|
|
Post by kiwiemo on May 13, 2017 0:57:30 GMT -5
Too much power, that's like too much money..... you can't have too much but you can use it unwisely. However too little power is usually more harmful. In this case it was not use wisely. One other thing I have to consider, was the product faulty to start with??? |
|
klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,101
|
Post by klinemj on May 13, 2017 6:04:29 GMT -5
Too much power, that's like too much money..... you can't have too much but you can use it unwisely. However too little power is usually more harmful. In this case it was not use wisely. One other thing I have to consider, was the product faulty to start with??? The speakers? Possibly,but I doubt it based on what you describe. I have only heard a powerful amp at full bore once...by accident. I have no doubt the speakers would have lasted at most a minute. Mark |
|
|
|
Post by gzubeck on May 13, 2017 17:09:09 GMT -5
In this case it was not use wisely. One other thing I have to consider, was the product faulty to start with??? The speakers? Possibly,but I doubt it based on what you describe. I have only heard a powerful amp at full bore once...by accident. I have no doubt the speakers would have lasted at most a minute. Mark I would try this angle especially if they're under warranty. Their rated for 250 watts and 115 db. All it takes is one defective component and your speakers are blown. Do they have an authorized repair facility in New Zealand? I'm sure they might authorize a repair technician somewhere to take a look and give an estimate. |
|
klinemj
Emo VIPs
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,101
|
Post by klinemj on May 13, 2017 17:53:28 GMT -5
The speakers? Possibly,but I doubt it based on what you describe. I have only heard a powerful amp at full bore once...by accident. I have no doubt the speakers would have lasted at most a minute. Mark I would try this angle especially if they're under warranty. Their rated for 250 watts and 115 db. All it takes is one defective component and your speakers are blown. Do they have an authorized repair facility in New Zealand? I'm sure they might authorize a repair technician somewhere to take a look and give an estimate. Worth trying, but... Mark |
|
|
|
Post by kiwiemo on May 16, 2017 19:12:13 GMT -5
The speakers? Possibly,but I doubt it based on what you describe. I have only heard a powerful amp at full bore once...by accident. I have no doubt the speakers would have lasted at most a minute. Mark I would try this angle especially if they're under warranty. Their rated for 250 watts and 115 db. All it takes is one defective component and your speakers are blown. Do they have an authorized repair facility in New Zealand? I'm sure they might authorize a repair technician somewhere to take a look and give an estimate. I'll look into this option also. Cheers |
|
|
|
Post by leonski on May 16, 2017 22:06:04 GMT -5
Trouble is that nobody knows but maybe the manufacturer exactly WHAT it means when they say 'rated for 250 watts'. Peak? Continuous? Some kind of time based duty cycle?
Does FTC or IEC have some protocol for such a rating?
Given even a reasonable 'crest factor' for normal music of maybe 10db, you could 'cruise' at 50 watts (in spec, yes?) and still have 500 watt peaks, which exceed spec. maybe.
For the 200th time, Speakers Do Not Have Watts.
|
|
|
|
Post by 405x5 on May 17, 2017 11:29:33 GMT -5
Trouble is that nobody knows but maybe the manufacturer exactly WHAT it means when they say 'rated for 250 watts'. Peak? Continuous? Some kind of time based duty cycle? Does FTC or IEC have some protocol for such a rating? Given even a reasonable 'crest factor' for normal music of maybe 10db, you could 'cruise' at 50 watts (in spec, yes?) and still have 500 watt peaks, which exceed spec. maybe. For the 200th time, Speakers Do Not Have Watts. The manufacturer of the loudspeakers I'm running gave the end user, a reasonable guideline for how much amplifier power was required to provide X amount of SPL level in a typical listening room with that chosen model. Made choosing the correct amplifier a pretty straightforward task. Bill |
|
|
|
Post by leonski on May 17, 2017 16:26:13 GMT -5
Trouble is that nobody knows but maybe the manufacturer exactly WHAT it means when they say 'rated for 250 watts'. Peak? Continuous? Some kind of time based duty cycle? Does FTC or IEC have some protocol for such a rating? Given even a reasonable 'crest factor' for normal music of maybe 10db, you could 'cruise' at 50 watts (in spec, yes?) and still have 500 watt peaks, which exceed spec. maybe. For the 200th time, Speakers Do Not Have Watts. The manufacturer of the loudspeakers I'm running gave the end user, a reasonable guideline for how much amplifier power was required to provide X amount of SPL level in a typical listening room with that chosen model. Made choosing the correct amplifier a pretty straightforward task. Bill sensitivity should provide that information. Depending on the speaker this information could range from good / useful to awful or unrelieable. Speakers with huge phase angles may not respond the way you want to a given amount of amp power, the amp not being especially capable into the most reactive loads. |
|
|
|
Post by kiwiemo on May 22, 2017 2:10:58 GMT -5
Just want to thank everyone for their input, I have been in and out of the country over the past few week so been a little hard to reply to all. Positive note the XPA-1s seem to be performing well👌
Till next til
Kiwiemo
|
|
|
|
Post by gzubeck on May 22, 2017 11:09:53 GMT -5
Just want to thank everyone for their input, I have been in and out of the country over the past few week so been a little hard to reply to all. Positive note the XPA-1s seem to be performing well👌 Till next til Kiwiemo With what speakers? Did you get new ones or repaired the old? |
|
|
|
Post by kiwiemo on May 22, 2017 17:55:14 GMT -5
Just want to thank everyone for their input, I have been in and out of the country over the past few week so been a little hard to reply to all. Positive note the XPA-1s seem to be performing well👌 Till next til Kiwiemo With what speakers? Did you get new ones or repaired the old? Have some old hacks which I have been using, I'm in the process of replacing the uniQ driver unit that's faulty. The KEF speakers still work, just a bit of a crackle from the midrange driver. Kiwiemo |
|
|
|
Post by leonski on May 22, 2017 18:56:12 GMT -5
Just the one that failed or BOTH? How much $$ for the part?
