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Post by leonski on May 9, 2017 17:09:44 GMT -5
I'd add that IMO, I'd replace drivers in PAIRS. Fried a tweeter in the L speaker? replace it and the one in the R speaker as well.
I don't know if you can replace part of the Uni-Q or must replace it as a unit. It's not gonna be cheap, that's for sure.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 9, 2017 17:18:59 GMT -5
kiwiemoSorry, but...I have to ask...are you running the RCA outputs of a CD player directly into the amp? Or, are you running via some type of preamp with a volume control? Mark
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Post by leonski on May 9, 2017 19:07:23 GMT -5
One OTHER possibility for your poor KEF 900s.
The XP amp also has very high voltage rails. Maybe 75 volts? Higher?
It is POSSIBLE that you have fried one or more crossover Capacitors.
If KEF under-spec'd the capacitors anticipating that nobody in their right mind would exceed some power limit, you MAY have simply (?) Zapped a Cap.
I've seen 200 volt and higher crossover caps. But mainly, 100 tops, even for high power speakers like my Panels which effectively have NO upper power limit. Except discretion and the odd fuse.
I'd pop out the woofer and stick my NOSE in there. And scan around with a FLASHLIGHT looking for burned crossover parts.
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Post by 405x5 on May 9, 2017 20:59:55 GMT -5
Hi all. Been a while since I posted, it's taken 6months to final get my XPA-1's. But that's another story. So I plugged the amps in, all correctly, and turned on a tune, working well, so up the volume a touch, still good, short story short, end result I think they fried my not so old KEF R900's. (8 months old). Was the choice of amps to much for the Speakers?? Any help will be good Chur Kiwiemo So sorry you had that kind of trouble. I took a quick look at the Kef site to be a quick study on those speakers and their power requirements as well as their limits. It seems pretty clear that they were overdriven. That doesn't mean they can't be used with the XPA 1, but a high level of discretion is needed going forward. I'm also a big fan for having tons of reserve power, but I do a few things in conjunction with that. One is subwoofer integration to take some duty away from the mains and the other is running the mains on "small" even though they are large systems. I would point out that 600 watts is huge in your case for a system containing 3 drivers. Bill |
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Post by kiwiemo on May 9, 2017 21:39:53 GMT -5
kiwiemoSorry, but...I have to ask...are you running the RCA outputs of a CD player directly into the amp? Or, are you running via some type of preamp with a volume control? Mark So I'm running rca out of the cd in to an xsp-1 pre, and balanced out to the monos. |
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Post by kiwiemo on May 9, 2017 21:47:03 GMT -5
Hi all. Been a while since I posted, it's taken 6months to final get my XPA-1's. But that's another story. So I plugged the amps in, all correctly, and turned on a tune, working well, so up the volume a touch, still good, short story short, end result I think they fried my not so old KEF R900's. (8 months old). Was the choice of amps to much for the Speakers?? Any help will be good Chur Kiwiemo Are they still under warranty? Are both of them damaged? I see that they can handle 115 db...did you go past that volume? The volume I did push to -0 on the dial of the pre, I'm not to sure how much more I could have gone as it was loud, not call the cops loud but loud clear. Not making excuses here, just a little confused. |
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Post by lehighvalleyjeff on May 9, 2017 22:37:11 GMT -5
-0 on the XSP-1 is zero power attenuation or the same as plugging the amps into the cd directly with no user control of volume. That confirms for me that you simply over drove the limits of your speakers. The smoke was most likely a capacitor or two popping in the crossover.
Your KEF speakers were not designed to go that loud. Might be time to look at pro audio gear for concert levels. Otherwise I'm afraid you will continue to destroy home speakers.
I'm not judging you bc I like loud music too. But the stark reality is that home audio gear has limits
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on May 10, 2017 5:26:41 GMT -5
So I'm running rca out of the cd in to an xsp-1 pre, and balanced out to the monos. Lehighvalleyjeff is right...while normally this setup would be fine, at -0 on the xsp, you are essentially running the cd out into the amp and sending the full xpa power to your speakers. And, in addition to damaging your speakers, this could damage your ears. Mark |
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Post by bluemeanies on May 10, 2017 6:32:05 GMT -5
You blew it...how big is your room?
My dedicated room is 25'long 10.5 at its widest point with 6'.6" ceilings.
When I had the XPA1's half volume blew me out of the room.
The adage more is better is not true 100% of the times.
