New Airmotiv Speaker Impressions

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2016 22:12:57 GMT -5 teaman said:

Aug 19, 2016 21:16:46 GMT -5 rbk123 said:

Cool, just wanted to make sure which speakers you were referring to. IMO, it's an apples/oranges comparison. The E1's are meant to be used as rear surrounds and so hung on a wall but shallow so as not to be obtrusive. They probably are designed to be more diffuse as well for surround use. All of this is just my understanding from the brief mentioning of them in the CES videos, though.

If it were apples to apples, I'd rather power them with my own (higher end) amp and have longer speaker cable runs, then the built in amps with longer interconnect runs. I'm not big on powered speakers though, so this is more like me liking red velvet cake and you preferring carrot cake. You wouldn't be wrong for wanting the powered ones.

I totally understand. I just think for $70 difference and the fact that you get two amps included I cannot imagine the better value being with the passives. I would guess by seeing this difference Emotiva could have sold the passive E1 for considerably less than they are.....meaning if you are thinking about buying the passives they will probably be going on sale.

I don't like powered speakers for any channel in a 5.1 or 7.1 system, especially at the side or rear walls.  Most folks already have a 5 channel amp with plenty of power to drive the surrounds which usually take less power than the LCR.  The powered speakers (which ideally should be up high on the wall) require a power outlet for the thick power cord and  a very long RCA cable, pain in the rear end!  The B1 or E1 in this case is a much better idea IMO with a relatively small and easy to run speaker wire.  For me it is a no-brainer (I know because I have no brain!).   

PS:  The new passive speakers are all on sale, 10% off.  The B1 and E1 are both passive speakers.

[Axis]

lukeh are your Airmotiv B1's with there rear port right up against the wall ? Like @tllfkacn points out, for just a pair of rear surrounds they need to be elevated a foot or two above your ears and behind you. The Airmotiv E1 with there front port and wall mounting would be a better speaker for you. The Airmotiv B1 with there rear port would work best as rear sides for a seven system. You would need to move the couch away from the wall for that. First comes rear surrounds then after that rear sides. The Airmotiv B1's should have space behind them for the port.

@tllfkacn knows what he is talking about folks. Over and over again he comes to the table with hard thought out knowledge. There is no trick to it. It is proven methods for proper surround speaker setup. You can read the same thing that Chuckienut is saying in ever manual for out there for surround speakers.

[khurram]

Aug 19, 2016 23:38:07 GMT -5 @tllfkacn said:

Aug 19, 2016 22:12:57 GMT -5 teaman said:

I totally understand. I just think for $70 difference and the fact that you get two amps included I cannot imagine the better value being with the passives. I would guess by seeing this difference Emotiva could have sold the passive E1 for considerably less than they are.....meaning if you are thinking about buying the passives they will probably be going on sale.

I don't like powered speakers for any channel in a 5.1 or 7.1 system, especially at the side or rear walls.  Most folks already have a 5 channel amp with plenty of power to drive the surrounds which usually take less power than the LCR.  The powered speakers (which ideally should be up high on the wall) require a power outlet for the thick power cord and  a very long RCA cable, pain in the rear end!  The B1 or E1 in this case is a much better idea IMO with a relatively small and easy to run speaker wire.  For me it is a no-brainer (I know because I have no brain!).   

PS:  The new passive speakers are all on sale, 10% off.  The B1 and E1 are both passive speakers.

Well that sucks. Shouldn't us early adopters be extended the 10% as a refund?

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2016 23:48:05 GMT -5 khurram said:

Aug 19, 2016 23:38:07 GMT -5 @tllfkacn said:

I don't like powered speakers for any channel in a 5.1 or 7.1 system, especially at the side or rear walls.  Most folks already have a 5 channel amp with plenty of power to drive the surrounds which usually take less power than the LCR.  The powered speakers (which ideally should be up high on the wall) require a power outlet for the thick power cord and  a very long RCA cable, pain in the rear end!  The B1 or E1 in this case is a much better idea IMO with a relatively small and easy to run speaker wire.  For me it is a no-brainer (I know because I have no brain!).   

PS:  The new passive speakers are all on sale, 10% off.  The B1 and E1 are both passive speakers.

