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Post by thrasher on Sept 12, 2016 14:26:13 GMT -5
I just got done moving into a new home and could use some help setting up my system.
I have an XPA5, UMC200, Dynaudio Sub300, Klispch KLF 30 and a pair of Klipsch RB10 satellite speakers for my rears.
Previously, I've ran emo-q and although it "worked", I wasn't blown away. I've also tried running direct and also went in and messed with dB levels to trick the system into getting this system to do what I know it's capable of.
Anyone have a sure fire solution for setting this up once and for all? I feel like I've beat this topic up numerous times. Could use some help.
Thank you
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Sept 12, 2016 14:40:52 GMT -5
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Post by thrasher on Sept 12, 2016 14:44:59 GMT -5
Oops... Forgot, center is a KLF C7. Room is hardwood floors, 14'x20'. One large picture window. For now, I've set the sub near the front, off to the side, near wall and next to a couch.
Would you run emo q or not? Previous attempts to this everything gets really loud but not much bass from the mains.
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Post by thrasher on Sept 12, 2016 14:46:37 GMT -5
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Post by macromicroman on Sept 12, 2016 14:56:01 GMT -5
Your dog wants to sit in the sweet spot so it can hear your great system.
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Post by thrasher on Sept 12, 2016 14:56:42 GMT -5
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Post by novisnick on Sept 12, 2016 15:07:54 GMT -5
Poor doggie! Scoot over!  Throw a rug in front of each speaker and give a listen! You'll be very surprised!  |
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Post by thrasher on Sept 12, 2016 15:08:55 GMT -5
I was thinking about restoring to default and going from there. Correct? Forgive my ignorance on this. I'd gladly pay someone to come set it up. Zip 98226. I want to enjoy, not tinker.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Sept 12, 2016 15:41:12 GMT -5
Copy them without the last ")" But all i did was a simple google search for each speaker and looked for reviews with measured responses and/or reports. The 30 is good for about 50 so 60 is a good crossover and the 10 breaks up in the lowers so 100 is a good start. The sub has limitations also but you can find out what they are with a search. I would also look into using REW to get a good sonic picture but something tells me you might not like a flat sound to begin with. (not enough bass?) I could be wrong but most folks don't either.  Bring the fronts a bit from the wall and yes a throw rug will help. Is the sub behind you? If so, maybe play with the phase? |
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Post by thrasher on Sept 12, 2016 15:43:16 GMT -5
Copy them without the last ")" But all i did was a simple google search for each speaker and looked for reviews with measured responses and/or reports. The 30 is good for about 50 so 60 is a good crossover and the 10 breaks up in the lowers so 100 is a good start. The sub has limitations also but you can find out what they are with a search. I would also look into using REW to get a good sonic picture but something tells me you might not like a flat sound to begin with. (not enough bass?) I could be wrong but most folks don't either. Correct. Flat sounds bad to me. I want to hear and feel it. |
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Sept 12, 2016 15:45:04 GMT -5
Copy them without the last ")" But all i did was a simple google search for each speaker and looked for reviews with measured responses and/or reports. The 30 is good for about 50 so 60 is a good crossover and the 10 breaks up in the lowers so 100 is a good start. The sub has limitations also but you can find out what they are with a search. I would also look into using REW to get a good sonic picture but something tells me you might not like a flat sound to begin with. (not enough bass?) I could be wrong but most folks don't either. Correct. Flat sounds bad to me. I want to hear and feel it. And doing that makes everything else sound muddy and off. Welcome to the audiophile world. Getting good sound is balancing what you like with what room acoustics lets you get away with. After all physics is physics. Try the speaker and crossover settings after resetting the whole system and start from there. |
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Post by rbk123 on Sept 12, 2016 16:10:24 GMT -5
Sound is fine; you need a bigger TV.
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Post by vneal on Sept 12, 2016 16:18:32 GMT -5
My suggestion is an throw rug covering most of your wooden floor and HEAVY DRAPES on the window. And pull those speaker out 2 feet from the corners. Imaging will improve.
Do a clap test. Walk into your room and cap your hands as loudly as you can. You should hear no echo at all.
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Post by thrasher on Sept 12, 2016 19:17:54 GMT -5
So don't run emo q?