Since, I have replaced the XPA's with tube mono-blocks driving my B&W 803 diamonds in triode mode...that's 35watts per channel....my 803's and my 804S speakers never sounded better!
Pristine, sublime are how I would identify how they sound.
Also as Klinemj just pointed out....the damage to your hearing.
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Post by Pioneer on May 10, 2017 7:32:53 GMT -5
You may have just not been use to the clean sound you get from ample power. A lot of times people mistake the distortion that is created when the amp or receiver that is driving the speakers has reached its limits and the result is loud distortion (for lack of a better explanation). With a good supply of head room the same volume or decibels does not seem as loud to the ear as it would with the lower powered speakers at the same level. I am not an expert on this subject so I might not have explained this clearly but the use of a good sound level meter would help you understand what I am trying to say at the same level on the meter the same speakers with the extra unused power will not sound as loud. Also I would hope that KEF would have used some sort of protection in there product. Good luck.
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Post by 405x5 on May 10, 2017 7:58:03 GMT -5
"You blew it...how big is your room? My dedicated room is 25'long 10.5 at its widest point with 6'.6" ceilings." Unusually low ceiling for a room that large....finished basement perhaps? When I had the XPA1's half volume blew me out of the room. The adage more is better is not true 100% of the times. Since, I have replaced the XPA's with tube mono-blocks driving my B&W 803 diamonds in triode mode...that's 35watts per channel....my 803's and my 804S speakers never sounded better! Pristine, sublime are how I would identify how they sound. Also as Klinemj just pointed out....the damage to your hearing. Those are fantastic loudspeakers....were I to bail from my. Vintage systems they would be near the top of the list to revisit. The 801 was the first model I spent time with 1988. Impressive but not nearly as accurate as what you've got now. Bill |
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Post by bluemeanies on May 10, 2017 10:13:28 GMT -5
"You blew it...how big is your room? My dedicated room is 25'long 10.5 at its widest point with 6'.6" ceilings." Unusually low ceiling for a room that large....finished basement perhaps? When I had the XPA1's half volume blew me out of the room. The adage more is better is not true 100% of the times. Since, I have replaced the XPA's with tube mono-blocks driving my B&W 803 diamonds in triode mode...that's 35watts per channel....my 803's and my 804S speakers never sounded better! Pristine, sublime are how I would identify how they sound. Also as Klinemj just pointed out....the damage to your hearing. Those are fantastic loudspeakers....were I to bail from my. Vintage systems they would be near the top of the list to revisit. The 801 was the first model I spent time with 1988. Impressive but not nearly as accurate as what you've got now. Bill Thanks for the compliment Bill. I never heard the 801's but I been to forums where some people that own the 801 did some refurbishing on the inside such as better cross-overs. Apparently there are companies out there that do that kind of say...restoration. I love the diamonds and B&W. IMO they are the most natural sounding speaker. While I have not heard the 803d3 series I know someone who has and although to him they sounded superior to the 803 diamond his overall opinion was he did not feel they warranted an increase amounting to more than a third of the cost to the 803diamonds. Saying that I want to hear them myself. Saying THAT...money is relative. Opinions are subjective. I think I would be more inclined to hear the 804d3's considering my room size. On a little different note. Prior to the 803's I had the 804S and at that time I just purchased my tube mono-blocks....what a difference those tubes made in my music listening experience. In actuality I really did not need the 803's but because of the deal I was offered "they made me an offer I could not refuse" I jumped at it. Also B&W speakers have a great resale value. They are one of three top speaker companies out there that have that kind of market draw. I was able to sell my 804S speaker for $2400. I paid $4000 and had them for 9 years. They were in PRISTINE condition with the orginal boxes and manuals. I am not bringing this up to brag but rather I am bringing the issue up of resale b/c most people do not think that to be an issue. It may not be but it sure should be a consideration when buying anything involved with this hobby but especially speakers. They are the most changed out piece of people's systems. |
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Post by 405x5 on May 10, 2017 10:44:49 GMT -5
Those are fantastic loudspeakers....were I to bail from my. Vintage systems they would be near the top of the list to revisit. The 801 was the first model I spent time with 1988. Impressive but not nearly as accurate as what you've got now. Bill "..... speakers. They are the most changed out piece of people's systems." I think this is unlikely..... I don't know what the stats are, but I would THINK playback, particularly bluray players would be at the top of that list, followed by VIDEO monitors and then receivers and processors, amps. etc. Once you've ended up with speakers that really do it for you, they can stand there like monuments for many years, while the other components fall out of favor, for one reason or another. Bill |