Well that sucks. Shouldn't us early adopters be extended the 10% as a refund?

I would call Emotiva on the phone ASAP!  I believe they might have had in the past a 14-30 day or so price match or something like that.

[khurram]

Aug 20, 2016 0:18:03 GMT -5 @tllfkacn said:

Aug 19, 2016 23:48:05 GMT -5 khurram said:

Well that sucks. Shouldn't us early adopters be extended the 10% as a refund?

I would call Emotiva on the phone ASAP!  I believe they might have had in the past a 14-30 day or so price match or something like that.

I'm gonna call them on Monday.

[Deleted]

Aug 19, 2016 23:42:44 GMT -5 Axis said:

lukeh are your Airmotiv B1's with there rear port right up against the wall ? Like @tllfkacn points out, for just a pair of rear surrounds they need to be elevated a foot or two above your ears and behind you. The Airmotiv E1 with there front port and wall mounting would be a better speaker for you. The Airmotiv B1 with there rear port would work best as rear sides for a seven system. You would need to move the couch away from the wall for that. First comes rear surrounds then after that rear sides. The Airmotiv B1's should have space behind them for the port.

@tllfkacn knows what he is talking about folks. Over and over again he comes to the table with hard thought out knowledge. There is no trick to it. It is proven methods for proper surround speaker setup. You can read the same thing that Chuckienut is saying in ever manual for out there for surround speakers.

Thanks much Axis for pointing out my error on the ports!



Lukeh, sorry, my big mistake!

The B1's and E1's are new speakers but I should have noticed. Thanks to Axis for correcting me in a post. The B1 is a rear ported bookshelf speaker and would not be appropriate for against the wall placement as it needs some room behind it, maybe at least 4-6 inches or more. The E1 can be hung directly on the wall since it has a front port. I'm sorry for my error! IMO both side and rear surround speakers should be high up and on the wall. The B1 is only good for on a stand or the leading edge of a shelf or see here: Now if you can find a speaker angle stand/shelf that extends out from the wall about (the B1 is 8.25" deep) 12/13" to maybe 14-15" that would be fine. I would see if you can do this and it is not too protruding.


Otherwise, I would see if Emotiva might be willing to exchange the B1's for the E1's. You should have 30 day return privilege on the B1's. This would be my best recommendation, going with the E1's. You could also keep the B1's for an excellent small bookshelf system.


PS:  There are many speaker shelves and mounts that might work for the B1's on the wall.  Google for speaker stands and mounts and any other similar wording.

www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&q=wall+speaker+mounts&oq=wall+speaker+mounts

[IBJamon]

Hey there! Long time no post. My brother recently got 4x B1s and a C1 to go with his ESS AMT 1Bs. I got to hear them yesterday.

I have to say, they are quite nice! Especially the C1. That one is something special.

Both sounded very good to my ears, with a nice tonal balance, and crisp, clear highs. I was very happy with that. I will say that none of them compare to the effortless sound of the ESSs. But tonally, they all have Heil AMTs (that's what the Airmotiv's use as tweeters) and they sound great together.

I wonder if it's the smaller woofers or the crossovers that starts to show signs of strain at high volume levels. Though I have to say that I was listening to them in my brother's bedroom, so it was far from an optimum listening environment.

In my case, I would love to put them on my walls, but the B1s seem to be a bit too deep for this use, especially with the rear ports. I am considering the E1s, but I regularly watch movies near reference level (I have a Pioneer Elite SC-77 THX certified receiver) so being able to handle loud dynamics well is really important to me.

It's also possible that what I was hearing (the effortless sound) is just because I am used to hearing the boxless dipole sound of the ESS. Maybe if I heard them by themselves in my own HT where I have heard many other speakers and am more familiar with the soundstage I might think differently.

Regardless, do we know how well the E1s handle 100+db peaks? I also see that iron core inductor on the crossover. How much improvement would we see if we replace that?

Thanks for your insights,

IBJamon

[garbulky]

Expecting small speakers to handle tons of dynamics is expecting too much. Small speakers can definitely do dynamics, but you want high volume levels with dynamics, go instead for bigger speakers or horns or something like that. Also for high volume levels a power amp will help the speakers not sound as strained.

