Marantz AV7703 - A competitive gap?

[redcoat23]

Having just read the Home Theater Review for the new Marantz AV7703. I have to wonder if Emotiva has a good competitor in their lineup.
Knee-jerk says the XMC-1 is a close match, but to get the same functionality (minus Dirac) as the Marantz you'd need to spend $2999.00. That's an $800.00 difference. Is Dirac really worth that extra $800?

I get the relentless pace that the large corporations are able to sustain - producing yearly rev's for multiple product lines. I understand it's not reasonable to ask Emotiva to match that. Resources are not the same, however I feel that where I once I saw Emotiva as the value, yet high quality competition to the more mainstream channels. Now I just see it as a more boutique brand with a slightly higher cost than the Japanese brands.

Is there a tier worth putting into the lineup that tops out at $2k that could match on features but not necessarily have Dirac?  Or maybe it could?  Smarter minds can answer...

Thoughts?

[fattykidd]

To keep it super simple. Dirac is definitely worth the premium.

[pknaz]

I've tried Marantz recently (about a year ago or so), and I didn't like it. Audyssey MultiEQ was terrible, in my opinion.

[kybourbon]

There is a thread over at AVS where all the Marantz preamps were tested (blindly I believe) by a few of the users and the less expensive ones tested just as well as the more expensive ones. The take home was to buy the cheapest one you needed.

If I have time I will try to dig up that thread as it was interesting.

[KeithL]

Of course I'm biased, but I have to point out that, along with features, sound quality is sort of important.

Obviously somebody like Marantz has more resources to devote to including every bell and whistle you can think of.
And also to include all the latest apps - and, more importantly, since they change frequently, to keep them up to date.
Here at Emotiva, we prefer to concentrate on sound quality, and to leave the cool apps to something like a Roku or equivalent media device.

Those little black boxes do lots of stuff even we couldn't think of, and do it pretty well because that's what they're dedicated to.
The folks who sell them get to concentrate all their effort on including the latest bells and whistles, and getting them to work right.
(And they're cheap enough that you don't feel too bad replacing them in a few years when they inevitable become obsolete.)

However, out of all the people I've spoken to who've replaced a major brand receiver with our XMC-1..... even some really expensive ones.....
The vast majority of them said that the Emotiva XMC-1 sounded better - and many were actually surprised that the difference was as noticeable as it was.
Obviously, it all depends on your priorities.

Aug 29, 2017 22:02:54 GMT -5 redcoat23 said:

Having just read the Home Theater Review for the new Marantz AV7703. I have to wonder if Emotiva has a good competitor in their lineup.
Knee-jerk says the XMC-1 is a close match, but to get the same functionality (minus Dirac) as the Marantz you'd need to spend $2999.00. That's an $800.00 difference. Is Dirac really worth that extra $800?

I get the relentless pace that the large corporations are able to sustain - producing yearly rev's for multiple product lines. I understand it's not reasonable to ask Emotiva to match that. Resources are not the same, however I feel that where I once I saw Emotiva as the value, yet high quality competition to the more mainstream channels. Now I just see it as a more boutique brand with a slightly higher cost than the Japanese brands.

Is there a tier worth putting into the lineup that tops out at $2k that could match on features but not necessarily have Dirac?  Or maybe it could?  Smarter minds can answer...

Thoughts?

[Loop 7]

Just ponder how many features included in the current pr-pros that are used by only a sliver of owners.

[405x5]

The XMC build quality is beyond anything out there from Marantz.
I bought 2 units from them (actually ONE....my first and last)
Problematical and unserviceable for the end user....there was nothing left for me to do but to make a date with Monday's trash pickup.
Emotiva has my back for the serviceable period of whatever comes from there....I'm too old to have anything else 🙏

Bill

[pknaz]

I'll Echo Keith, from a customer perspective. The difference in sound quality between my Marantz and my XMC-1, even without any room correction, was staggering. In a good way.

[redcoat23]

Aug 30, 2017 8:31:14 GMT -5 KeithL said:

Of course I'm biased, but I have to point out that, along with features, sound quality is sort of important.

Obviously somebody like Marantz has more resources to devote to including every bell and whistle you can think of.
And also to include all the latest apps - and, more importantly, since they change frequently, to keep them up to date.
Here at Emotiva, we prefer to concentrate on sound quality, and to leave the cool apps to something like a Roku or equivalent media device.

Those little black boxes do lots of stuff even we couldn't think of, and do it pretty well because that's what they're dedicated to.
The folks who sell them get to concentrate all their effort on including the latest bells and whistles, and getting them to work right.
(And they're cheap enough that you don't feel too bad replacing them in a few years when they inevitable become obsolete.)

However, out of all the people I've spoken to who've replaced a major brand receiver with our XMC-1..... even some really expensive ones.....
The vast majority of them said that the Emotiva XMC-1 sounded better - and many were actually surprised that the difference was as noticeable as it was.
Obviously, it all depends on your priorities.

Hi Keith, thanks for the reply. My post was less about comparing the sound quality of the Marantz to that of the XMC-1. I've no doubt that a great deal of time and effort is spent on achieving a sound quality that is beyond the rest of the ~$3k competition. Similarly I know you don't have their resources and therefore would not expect a yearly revision.

