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Post by Axis on Mar 7, 2017 17:03:12 GMT -5
All analog is fine with me - BUT the world is going digital - AND the majority of potential customers (remember them) have other options competing for the same market $$$ that offer additional features (like that DAC that y'all so firmly reject). Dan isn't out to please you (or me). He's out to sell preamps. If he's as smart as I suspect he is, the next XSP may be a analog/digital hybrid like most of the competition is. As to any (ANY) contention that having a DAC in the box hurts sound quality - I call an unmitigated BS. Long, long ago (say three to five years), I'd have agreed with you that one couldn't get the best of analog sound out of a hybrid box due to the internal RF interference. But just LISTEN to the PT-100. It has a DAC, and it sounds better (to my ears) than the XSP. Proof of concept, amigos - it's THERE. So the question of DAC / No DAC boils down to whether Dan'll sell more boxes with or without one. I can't answer that question, but I'm (strongly) suspecting that the answer is with. Boom I believe you Boom, but could it be named something other than the XSP or be in a whole new category of analog/digital products ? |
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Post by yeeeha17 on Mar 7, 2017 17:46:50 GMT -5
Emotiva digital preamp = XMC-1,it's fully ballance, have a great DAC, and DIRAC. No point of building an XSP digital preamp.
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 7, 2017 17:56:20 GMT -5
All analog is fine with me - BUT the world is going digital - AND the majority of potential customers (remember them) have other options competing for the same market $$$ that offer additional features (like that DAC that y'all so firmly reject). Dan isn't out to please you (or me). He's out to sell preamps. If he's as smart as I suspect he is, the next XSP may be a analog/digital hybrid like most of the competition is. As to any (ANY) contention that having a DAC in the box hurts sound quality - I call an unmitigated BS. Long, long ago (say three to five years), I'd have agreed with you that one couldn't get the best of analog sound out of a hybrid box due to the internal RF interference. But just LISTEN to the PT-100. It has a DAC, and it sounds better (to my ears) than the XSP. Proof of concept, amigos - it's THERE. So the question of DAC / No DAC boils down to whether Dan'll sell more boxes with or without one. I can't answer that question, but I'm (strongly) suspecting that the answer is with. Boom But the "proof of concept" as you call it, is just your own ears. That is only proof to you. Schiit is a company I highly respect despite their name, and they don't do integrated DAC's and preamps. If you look at their FAQ's, they have questions like why don't you do a combined DAC and preamp or amp, to which they respond that they do, you just buy the two units and connect them together (Magni and Modi, or Vali and Modi, for example). Their new preamps, the Saga and Freya, are both purely analog. They tell you to add the DAC to it. I think Emo should retain a high-level analog only preamp and if a DAC is needed, to it modular style like the Jotunheim. But not an integrated DAC/analog preamp. |
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Post by Axis on Mar 7, 2017 18:07:41 GMT -5
The XSP is an analog preamp.
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Post by brutiarti on Mar 7, 2017 18:26:01 GMT -5
Deja vu!
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Post by deltadube on Mar 7, 2017 18:56:31 GMT -5
I have been thinking about getting one for a long time. There is still a few things on this Gen 2 that I am not crazy about. So, anybody knows if there is a Gen 3 in the works. its awesome just buy it!!!!! |
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Post by RichGuy on Mar 7, 2017 21:10:35 GMT -5
This is my XSP-1's DAC, it's completely modular just plug it in.  |
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Post by audiobliss on Mar 7, 2017 21:32:39 GMT -5
I strongly suspect you are correct. I use to be a purist also and use to be totally against it also. However, after trying a few preamp with Dacs, and even with Bluetooth, it took nothing away from the analog whatsoever.
It just adds the convenience like having a phono stage in a preamp.
Less boxes, less wires, less things to endless tweak and upgrade.
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 7, 2017 21:43:58 GMT -5
I believe you Boom, but could it be named something other than the XSP or be in a whole new category of analog/digital products ? But of course! |
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Post by RichGuy on Mar 7, 2017 21:44:54 GMT -5
Receivers are for that, the XSP-1 is for people who want separates.