[IBJamon]

The amps that we had the speakers hooked up to is one of the most powerful receivers this millenium (Pioneer Elite VSX-47TX), which is a measured >110W with all 7 channels driven. Basically almost UPA levels of power. So yes, a true 200WPC amp would be nice, but not a massive difference.

I know that I am perhaps hoping for too much from these speakers... which is why I am asking about it.

Any plans to make a E series speaker with a larger woofer (say, 5-6" size)?

I admit I am having a tough time holding back given the price and 10% off...

My current speakers are BIC Acoustechs, which tonally don't match very well, and don't sound nearly as good as my other speakers (AMT >> horns) but dynamics are probably its strong suit.

[garbulky]

Well what about an airmotiv 6s?

[lukeh]

Aug 19, 2016 23:22:50 GMT -5 @tllfkacn said:

.......... Denon might have the LFE confused in their manual and on the receiver, I haven't read it.  You must mean more of the low end stuff to the LFE sub.  I know it is confusing, but the LFE is actually the .1 channel in 5.1 or 7.1.  The prep/pro in the Denon if done correctly, should send the LFE channel as is on the disc from 120Hz and down (if there are any tones in the LFE above 120Hz that is wrong!) and combine it with the lower bass you have selected by your sub/main crossover level and send it all to the sub together.  Some brands screw this up and subsequently many folks are very confused and think the LFE is the sub channel.  The sub channel is the LFE plus the re-directed lower (from the 5 or 7 channels) bass combined.  Only one RCA mono input is really necessary on the sub (if you have the sub cross on the pre/pro set to 80Hz or below, since the 80Hz and below is effectively mono (stereo subs below 80Hz is a very common confusion, even here). The reason subs go higher is due to roll off above 80Hz or when matching the sub with speakers like some small bookshelf, small center or small surrounds that need a higher crossover above 80Hz.  Since there should be very little info above 80Hz on the LFE channel you could set the LFE at 120Hz or even 80Hz (maybe best).  Actually no LFE crossover/filter is necessary if done correctly as the LFE channel filters itself below 120Hz.   Be sure to never use the crossover/filter (set it to off or bypass) on the sub panel, that is for an older style system with no bass management in a pre-pro.  Powered subs for modern HT systems really only need an input jack (maybe output for daisy chain), phase dial or switch and a volume/gain knob and power switch.  Some have there own EQ system, etc. which can be nice.

I like to set the cross/filters on both the mains (if not too small) and the sub (good sub(s) at 80Hz.  Should be fine for your T1, C1 and B1 and sub.  You could try  dropping the T1 down to 70Hz but no lower IMO (and perhaps the B1 at 90Hz). 

So Denon offers a few options these days though the manual is less than helpful on what exactly the options are modifying.

1. Under bass Management if you haven't set your speakers to small you have set the subwoofer mode to LFE+Mains but it does nothing if you set your speakers to small based on my research.
2. Under this same panel there is also a Low Profile Filter for the LFE channel. These systems have a LPF for the LFE channel. This is the low pass filter (LPF) setting of the low frequency effects (LFE) channel. It is usually included in the crossover settings for bass management, but it has nothing to do with bass management. This is the high frequency cutoff point for the LFE, also known as the .1 channel in a 5.1/6.1/7.1 surround source. In practice this should always be set to 120Hz since the LFE channel supports information up to that frequency. When you set this lower than 120Hz the receiver or preamp will not redirect the LFE information to other channels. Instead it is not reproduced by the surround system. It should also be noted that this setting has nothing to do with how bass is managed for the full range channels in a surround system. So back to 120hz it goes since there is no way to actually turn this filter off.
3. There is a Cross over panel, this one specifically controls all speaker cross overs or individual one depending on how you set things. Also if your speakers are set to large you are not allowed to change the cross overs since none are supposed to be needed.

