that have already found the answer. Anyone here know ? I guess you either don't want to believe me, or I don't understand your question. As I said before there are many fully balanced stereo amplifiers (what Emotiva calls quad differential). What are you Googling that you're not finding them? Since Nick mentioned McIntosh, here's one of theirs: www.mcintoshlabs.com/us/Products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=amplifiers&ProductId=MC452McIntosh Quad Balanced design 450 watts per channel stereo amplifier. It weighs 110 lbs. and cost as much as a new car. Ok it can be done. Can you do it in the Gen 3 XPA Chassis @ 50 lbs. and $ 1000 to $1500 ? |
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on May 9, 2016 23:34:13 GMT -5
It weighs 110 lbs. and cost as much as a new car. Ok it can be done. Can you do it in the Gen 3 XPA Chassis @ 50 lbs. and $ 1000 to $1500 ? I think even more interestingly can they do one in an Emersa chassis with ICE amplification? Like an EMersa monoblock or stereoblock. A competitor to say Red Dragon monoblocks? |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on May 9, 2016 23:41:42 GMT -5
It weighs 110 lbs. and cost as much as a new car. Ok it can be done. Can you do it in the Gen 3 XPA Chassis @ 50 lbs. and $ 1000 to $1500 ? There are many other examples that are less expensive, ATI comes to mind. You asked if it could be done, but what you want to know is can Emo do it for your budget?. We don't know the cost yet of the double wide modules, but if we can get two unbalanced channels for $899 then $1500 seems possible. You could even speculate that 4 unbalanced modules would cost about the same as two balanced ones, so around $1299, but things aren't always that simple. |
|
|
|
Post by Axis on May 9, 2016 23:56:47 GMT -5
It weighs 110 lbs. and cost as much as a new car. Ok it can be done. Can you do it in the Gen 3 XPA Chassis @ 50 lbs. and $ 1000 to $1500 ? I think even more interestingly can they do one in an Emersa chassis with ICE amplification? Like an EMersa monoblock or stereoblock. A competitor to say Red Dragon monoblocks? Baby steps. Are these Red Dragon monoblocks fully balance Quad Differential ? The new XPA Gen 3 chassis and the new small power supply with the ability for single and doublewide modules make it very versatile. I can think of several ways of configuring and purposing of this new design that has not been brought up by Emotiva or others. I have no doubt Dan, Lonnie and crew did not come up with this new design just so it would be easy to build ect.... Yup the price went up but you can have your own custom build with different combinations of modules. 14 channels in one chassis coming just in time for the new surround codecs. |
|
|
|
Post by Axis on May 10, 2016 1:46:23 GMT -5
It weighs 110 lbs. and cost as much as a new car. Ok it can be done. Can you do it in the Gen 3 XPA Chassis @ 50 lbs. and $ 1000 to $1500 ? I think even more interestingly can they do one in an Emersa chassis with ICE amplification? Like an EMersa monoblock or stereoblock. A competitor to say Red Dragon monoblocks? Garbulky I am not sure what this really means but I figure the new upcoming ICE mono blocks that are to go along with the Pro DC-1 will be equal to the performance of the DC-1. You have a DC-1 and I can see you getting the ICE mono blocks to go with it. I will, even though I have the Airmotiv powered speakers. I plane on getting all the Pro Stealth electronics. The Pro Stealth gear rock's for it's size. "The Stealth DC-1 is fully differential, and uses dual independent Analog Devices AD1955 precision multi-bit delta-sigma DACs, each operated in their highest-quality internal differential monaural mode, for exceptionally low noise and distortion." |
|
|
|
Post by leonski on May 10, 2016 2:22:12 GMT -5
Glad someone finally drug ICE amps into the chat.
The ASP modules are fully balanced from input to output. This quad differential or whatever is marketing.
My ICE amp integrated was 250x2 @8ohms. Pretty much doubled up into 4ohms.
EACH amp had an onboard SMPS and one of the 4 or 5 inputs was fully balanced. That input sounded fine with my balanced DAC output and Mogami cable.
I could be wrong here, but i don't think that a balanced stereo amp can be bridged? I think that would take a common ground which I KNOW my ICE amps didn't have.