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Post by solarrdadd on Mar 7, 2017 21:50:16 GMT -5
Boom, you bring up DLNA streaming. Have you had any luck in getting DLNA Servers to stream high-resolution DSD, etc. files to a DLNA Client without converting them? A friend of mine who's gone over-the-top with DSD, etc. files gave up on DLNA because he couldn't get any of the DLNA Servers that he tried to send the data in native High-Resolution Format. (Plus all of the User Interfaces he tried sucked.) This experience is what led him down the road to trying Roon (which he loves). I'm beginning to think that what we need is just a simple, not-too-expensive, easy-to-use "Streaming Module" which has Ethernet on one side and USB and S/PDIF (optical/coax) on the other. I've been hoping that this would just be built into things like the RMC-1, etc. but I understand the desire not to add complication and cost ... and that it really does require a separate CPU/OS to avoid impact to the main Real-Time OS running the processors. I.e. something like the Sonore microRendu but not as pointlessly expensive ($600 for the equivalent of a Raspberry Pi, a digital audio board, and a cheesy case is a bit much). But of course, then you have to pick DLNA, or Roon, or Squeeze Client, or, or, or ... Or maybe not. I suppose since such a Streaming Module wouldn't have any other purpose it could simply run all the popular digital media servers ... Casey I have a 4TB Synology DS216j NAS that has a folder called "Music" on it and it has all my hi rez FLAC (everything up to 192/24), APE, WAV & DSD(64, 128) music on it along with iTunes and WMA music and on both Marantz units, all my Oppo's I can see that folder and stream that file to it and let it do the decoding with absolutely no problem. FLAC stays FLAC, DSD stays DSD, etc. no transcoding or anything, the untouched music moves as data and is decoded at the other end by the DAC of the device streaming it. my NAS and everything I have that has an Ethernet jack is connected via my Cat6 wired gigabit network and I live in an apartment and have 2 bedrooms, living room, dinning room hardwired. I can also stream it untouched outside of my network to anywhere in the world with internet access. I've streamed stuff to my job from my NAS! so, yes, it can be done! by the way, my NAS & my 4TB drive were about $315.00 and took about 30 minutes to set up and I was rolling as soon as all my music was transferred from my old 1TB NAS to the new one (over the gigabit network). it's not as hard as you think. good luck! |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 7, 2017 21:52:42 GMT -5
But the "proof of concept" as you call it, is just your own ears. That is only proof to you. I'd argue that one as well, monkumonku - I've yet to see any review of the PT-100 preamp that didn't say something along the lines of "hits way above its price," or "a real bargain." That's just what I'm saying - but using different words. As to what Schiit does (or doesn't) do - Apples to oranges. I don't see any relevance. Other respected companies including Parasound, Rotel, McIntosh, Classé, and others integrate their preamps or integrated amps with DACs to no apparent sonic detriment. Now that said, I'm not arguing with your conclusion at all - If Emotiva thinks that there's a market for a purely analog preamp, they're certainly in good company. And it obviously goes without saying that the XSP product has sold not just well, but VERY well for a long time. So whatever Mr. Laufman and homeboys opt to do is just fine with me. I've been a customer for a long time now, and expect to be for a long time coming. Boomzilla |
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Post by rvsixer on Mar 7, 2017 22:32:23 GMT -5
Emotiva digital preamp = XMC-1,it's fully ballance, have a great DAC, and DIRAC. No point of building an XSP digital preamp. Yea except for all that extra money you pay up front for unneeded video and extra channels (you know, the really expensive parts and codec fees that go obsolete with the next roll of the standards). The stereo only part of it has and will continue to stand the test of time imo, making an XSP digital preamp (i.e. stereo only XMC-1) very desired in my book. |
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 7, 2017 22:43:51 GMT -5
But the "proof of concept" as you call it, is just your own ears. That is only proof to you. I'd argue that one as well, monkumonku - I've yet to see any review of the PT-100 preamp that didn't say something along the lines of "hits way above its price," or "a real bargain." That's just what I'm saying - but using different words. As to what Schiit does (or doesn't) do - Apples to oranges. I don't see any relevance. Other respected companies including Parasound, Rotel, McIntosh, Classé, and others integrate their preamps or integrated amps with DACs to no apparent sonic detriment. Now that said, I'm not arguing with your conclusion at all - If Emotiva thinks that there's a market for a purely analog preamp, they're certainly in good company. And it obviously goes without saying that the XSP product has sold not just well, but VERY well for a long time. So whatever Mr. Laufman and homeboys opt to do is just fine with me. I've been a customer for a long time now, and expect to be for a long time coming. Boomzilla Your points are valid. But I just like disagreeing with you.  |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Mar 8, 2017 0:39:02 GMT -5