I would perhaps go for a better amp and sub before you add a 6th and 7th speakers.  Look for a big (and many times heavy) sub for the best performance, the little cube style subs are relatively more expensive and not so good, too complicated to explain now.  A high quality 5.1 system IMO is better than a mediocre 7.1 system.  It is hard to see the side walls in your photo, but it doesn't look too good for side surrounds (6&7).  In a new room you could go for 7.1 with surrounds both on the side walls and on the rear wall.  However, this doesn't work too well if the sofa is right up against the back wall.  Ideally the side surrounds would be about 90 degrees to the side of the seating area or slight;y back a foot or so and again up high.  For a temporary test you might try getting your B1 stands/surrounds up high on some sturdy wood boxes, etc to see how that sounds, right against the rear wall is fine.

Right, at the moment the two additional channels I have are being used by the Atmos Speakers rather than side surrounds. So really I'm running a 5.1.2 system. In a larger space (One that I own mind you) I'd probably consider doing height speakers in ceiling or something along those lines. Maybe one day soon.

As far as Audyssey goes I would again be sure it set all 5 speakers at small.  Also be sure it's does not make any significant boost in the low bass area.  Just a 3dB boost at any frequency will require twice the power, not good in the bass range.

It looks like the calibrated EQ has rolled off the low-end on almost everything on the configurable speakers save the center channel. I actually changed the speaker size settings manually and adjusted the cross overs manually. So really Audyessy at this point is only responsible for the calibrated level adjustments and dynamic EQ at least for the moment.

I know I've posted lots of info here and some Lounge members will disagree with some of my comments.   All the best in your new system!

Chuck  


Lukeh, sorry, my big mistake!   The B1's and E1's are new speakers but I should have noticed.  Thanks to Axis for correcting me in a post.  The B1 is a rear ported bookshelf speaker and would not be appropriate for against the wall placement as it needs some room behind it, maybe at least 4-6 inches or more.  The E1 can be hung directly on the wall since it has a front port.  I'm sorry for my error!  IMO both side and rear surround speakers should be high up and on the wall.  The B1 is only good for on a stand or the leading edge of a shelf or see here:  Now if you can find a speaker angle stand/shelf that extends out from the wall about (the B1 is 8.25" deep) 12/13" to maybe 14-15" that would be fine.  I would see if you can do this and it is not too protruding.  
\
Otherwise, I would see if Emotiva might be willing to exchange the B1's for the E1's.  You should have 30 day return privilege on the B1's.  This would be my best recommendation, going with the E1's.  You could also keep the B1's for an excellent small bookshelf system.  


PS: There are many speaker shelves and mounts that might work for the B1's on the wall. Google for speaker stands and mounts and any other similar wording.

www.google.com/search?newwindow=1&q=wall+speaker+mounts&oq=wall+speaker+mounts

 

 

I considered the E1 but I've run bookshelf style speakers in my setup since I put things together and I'd rather the larger woofers on the B1. The picture might be a tad deceiving, there is a little more space behind the sofa then it looks like even though it looks it bit odd against the wall. There is about 8" of clearance behind the sofa and the B1(s) have about 5" of clearance behind the ports since the leading edge of the stands are tucked under the sofa.. Later on in a larger space I might do ceiling/wall mount or something like that but it's not a really great option for the moment though I haven't thrown the idea out the window. It would be nicer than the stands I have.

For now I pushed the speaker stands in the back up to about 45" from the floor to the bottom of the speaker which is about as high as they can go with a slight upward tilt.

[khurram]

Very nicely packaged. Double boxed with styrofoam all around and then the speakers are covered with a black cloth. The build quality feels very very nice.

[IBJamon]

Aug 20, 2016 13:27:44 GMT -5 garbulky said:

Well what about an airmotiv 6s?

I've thought about that, though the added complexity of setting up auto power switching, building a shelf, and still being deep and not really wall-hanging worthy (and increased price, though still very reasonable!) have kept me from making that move.

A design like the E1, but with bigger drivers, would be close to perfect.

[Deleted]

Aug 20, 2016 13:23:40 GMT -5 IBJamon said:

The amps that we had the speakers hooked up to is one of the most powerful receivers this millenium (Pioneer Elite VSX-47TX), which is a measured >110W with all 7 channels driven. Basically almost UPA levels of power. So yes, a true 200WPC amp would be nice, but not a massive difference.

I know that I am perhaps hoping for too much from these speakers... which is why I am asking about it.

Any plans to make a E series speaker with a larger woofer (say, 5-6" size)?