|
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on May 10, 2016 7:16:51 GMT -5
I think even more interestingly can they do one in an Emersa chassis with ICE amplification? Like an EMersa monoblock or stereoblock. A competitor to say Red Dragon monoblocks? Garbulky I am not sure what this really means but I figure the new upcoming ICE mono blocks that are to go along with the Pro DC-1 will be equal to the performance of the DC-1. You have a DC-1 and I can see you getting the ICE mono blocks to go with it. I will, even though I have the Airmotiv powered speakers. I plane on getting all the Pro Stealth electronics. The Pro Stealth gear rock's for it's size. "The Stealth DC-1 is fully differential, and uses dual independent Analog Devices AD1955 precision multi-bit delta-sigma DACs, each operated in their highest-quality internal differential monaural mode, for exceptionally low noise and distortion." I actually am considering that for something down the road. If I ever get my SChiit Ygddrassil and Audio Gd He-1/master one preamp then the DC-1 will be without a use. Then I hope to move it in to a bedroom system. And then eventually purchase the DC-1 monoblocks. Their compact size makes it a no brainer for this application. I don't know if the red dragon monoblocks are fully differential. To do so oyu would need two modoles. But for that I wasn't actually talking about hte ice monoblocks in the DC-1 chassis. I don't think there is enough space. I was thinking about the larger EMERSA amps. I think there might be enough space in there. |
|
|
|
Post by monkumonku on May 10, 2016 9:43:40 GMT -5
Can they put two XPA-1 's in one Chassis ? Hey if Lexicon can put an Oppo BDP83 in a box and sell it for 7x the original price, I would think you could put two XPA-1's in a box as well. But then who the heck is going to want to lift it? Your UPS or FedEx guy is going to be swearing at you and will probably heave it through your door as a warning against future heavy purchases like that. Dual balanced octodifferential polytagonal integrated monoblockial trifordal 98 lbs or 9.8 lbs or whatever - if you operate them within their intended parameters are you really going to hear a difference? |
|
|
|
Post by leonski on May 10, 2016 13:29:26 GMT -5
You guys must realize that EMO is constrained by the MODULES they purchase.
From the B&O ICE lineup:
The ASC series ALL have onboard SMPS. I believe these modules are also fully Balanced from input to speaker.
The AC series can be powered FROM an ASC module or another PS of ANY design which meets the voltage and current requirements. The non-power included moduels are TINY, like 5"+ by 2"+ which will EASILY fit even into a powered speaker.
Making a 'dual mono' amp from ASC modules is EASY. Split the incoming AC. Add input connectors and if you WANT, make provision for XLR /balanced inputs as well as single ended. Swithcing there might be nice. Add speaker outs to your spec.
The amp wouldn't have to weigh much more than the XSP-1 preamp.
And yes, if you own a FORKLIFT, you could get your dual mono XPA-1/2 into the house. Get some friends over to move it into the rack. Have some BenGay ready.
|
|
KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,261
|
Post by KeithL on May 10, 2016 14:15:26 GMT -5
That's a matter of how you look at it. A fully balanced fully differential amp is ALREADY bridged... so you can't "bridge it again". (You could make a bridged amp that wasn't fully balanced - but a fully balanced amp is always bridged.) Glad someone finally drug ICE amps into the chat. The ASP modules are fully balanced from input to output. This quad differential or whatever is marketing. My ICE amp integrated was 250x2 @8ohms. Pretty much doubled up into 4ohms. EACH amp had an onboard SMPS and one of the 4 or 5 inputs was fully balanced. That input sounded fine with my balanced DAC output and Mogami cable. I could be wrong here, but i don't think that a balanced stereo amp can be bridged? I think that would take a common ground which I KNOW my ICE amps didn't have. |
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,261
|
Post by KeithL on May 10, 2016 14:29:55 GMT -5
The short answer is yes...... First off, you can put ANYTHING in one box if you try hard enough  However, in this case, it's no problem at all.... both amplifiers can even run off the same power supply rails. (Note that there won't be any common grounds on the speaker outputs.) If y'all a talking about the XPA-1Ls, they are standard sized 1 or 2 U in hight and 17" x 19", not large at all and are relatively light for such a powerful Quad Diff. Mono. They are exceptional amps and my babbys will be home on Thursday!! They've been on loan to a dear friend for a few months. Can't wait to hear them with the McIntosh pre amp. I thought about getting an XSP-1 and two XPA-1L's because that is as small as it gets for pure analog balanced Quad Differential. That set up is bigger than I want or need. I am hoping that someone will bring this balanced Quad Differential architecture down to a smaller size and I don't see why you need to have separate mono blocks to have balanced Quad Differential amplification. One of the main questions I have for this thread is can you do it ? Can you put two channels of balanced Quad Differential amplification in one box ? I am googling it but I have not found the answer yet. I put the question here as a means to acquire the answer from others that have already found the answer. Anyone here know ? |
|
|
|
Post by Axis on May 10, 2016 14:31:57 GMT -5
Can they put two XPA-1 's in one Chassis ? Hey if Lexicon can put an Oppo BDP83 in a box and sell it for 7x the original price, I would think you could put two XPA-1's in a box as well. But then who the heck is going to want to lift it? Your UPS or FedEx guy is going to be swearing at you and will probably heave it through your door as a warning against future heavy purchases like that. Dual balanced octodifferential polytagonal integrated monoblockial trifordal 98 lbs or 9.8 lbs or whatever - if you operate them within their intended parameters are you really going to hear a difference? Sorry everyone. I did not mean that literally. The only current available balanced differential amplifier is the XPA-1 and the only way you can get balanced differential amplification for your balanced differential pre-amplification (XSP-1) is to buy two 70 lbs. mono blocks. There has to be a more practical means. The new Gen 3 design does not need all that huge stuff inside it to perform. Read about it here: emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/xpa-gen3Look at all the room in there ! I am talking two mono channels of balanced differential in the same chassis and not a 1000 watts per channel.  |
|
|
|
Post by Axis on May 10, 2016 14:44:37 GMT -5
And before anyone suggest a $100,000 amp I want to say that after reading for the last 10 to 15 years of people talk about amplifiers I am convinced that you do not need to spend more than the cost of two XPA-1's to have all and the best amplification you need for a pair of speakers.