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Post by rbk123 on Sept 12, 2016 20:50:54 GMT -5
Run it after you do the room treatments.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 12, 2016 21:43:17 GMT -5
No offense intended, just being honest here and hopefully helpful as I don't have time to come up to Bellingham from Seattle. Get the L&R speakers away from the corner, at least 12" from the front wall (they have two rear firing ports) and at least 12-18" from the sides walls. Corner placement is bad except for Klipschorn's! Start with L&R's facing straight ahead, later maybe a slight toe in. The leading edge of the corner speaker should be at the front edge of the shelf it is on or an inch or so forward. The L&R normally should be slightly out ahead of the center, so that all three LCR's are equal distance to the main listening seat. The center should be 12" or more from the wall, the TV, component, center speaker cabinet might need to be moved slightly away from the wall. The KLF 30's and the KLF C7 are great speakers. The RB10's are very small but fine for the surrounds. If possible do not place them at ear level and pointing directly at the ears. Put them up high (at least 2' or more above ear level) on the side or rear walls (depends on your room ... 4 wide photos from the front, rear and both side walls out towards the opposite walls would be very helpful). If the RB10's need to be on ear level stands then tilt the speakers up slightly with wedges, shims, etc. so they don't point directly at the ears. Photos will let us advise whether they should be on the side or rear of the room. Many times there is only one choice for the surrounds. This is important and some members here will disagree. The auto room correction software in the pre-pro's many times make mistakes. Also many times the speaker specs are not quite accurate in the lower bass. Regardless of the Klipsch low bass specs they need a sub for good low bass in music and especially for movie sound tracks. The KLF 30 spec of 36Hz at -3dB's is somewhat exaggerated for the most clean and low distortion bass below 50Hz. Secrets, HT, Hi Fi says: Even though these towers have two 12" speakers, they are not efficient at reproducing bass notes below 50 Hz. Yeah, lots of folks will say they have two 12" drivers so they should go very low, just not true, 50Hz is fine with a great sub and the KLF 30's are super loud, tight and of low distortion in the bass. This will surprise many but the UMC-200 should set them all to "small" rather than "large/full range." This small/large setting has nothing to so with the size of the speaker, but if and at what frequency one re-directs the lower bass from the main 5 (7) speakers and combines with LFE channel (the .1 channel in the 5.1 movie sound tracks). I recommend after properly placing the speakers that you set the crossover frequencies for the L&R at 80Hz (maybe 70Hz), the center C7 at 80Hz and the RB10's at 100Hz. This will send the lower bass from the 5 sound track channels to the sub, combined with the LFE signal which is only the louder .1 channel that contains only low frequency special effects sounds that are 10dB's louder than the main channel loudness. For many brands this is unnecessarily confusing and even mis-understood. Don't be afraid to manually override any mistakes by the Emo-Q setup. All channels in the cycling test tone test on the UMC-200 should be of equal loudness at your main seating area. Manually check the distance from the seat to the 5 speakers if necessary. if unsure set all 5 channels to the same test loudness from you seat and leave the 5 speakers at flat (no plus or minus frequency variations( to start with. A radio shack meter is great help if you have one as the human ears and even the auto setup sytems are not that accurate. The single sub might be better near the front of the room, somewhere near the front wall (corner is OK but not as tight sounding) or between that wall and the sofa's. One last issue that I'm sure you won't want to hear. You have a great system with the XPA-5, UMC-200 and Klipsch speakers. Your only weakness I see is in your sub at least for movies. The European Dynaudio 300 is a nice well built sub but does not go that low ..... maybe 32Hz with EXT OFF mode, recommended to keep up with the Klipsch's volume output. It should be very nice, especially with music at reasonable levels but less than a perfect match for the very sensitive Klipsch fronts in high dynamic music and loud LFE playback. Make all crossover and frequency adjustments in the UMC-200 and not on the sub Look to online direct dealers for great subs at a low price, HSU Research, Outlaw Audio, SVS, Rythmik and Power Sound Audio. Hey, wait a minute! I have a rather poor memory due to advancing age and medical issues, like a rapidly shrinking brain. I can remember the neighbor girl's (Karen) birthday in Bremerton from when I was 5-8 years old, July 19th, 1944. But I usually can't remember what happened last week or three months or more ago including Lounge threads. Uh .......... thrasher .......... thrasher .......... thrasher .......... Lynden/Bellingham, Worshington near gorgeous Mt Baker ........... I'm getting a feeling of having Déjà vu all over again and it's not the Déjà Vu Showgirls - The Ultimate Strip Club in Seattle (Google it). I think we went thru this already at length. How did the speakers get in the corner, Mt. Baker earthquake? emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/45690/klipsch-klf30s-emotiva-gear?page=1 (I deleted my long post from that thread back then.) I'm out of here folks. www.google.com/search?q=mt+baker+photos&newwindow=1&rlz=1CAHPZT_enUS708US709&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjq257cp4vPAhVIyoMKHdOPAzQQsAQIHQ&biw=1366&bih=631
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Post by teaman on Sept 12, 2016 23:43:24 GMT -5
I have the same speakers up front as you do thrasher. A pair of KLF-30's with a KLF-C7. My heights and back surrounds are Klipsch SB-3's. Take note of where chuckienut steered you, he is pretty accurate. Also, the crossover points bootman gave you are pretty close. I have my fronts crossed over at 70 and my sub at 60. There is a lot of bass that the KLF's put out so the booming thumping bass from a sub doesn't need to be as present. I actually bumped my center up a couple of db's to compensate for the huge sound of the towers that have a tendency to overpower the center at times. I have the Sherbourn PT-7020C4 and not the UMC-200 so it won't be apples to apples but probably close. I never used the room EQ as I tweaked according to what I like to hear in my room. Look over the details chuckienut gave you and see where it leads you. Good luck!
Tim
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Post by creimes on Sept 13, 2016 9:48:51 GMT -5
Speakers jammed into the corners = not good haha
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Post by teaman on Sept 21, 2016 1:02:04 GMT -5
Update. Someone on the Klipsch forum paid thrasher a visit and helped him dial in his system. In the end the one assisting him brought in a Sunfire Grand amp and processor and the bass and punch was instantly introduced into the equation. Room acoustics also played a part as they had to make a few adjustments to his room to get things better situated to get the bass to thrasher's liking.
Overall, I am happy to hear that the speakers were good to go and he is now happy....or at least happier.
Tim
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2016 2:09:59 GMT -5
Update. Someone on the Klipsch forum paid thrasher a visit and helped him dial in his system. In the end the one assisting him brought in a Sunfire Grand amp and processor and the bass and punch was instantly introduced into the equation. Room acoustics also played a part as they had to make a few adjustments to his room to get things better situated to get the bass to thrasher's liking. Overall, I am happy to hear that the speakers were good to go and he is now happy....or at least happier. Tim Tim, thanks for the update on thrasher as I tried to help him, but gave up since he just couldn't follow simple instructions. I know it is not his fault, but I am not able due to health reasons to travel up to Bellingham to help as he requested of me. I'm sure the Klipsch guy was a big help in finally properly getting his system set up. However, I seriously doubt whether the Sunfire gear had anything to do with the improvement. The XPA-5 is a great amp and the equal or better of any of the Sunfire amps IMO. If there was any problem which I was already afraid of for thrasher (and maybe the Klipsch guy too) is the somewhat confusing set up issues with the UMC-200 in the bass management area and Emo-Q. I'm wondering if maybe the Klipsch guy didn't try to use the UMC-200 (or got confused ) or just presumed his Sunfire gear was superior. It was obvious thrasher had serious issues with the speaker placements, live room and probably the sub connections and settings. However, there is no doubt in my mind if I had been able to go to his place I could have also solved the problems without ever changing out the Emo power amp and pre-pro. They were not the problem at all IMO! I just don't want anyone here to think when properly set up the Sunfire gear would have been superior sound wise. I grew up in the Seattle area, the home of Bob Carver, Phase Linear, Carver and Sunfire. He was a brilliant guy who loved to tinker and perhaps a little goofy at times. His products were mostly excellent but not better in sound than the Emo amps. I'm also glad to hear is finally happy. No offense intended to anybody. Chuckienut |
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