I admit I am having a tough time holding back given the price and 10% off...

My current speakers are BIC Acoustechs, which tonally don't match very well, and don't sound nearly as good as my other speakers (AMT >> horns) but dynamics are probably its strong suit.

I'm presuming, at least hoping you are setting the surround speakers to "small" (not "full range") in the bass management section of the Pioneer AVR (think it's called MCACC).  Many times these auto speakers setup systems incorrectly leave small surround speakers at full range, bad!.  Most modern surround systems (5.1 and 7.1) use fairly small speakers for the surrounds, this is practical and just fine (due to the bass management in the pre/pro).  Also the surrounds usually get less volume and need less power than the front LCR speakers.  These small surrounds are usually good down to about 80-110hz or so at -3dB's.  They are not designed to play back bass lower than 80Hz at loud levels.  That is why you must have a sub in your system.  Be sure the auto speaker system (override it if it hasn't) should designate the surrounds as "small' and crossover the tones below (80-100Hz or where you set it) to the sub.  Therefore the small surround will be relieved of trying to reproduce the low bass tones which are correctly re-directed to the sub.  Having the sub in your system besides reproducing the low bass below 80Hz or so (maybe 50-60Hz in your system), transfers any low bass in the surround channels and sends it to the sub.   Ideally if you have a modern quality powered sub it would take over the low bass from your AMT-1B's at about 50-60Hz and the C1 at about 80Hz.  Usually one will cross from the main L&R to to the sub at about 20-30Hz above the L&R's -3dB level.

This all might not be what you are wanting to hear as many folks think the AMT-1B would be all you need as it goes quite low but one needs to consider the current loud and low frequency levels in modern movies, especially Blu-Ray need the sub for all 5-7 channels lowest bass plus the LFE channel (this is the .1 channel in 5.1).  Without a sub you would missing out on a lot of terrific movie low sounds.  If you need a sub I would look to one of the online direct sub dealers for great subs and buys.  HSU, Outlaw Audio, SVS, Rythmik and Power Sound Audio.

I've been around for years and remember the ESS AMT's well.  They are great full range speakers, but full range means for music and not movies which can have low bass down to 20Hz and lower (including the LFE channel at +10dB's output).  The AMT-1B's are flat (-3dB's) down to about the 30Hz range.  They do need a sub for the movie sound below that 30Hz level and should be crossed to a good sub at about 50-60Hz.

I would go for the E1's up high on the walls (at least 2' above ear level) in a 5.1 system or in a 7.1 system 2 of the E1's on the side and 2 E1's on the rear walls if you have room.  That Pioneer is not rated into 4 ohms but you should have no issues with the 4 ohm C1.  PS:  I see he got 4ea E1's, I see no problem they should do just fine up high on the walls, not in a corner or too close to the ceiling.

PS:  There is some confusion on the ESS models and I'm also presuming you have the AMT-1B floor standing model and not the AMT-1b bookshelf model.  (Either way, the sub comment would apply, just a higher crossover for the bookshelf model.) 
 

[khurram]

They're running just fine without any clipping to the level I like to listen at. They look really nice. Comparing them with the ELAC UB5 in a strict 2.0 setup using my cheap Yamaha V673 receiver, I'll say the following:

- Build quality and packaging is much much better than ELACs.
- UB5 sound more clear and transparent. Music and movie dialogues sound clearer without sounding bright on the ELACs. T1 are no slouch and maybe with some tweaking or burn in, they will sound even better.
- Bass is definitely better on the T1. Twin 6 inch woofers makes a world of difference. I do feel a slight boominess but that could be fixed by moving them a little farther from the front wall.
- The T-Rex breaking the fence in Jurassic Park is a good test. T1 hardly broke a sweat and I could feel the roar of the dino. Remember, there is no sub connected.
- Have I said that they look really really nice?

Overall I can say I'm very happy. I'll connect my ELAC S10 to take some load off of the receiver but I think it'll subtract from the experience. I'll find out on Monday.

[khurram]

I'll quickly add, I'm in an apartment so a thundering roaring powerhouse sub is out of the question.