Gen 3 may even be better than the current Gen 2 XPA-1's as Mono Blocks.
|
|
|
|
Post by novisnick on May 10, 2016 16:20:24 GMT -5
Hey if Lexicon can put an Oppo BDP83 in a box and sell it for 7x the original price, I would think you could put two XPA-1's in a box as well. But then who the heck is going to want to lift it? Your UPS or FedEx guy is going to be swearing at you and will probably heave it through your door as a warning against future heavy purchases like that. Dual balanced octodifferential polytagonal integrated monoblockial trifordal 98 lbs or 9.8 lbs or whatever - if you operate them within their intended parameters are you really going to hear a difference? Sorry everyone. I did not mean that literally. The only current available balanced differential amplifier is the XPA-1 and the only way you can get balanced differential amplification for your balanced differential pre-amplification (XSP-1) is to buy two 70 lbs. mono blocks. There has to be a more practical means. The new Gen 3 design does not need all that huge stuff inside it to perform. Read about it here: emotiva.com/products/amplifiers/xpa-gen3Look at all the room in there ! I am talking two mono channels of balanced differential in the same chassis and not a 1000 watts per channel. No! No! No! Its 1750 wpc @ 4 ohms!! Get it right !,,,,,,,,,would ya!!!!,,,,,,,,,,,geeezzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!  |
|
|
|
Post by Axis on May 10, 2016 19:59:56 GMT -5
The short answer is yes...... First off, you can put ANYTHING in one box if you try hard enough However, in this case, it's no problem at all.... both amplifiers can even run off the same power supply rails. (Note that there won't be any common grounds on the speaker outputs.) I thought about getting an XSP-1 and two XPA-1L's because that is as small as it gets for pure analog balanced Quad Differential. That set up is bigger than I want or need. I am hoping that someone will bring this balanced Quad Differential architecture down to a smaller size and I don't see why you need to have separate mono blocks to have balanced Quad Differential amplification. One of the main questions I have for this thread is can you do it ? Can you put two channels of balanced Quad Differential amplification in one box ? I am googling it but I have not found the answer yet. I put the question here as a means to acquire the answer from others that have already found the answer. Anyone here know ? This is Good Share same power supply but speaker outputs have independent grounds. This is two mono channels ? This is not the same as a XPA-2 stereo ? |
|
|
|
Post by leonski on May 10, 2016 22:15:57 GMT -5
It would appear you can approach the dual PS a couple ways, too. A SINGLE transformer can have multiple OUTPUTS. A single pair of wires to the circuitry for each amp. This yields a ground and a 'hot'. For a Balanced amp? Each transformer ouput can have 3 wires. The 3rd wire is a center tap and will be the PS GROUND. powersupply33.com/unregulated-power-supply-for-high-end-audio-amplifier-with-two-polarity.htmlThe link is to a very simple circuit which illustrates the principle. In the example, you end up with a PLUS rail and a MINUS rail. Also, the schematic shows 2 secondary winding in SERIES, each of 16vac out. This is the circuit equal of a Center Tap Secondary. NOTE the 30,000mfd capacitance on EACH rail. This setup would yield an amp with NO common ground between speaker outputs. I think you could run a stereo amp from the circuit linked. Look for the 'chassis ground' marking. |
|
|
|
Post by Axis on May 10, 2016 22:37:13 GMT -5
It would appear you can approach the dual PS a couple ways, too. A SINGLE transformer can have multiple OUTPUTS. A single pair of wires to the circuitry for each amp. This yields a ground and a 'hot'. For a Balanced amp? Each transformer ouput can have 3 wires. The 3rd wire is a center tap and will be the PS GROUND. powersupply33.com/unregulated-power-supply-for-high-end-audio-amplifier-with-two-polarity.htmlThe link is to a very simple circuit which illustrates the principle. In the example, you end up with a PLUS rail and a MINUS rail. Also, the schematic shows 2 secondary winding in SERIES, each of 16vac out. This is the circuit equal of a Center Tap Secondary. NOTE the 30,000mfd capacitance on EACH rail. This setup would yield an amp with NO common ground between speaker outputs. I think you could run a stereo amp from the circuit linked. Look for the 'chassis ground' marking. Maybe I heard Lonnie hint to a "Doublewide Module" that would be Balanced Differential Mono in one of the Podcast. Something just got in my head that with this new Gen 3 platform that using module amps you could have the same Balanced Differential input to output that you have in the XPA-1L's or XPA-1 mono blocks in one Gen 3 chassis. Would not have the same huge output as a single mono block XPA-1 but at the same time would not weigh a ton and you would not need two big boxes. Would it cut into XPA-1 sales ? I doubt it. Mono blocks have a mystic and following that many will always desire. novisnick I am saying this for you my friend.  It would not be 1750 wpc @ 4 ohms. |
|
It would not be 1750 wpc @ 4 ohms. 