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Post by garbulky on May 10, 2017 10:54:54 GMT -5
-0 on the XSP-1 is zero power attenuation or the same as plugging the amps into the cd directly with no user control of volume. That confirms for me that you simply over drove the limits of your speakers. The smoke was most likely a capacitor or two popping in the crossover. Your KEF speakers were not designed to go that loud. Might be time to look at pro audio gear for concert levels. Otherwise I'm afraid you will continue to destroy home speakers. I'm not judging you bc I like loud music too. But the stark reality is that home audio gear has limits 0 power is not the WORST thing. I've gotten it close to zero power before. |
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Post by 405x5 on May 10, 2017 11:16:07 GMT -5
-0 on the XSP-1 is zero power attenuation or the same as plugging the amps into the cd directly with no user control of volume. That confirms for me that you simply over drove the limits of your speakers. The smoke was most likely a capacitor or two popping in the crossover. Your KEF speakers were not designed to go that loud. Might be time to look at pro audio gear for concert levels. Otherwise I'm afraid you will continue to destroy home speakers. I'm not judging you bc I like loud music too. But the stark reality is that home audio gear has limits "0 power is not the WORST thing. I've gotten it close to zero power before. " Can't be "WORST" than what happened to this poor guy! Bill |
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Post by garbulky on May 10, 2017 11:46:10 GMT -5
405x5 Yeah I feel bad for him  Now on blu rays, it's not unheard of to go with 0 power on the XSP-1 especially if you are in a large room.
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Post by 405x5 on May 10, 2017 11:59:42 GMT -5
"I'd add that IMO, I'd replace drivers in PAIRS. Fried a tweeter in the L speaker? replace it and the one in the R speaker as well." A number of loudspeaker manufacturers recommend this, including the company that my systems came from. Bill |
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Post by leonski on May 10, 2017 12:09:10 GMT -5
As long as you don't drive 'em into distortion, you could hook up KiloWatt amps to these speakers.
Discretion is ALWAYS advised when using such hi-power amps.
KEF says '250 watts' maximum. Well, speakers don't have watts and the method of specification is NOT listed. So, It's a bogus number.
Sensitivity, OTOH, is a reasonably well understood measure so when KEF says 90db? I'll go with that as a fairly high value. Sterophile is able to duplicate this
measure with in +-1db for a high majority of speakers they test. I'd tend to trust this number.
Given that KEF Also claims 115db maximum speaker loudness, the measure of which is ALSO not specified, I'd be leery and keep my ears open for distortion.
Do not forget that speakers change in characteristics AS THEY WARM.
One additional issue. Average Power? Peak Power? RMS? Continuous? Speaker 'rated' (mythical value) at 250 watts (whose,again?) may easily take 2x that as peaks (+3db?) if such peaks
are less than 10% of the time.
But that's not the way it works. Typical Music may cruise along at 50 watts, which these speakers SHOULD withstand. But a 10db peak? That's 500 watts and well-within the amps envelop.
While the damage is done, noodling thru the possiblities may give clarity as to what actually DID happen.
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Post by monkumonku on May 10, 2017 12:09:20 GMT -5
"I'd add that IMO, I'd replace drivers in PAIRS. Fried a tweeter in the L speaker? replace it and the one in the R speaker as well." A number of loudspeaker manufacturers recommend this, including the company that my systems came from. Bill You mean like don't just replace one tire at a time if one blows out. |
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Post by leonski on May 10, 2017 12:20:10 GMT -5
Not QUITE a good analogy.
Speaker has obviously been stressed. The dead one for certain. Did the other side run within reasonable limits of the 'bad' side?
I'd want my speakers to match and would INSPECT the dead driver as it came out. I'd stick my NOSE into the other enclosure, too,
Any bad smell and I'd track it down and replace the 'stinky' parts.
Don't forget possible damage to the crossovers.
Tires OTOH have clear speed limits. V-rated? T-rated? and such. The real hazard is the BRUISE which you might get by finding a pothole
and not actually wrecking the tire. I don't know if you can wreck a tire WITHOUT taking the rim, too?
Maybe not THAT bad an analogy, after all.
I'm confident enough with home audio but would want to contact a tire expert. I don't like dissimilar tires on my car, either end, and DO always replace
in pairs. at a minimum!
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