Boom, you bring up DLNA streaming. Have you had any luck in getting DLNA Servers to stream high-resolution DSD, etc. files to a DLNA Client without converting them? A friend of mine who's gone over-the-top with DSD, etc. files gave up on DLNA because he couldn't get any of the DLNA Servers that he tried to send the data in native High-Resolution Format. (Plus all of the User Interfaces he tried sucked.) This experience is what led him down the road to trying Roon (which he loves). ... I have a 4TB Synology DS216j NAS that has a folder called "Music" on it and it has all my hi rez FLAC (everything up to 192/24), APE, WAV & DSD(64, 128) music on it along with iTunes and WMA music and on both Marantz units, all my Oppo's I can see that folder and stream that file to it and let it do the decoding with absolutely no problem. FLAC stays FLAC, DSD stays DSD, etc. no transcoding or anything, the untouched music moves as data and is decoded at the other end by the DAC of the device streaming it. my NAS and everything I have that has an Ethernet jack is connected via my Cat6 wired gigabit network and I live in an apartment and have 2 bedrooms, living room, dinning room hardwired. I can also stream it untouched outside of my network to anywhere in the world with internet access. I've streamed stuff to my job from my NAS! so, yes, it can be done! by the way, my NAS & my 4TB drive were about $315.00 and took about 30 minutes to set up and I was rolling as soon as all my music was transferred from my old 1TB NAS to the new one (over the gigabit network). it's not as hard as you think. good luck! Huh. What DLNA Server are you using? My friend tried a whole bunch. Casey |
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Post by doc1963 on Mar 8, 2017 0:46:17 GMT -5
It's obvious that there's half that would like the XSP-1 to "evolve" into a hybrid solution. Then there's the other half, myself included, who would prefer to see it remain as it is. Let's face it, Emotiva makes one (yes ONE) solution for the audiophile who needs, or simply prefers, a true "reference quality" analog stereo preamp. Can't we leave it that way...  I do understand that most of you simply want a "digital" stereo equivalent to the XSP-1, but should it come at the expense of those who don't want what you do... IMHO, there's room for both. To the point, why not petition Emotiva to revisit the now missing XDA series to create your "ideal" digital preamp using that platform as a building block. Some here made the suggestion that the XMC-1 should satisfy what was being requested and were quickly rebutted by others stating they " didn't want to pay for features they would never use". Okay, I agree, but if " I" want a top of the line ANALOG stereo preamp, " I" don't want to pay for a DAC or the internal networking architecture required to accommodate digital streaming that " I" will never use. You see, it works both ways... In a nutshell, I don't worry because I know that Dan, Lonnie and Ray built the XSP-1 for a purpose, and through their own passions, and I seriously doubt that it will ever change. Apparently, given its longevity, it has sold (and continues to sell) very well. I know mine isn't going anywhere anytime soon...  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 8, 2017 6:39:08 GMT -5
In short, what you're proposing, doc1963, may be an XSR preamp. I'd buy one of those (provided it sounded as good as the PT-100). But for the time being, the PT-100 fills my needs and sounds most excellent as well. As for you, monkumonku - I enjoy arguing with you too! Worthy adversaries keep one honest. Thanks! Boom |
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Post by RichGuy on Mar 8, 2017 9:43:49 GMT -5
Boom you seem to like the PT-100, you should be requesting that the PT-100 add features that you like and stop trying to change the XSP-1 into something like the PT-100.
Me I have no interest in the PT-100 but I love the XSP-1, I don't want it to change to resemble a receiver or processor. The XSP-1 is pure analog and that is how it should remain. If you want digital there are other choices or you can request a new product that fits your desires for something new. The XSP-1 is designed for people like me who want a pure analog 2 channel preamp.
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 8, 2017 10:23:17 GMT -5
Hi RichGuy - I'm not actually trying to change anything. Emotiva listens to me less than you listen to your wife (figuratively speaking...). As I said before, what the Loungers want (or don't) has little to no influence on what features Emotiva products have (or don't have). Emotiva does market research on what will sell and what won't. Regardless of our wishes, if they don't expect a large sales volume, then the component won't be produced. Emotiva may well produce an XSP preamp in perpetuity in a completely analog format - or they may not. Regardless, my opinions (or yours) don't figure into those types of design considerations by Emotiva. So fear not that my hifalutin' opinions are going to carry any weight with Emotiva - they don't. The XSP-1 is a wonderful (all-analog) preamp. It's a bargain for its price and I'm glad that you enjoy yours. Cheers - Boomzilla |
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Post by novisnick on Mar 8, 2017 11:45:43 GMT -5
Hi RichGuy - I'm not actually trying to change anything. Emotiva listens to me less than you listen to your wife (figuratively speaking...). As I said before, what the Loungers want (or don't) has little to no influence on what features Emotiva products have (or don't have). Emotiva does market research on what will sell and what won't. Regardless of our wishes, if they don't expect a large sales volume, then the component won't be produced. Emotiva may well produce an XSP preamp in perpetuity in a completely analog format - or they may not. Regardless, my opinions (or yours) don't figure into those types of design considerations by Emotiva. So fear not that my hifalutin' opinions are going to carry any weight with Emotiva - they don't. The XSP-1 is a wonderful (all-analog) preamp. It's a bargain for its price and I'm glad that you enjoy yours. Cheers - Boomzilla I mostly agree with 99% of your opinion points, but one. We ARE , no matter how small, a market research tool for Emotiva. After all, we are as diverse as any other goup but with one exception, we do spend coin on gear! Some of us more often then we will confess too,,,,,he,,,,he,,,,he,,,,,, |
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