[copperpipe]

Aug 20, 2016 16:07:23 GMT -5 khurram said:

- UB5 sound more clear and transparent. Music and movie dialogues sound clearer without sounding bright on the ELACs. T1 are no slouch and maybe with some tweaking or burn in, they will sound even better.

Give the airmotiv some time to break in; if those ribbon tweaters are anything like the ones on my adam's, the treble will sound quite compressed for a while (no dynamics), but eventually they opened up a ton. One of the few speakers I bought where I really noticed break in was a "real thing". I have 4 pair's of adam's, bought over the space of 1.5 years, and each time I bought a new pair I could directly compare to the old pair. When I bought my second pair and heard them next to the first, I was ready to bring them back thinking something was wrong with them They opened up with time, and each new pair I bought had the same "problem".

[IBJamon]

Aug 20, 2016 15:58:53 GMT -5 @tllfkacn said:

Aug 20, 2016 13:23:40 GMT -5 IBJamon said:

The amps that we had the speakers hooked up to is one of the most powerful receivers this millenium (Pioneer Elite VSX-47TX), which is a measured >110W with all 7 channels driven. Basically almost UPA levels of power. So yes, a true 200WPC amp would be nice, but not a massive difference.

I know that I am perhaps hoping for too much from these speakers... which is why I am asking about it.

Any plans to make a E series speaker with a larger woofer (say, 5-6" size)?

I admit I am having a tough time holding back given the price and 10% off...

My current speakers are BIC Acoustechs, which tonally don't match very well, and don't sound nearly as good as my other speakers (AMT >> horns) but dynamics are probably its strong suit.

I'm presuming, at least hoping you are setting the surround speakers to "small" (not "full range") in the bass management section of the Pioneer AVR (think it's called MCACC).  Many times these auto speakers setup systems incorrectly leave small surround speakers at full range, bad!.  Most modern surround systems (5.1 and 7.1) use fairly small speakers for the surrounds, this is practical and just fine (due to the bass management in the pre/pro).  Also the surrounds usually get less volume and need less power than the front LCR speakers.  These small surrounds are usually good down to about 80-110hz or so at -3dB's.  They are not designed to play back bass lower than 80Hz at loud levels.  That is why you must have a sub in your system.  Be sure the auto speaker system (override it if it hasn't) should designate the surrounds as "small' and crossover the tones below (80-100Hz or where you set it) to the sub.  Therefore the small surround will be relieved of trying to reproduce the low bass tones which are correctly re-directed to the sub.  Having the sub in your system besides reproducing the low bass below 80Hz or so (maybe 50-60Hz in your system), transfers any low bass in the surround channels and sends it to the sub.   Ideally if you have a modern quality powered sub it would take over the low bass from your AMT-1B's at about 50-60Hz and the C1 at about 80Hz.  Usually one will cross from the main L&R to to the sub at about 20-30Hz above the L&R's -3dB level.

This all might not be what you are wanting to hear as many folks think the AMT-1B would be all you need as it goes quite low but one needs to consider the current loud and low frequency levels in modern movies, especially Blu-Ray need the sub for all 5-7 channels lowest bass plus the LFE channel (this is the .1 channel in 5.1).  Without a sub you would missing out on a lot of terrific movie low sounds.  If you need a sub I would look to one of the online direct sub dealers for great subs and buys.  HSU, Outlaw Audio, SVS, Rythmik and Power Sound Audio.

I've been around for years and remember the ESS AMT's well.  They are great full range speakers, but full range means for music and not movies which can have low bass down to 20Hz and lower (including the LFE channel at +10dB's output).  The AMT-1B's are flat (-3dB's) down to about the 30Hz range.  They do need a sub for the movie sound below that 30Hz level and should be crossed to a good sub at about 50-60Hz.

I would go for the E1's up high on the walls (at least 2' above ear level) in a 5.1 system or in a 7.1 system 2 of the E1's on the side and 2 E1's on the rear walls if you have room.  That Pioneer is not rated into 4 ohms but you should have no issues with the 4 ohm C1.

PS:  There is some confusion on the ESS models and I'm also presuming you have the AMT-1B floor standing model and not the AMT-1b bookshelf model.  (Either way, the sub comment would apply, just a higher crossover for the bookshelf model.) 
 