|
|
klinemj
Emo VIPs
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,101
|
Post by klinemj on May 22, 2017 21:03:53 GMT -5
and do NOT run it at 0 dB.
Mark
|
|
|
|
Post by kiwiemo on May 22, 2017 22:08:15 GMT -5
Just the one that failed or BOTH? How much $$ for the part? Just the one at this stage, $230 USD plus $70 for shipping, waiting on some more prices to come in from Australia Think the end game may be to sell them and look at something else, but I want some use out of them first. Kiwiemo |
|
|
|
Post by kiwiemo on May 22, 2017 22:09:17 GMT -5
and do NOT run it at 0 dB. Mark Arr not this time! |
|
|
|
Post by leonski on May 22, 2017 22:54:32 GMT -5
I hope you didn't sub-critically damage the OTHER side. When you install the new part, you'll have a difference between speakers.
IMO, when you have a failure of this type, replacing both drivers makes some sense.
Did you give the crossovers a good going over? Any burned resistors? Any bulging capacitors? Burned traces on the circuit board?
Any other sign of distress?
Use your NOSE as well as your EYES. Burned Electrons emit a very distinctive odor which means the part or assembly is Finished.
Your next speaker should be a Pro Monitor.
|
|
|
|
Post by kiwiemo on May 25, 2017 13:25:42 GMT -5
I hope you didn't sub-critically damage the OTHER side. When you install the new part, you'll have a difference between speakers. IMO, when you have a failure of this type, replacing both drivers makes some sense. Did you give the crossovers a good going over? Any burned resistors? Any bulging capacitors? Burned traces on the circuit board? Any other sign of distress? Use your NOSE as well as your EYES. Burned Electrons emit a very distinctive odor which means the part or assembly is Finished. Your next speaker should be a Pro Monitor. Would this happen, with independent L n R channels? I believe the speakers matched, how true this is I don't know, so replacing one over two there is no match there anymore. I haven't got to the pulling apart part of the process as yet. Kiwiemo |
|
|
|
Post by leonski on May 25, 2017 13:43:51 GMT -5
Here's the view:
I can't imagine running s pair of speakers hard enough to audibly damage ONE of 'em without really stressing the OTHER, too.
That's why I advocate for changing the dead driver and its mate in the other speaker.
It is also possible that some crossover damage occurred. That must be inspected for, since at least some of such damage will be visible in the form of Cooked Resistors? Bulging Capacitors and maybe some burned traces on a circuit board.
Don't forget that while people talk about speaker 'efficiency', they don't know what they are talking about. Efficiency should be expressed in PERCENT. And for speakers, it is maybe 1% or so. This means when you are feeding your speaker 300 watt peaks, that most of that energy is going up as HEAT. Voice Coils get pretty warm under those conditions.
Worst case when buying a pair of new drivers is that you have a good, but used, spare, if the problem recurs.
|
|
|
|
Post by simpleman68 on May 25, 2017 13:53:59 GMT -5
With what speakers? Did you get new ones or repaired the old? Have some old hacks which I have been using, I'm in the process of replacing the uniQ driver unit that's faulty. The KEF speakers still work, just a bit of a crackle from the midrange driver. Kiwiemo I love having backup equipment that I can break out when I need to repair/upgrade something in the chain.  I've broken out my old Paradigm Titans from time to time and am still impressed for what they do for their size. Bought them new in the mid 90s. Scott |
|
|
|
Post by kiwiemo on May 27, 2017 16:09:18 GMT -5
Here's the view: I can't imagine running s pair of speakers hard enough to audibly damage ONE of 'em without really stressing the OTHER, too. That's why I advocate for changing the dead driver and its mate in the other speaker. It is also possible that some crossover damage occurred. That must be inspected for, since at least some of such damage will be visible in the form of Cooked Resistors? Bulging Capacitors and maybe some burned traces on a circuit board. Don't forget that while people talk about speaker 'efficiency', they don't know what they are talking about. Efficiency should be expressed in PERCENT. And for speakers, it is maybe 1% or so. This means when you are feeding your speaker 300 watt peaks, that most of that energy is going up as HEAT. Voice Coils get pretty warm under those conditions. Worst case when buying a pair of new drivers is that you have a good, but used, spare, if the problem recurs. I agree with the both being replaced, if there is cross over damage, then I'm most likely having to swap out both of them, there is potential damage to one or more woffers too, so soon I'm looking at pretty much new but bitsey speakers, and at a cost starting to run high. This has been a steep and a bit embarrassing learning curve. I still hover round the 'not as brand new as they should be' theory. Kiwiemo |
|