ChuckieNut,

Thank you for your helpful post! Thankfully, I already follow most of your advice. My receiver is the SC-77 (his is the 47TX) and they are 4 ohm safe. Besides, while the 47TX was never rated for 4 ohms, many bench tests showed that it handled it just fine. Also, these were my brother's 1Bs (he has 2 pairs). I have four pairs of ESS speakers - AMT 3s, AMT 1Cs, AMT 1D bookshelfs, and PS Model 5s. My dad has 3 pairs (2x AMT 1s, 1x AMT 1C Monitors), and another brother has 1x 1B bookshelfs, 1x Concept CE-Ms and 1x CE-1s. And yet another brother has 1x AMT 4s, and yet another with Tempest Model 8s. Yes, I have a lot of brothers, and yes we are all obsessive ESS nuts!

In my small circle of friends and family, I am somewhat of an ESS history nut, so I am very familiar with their model lines, and have personally refurbed 5 pairs of ESS speakers (refoaming, crossover rebuilding). In my HT, I have my AMT 3s in front, one of my 1D bookshelfs sideways as a center, and my PS 5s in the rear on some stands I built. I hope to have my side surrounds be either ESS (unlikely... they never really made small speakers with Heils except for PS 820s) or the newer Heil derivatives to finally have my HT be completely Heils everywhere. That's my goal, anyway.

That's why I have been following this speaker line closely - I would love to complete this at a fair price. I am also considering the possibility of DIY'ing something, or perhaps the Emotiva LCR on-wall speakers they showed off but never released.

[IBJamon]

Aug 20, 2016 16:12:28 GMT -5 copperpipe said:

Aug 20, 2016 16:07:23 GMT -5 khurram said:

- UB5 sound more clear and transparent. Music and movie dialogues sound clearer without sounding bright on the ELACs. T1 are no slouch and maybe with some tweaking or burn in, they will sound even better.

Give the airmotiv some time to break in; if those ribbon tweaters are anything like the ones on my adam's, the treble will sound quite compressed for a while (no dynamics), but eventually they opened up a ton. One of the few speakers I bought where I really noticed break in was a "real thing". I have 4 pair's of adam's, bought over the space of 1.5 years, and each time I bought a new pair I could directly compare to the old pair. When I bought my second pair and heard them next to the first, I was ready to bring them back thinking something was wrong with them They opened up with time, and each new pair I bought had the same "problem".

Well that's interesting. I wonder if what I was hearing from my brother's B1s was that very thing. (Again, not bad! but not as open sounding as the real ESS.)

[Deleted]

Aug 20, 2016 16:14:52 GMT -5 IBJamon said:

ChuckieNut,

Thank you for your helpful post! Thankfully, I already follow most of your advice. My receiver is the SC-77 (his is the 47TX) and they are 4 ohm safe. Besides, while the 47TX was never rated for 4 ohms, many bench tests showed that it handled it just fine. Also, these were my brother's 1Bs (he has 2 pairs). I have four pairs of ESS speakers - AMT 3s, AMT 1Cs, AMT 1D bookshelfs, and PS Model 5s. My dad has 3 pairs (2x AMT 1s, 1x AMT 1C Monitors), and another brother has 1x 1B bookshelfs, 1x Concept CE-Ms and 1x CE-1s. And yet another brother has 1x AMT 4s, and yet another with Tempest Model 8s. Yes, I have a lot of brothers, and yes we are all obsessive ESS nuts!

In my small circle of friends and family, I am somewhat of an ESS history nut, so I am very familiar with their model lines, and have personally refurbed 5 pairs of ESS speakers (refoaming, crossover rebuilding). In my HT, I have my AMT 3s in front, one of my 1D bookshelfs sideways as a center, and my PS 5s in the rear on some stands I built. I hope to have my side surrounds be either ESS (unlikely... they never really made small speakers with Heils except for PS 820s) or the newer Heil derivatives to finally have my HT be completely Heils everywhere. That's my goal, anyway.

That's why I have been following this speaker line closely - I would love to complete this at a fair price. I am also considering the possibility of DIY'ing something, or perhaps the Emotiva LCR on-wall speakers they showed off but never released.

Obviously a quite rare illness called ESS/AMT-Compulsive-Itis runs in your family!