However I'd point out that you have the BasX MC-700 at a fantastic price point of $599.00, really unmatched in the market place. Then your next offering is all the way to $3k for the fully featured XMC-1 though fantastic in scope and capability is also a bridge too far for a lot of consumers. That seems to me like a huge gap. I stand by my original point that it feels there should be a processor that tops out at $2k perhaps with a reduced feature set available at $1.5k.

I'm sure your marketing department has done the segmentation and determined what sort uptake would be expected at this price point, but from this author's humble perspective that seems like a great spot when most of the processors for competitors (AV7703 not withstanding) don't go for this bracket and tend to be $2.5k or higher.

As always this is just a personal perspective and YMMV.

[fattykidd]

Aug 30, 2017 22:32:19 GMT -5 redcoat23 said:

Aug 30, 2017 8:31:14 GMT -5 KeithL said:

Of course I'm biased, but I have to point out that, along with features, sound quality is sort of important.

Obviously somebody like Marantz has more resources to devote to including every bell and whistle you can think of.
And also to include all the latest apps - and, more importantly, since they change frequently, to keep them up to date.
Here at Emotiva, we prefer to concentrate on sound quality, and to leave the cool apps to something like a Roku or equivalent media device.

Those little black boxes do lots of stuff even we couldn't think of, and do it pretty well because that's what they're dedicated to.
The folks who sell them get to concentrate all their effort on including the latest bells and whistles, and getting them to work right.
(And they're cheap enough that you don't feel too bad replacing them in a few years when they inevitable become obsolete.)

However, out of all the people I've spoken to who've replaced a major brand receiver with our XMC-1..... even some really expensive ones.....
The vast majority of them said that the Emotiva XMC-1 sounded better - and many were actually surprised that the difference was as noticeable as it was.
Obviously, it all depends on your priorities.

Hi Keith, thanks for the reply. My post was less about comparing the sound quality of the Marantz to that of the XMC-1. I've no doubt that a great deal of time and effort is spent on achieving a sound quality that is beyond the rest of the ~$3k competition. Similarly I know you don't have their resources and therefore would not expect a yearly revision.

However I'd point out that you have the BasX MC-700 at a fantastic price point of $599.00, really unmatched in the market place. Then your next offering is all the way to $3k for the fully featured XMC-1 though fantastic in scope and capability is also a bridge too far for a lot of consumers. That seems to me like a huge gap. I stand by my original point that it feels there should be a processor that tops out at $2k perhaps with a reduced feature set available at $1.5k.

I'm sure your marketing department has done the segmentation and determined what sort uptake would be expected at this price point, but from this author's humble perspective that seems like a great spot when most of the processors for competitors (AV7703 not withstanding) don't go for this bracket and tend to be $2.5k or higher.

As always this is just a personal perspective and YMMV.

The "Emersa" processor was supposed to fill the gap between he mc700 and the xmc. But as it goes emo changed their minds.
I'm one of the few here that doesn't believe the xmc was so much better than my marantz. Dirac made the biggest difference, audyssey neutered my sound. But marantz + minidsp ddrc and I have a solution to what I missed from either processor on its own.

[redcoat23]

Aug 30, 2017 23:29:25 GMT -5 fattykidd said:

The "Emersa" processor was supposed to fill the gap between he mc700 and the xmc. But as it goes emo changed their minds.

Oh that's right I remember that. Yes it's shame that never came to fruition. The MC-700 doesn't quite tick all the boxes for me, and the XMC-1 does, but at a significant price point... I'm looking at something not for my main room but for a 2nd system. This would be to replace the Onkyo in my Lounge (see sig.)

Aug 30, 2017 23:29:25 GMT -5 fattykidd said:

I'm one of the few here that doesn't believe the xmc was so much better than my marantz. Dirac made the biggest difference, audyssey neutered my sound. But marantz + minidsp ddrc and I have a solution to what I missed from either processor on its own.

Yes I'd be willing to go that route too, gives you an easy and portable option to add Dirac at a later date, and easily transferable to anything new down the road.

[cwt]

Aug 31, 2017 0:33:57 GMT -5 redcoat23 said:

Oh that's right I remember that. Yes it's shame that never came to fruition. The MC-700 doesn't quite tick all the boxes for me, and the XMC-1 does, but at a significant price point... I'm looking at something not for my main room but for a 2nd system. This would be to replace the Onkyo in my Lounge (see sig.)

Never say never with Emo they have been flat chat with the RMC1 and the companion XMC1 upgrade and they have said the XMC1 was the basis for a line of pre pros ; the RMC1 and the XMC2 are close cousins

emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/890682

[creimes]

In my room to my ears my Sherbourn PT-7020C4 sounds better than my AV7702 MKI, I sold a 7020C4 to try the Marantz and I felt the SQ lacking compared to even my Sherbourn PT7020 processor, so I sold it and went back to a 7020 and had money in the bank

Not sure why but the Marantz sounded more congested and dull, the one thing I do miss is having the ability to control my zone 2 volume via my smart phone but for me SQ is priority over features, like mentioned I have other devices for that. I would love to be able to grab another XMC-1 for my system but I am too poor for such a thing

Chad

[jonas79]

Aug 31, 2017 0:33:57 GMT -5 redcoat23 said:

Aug 30, 2017 23:29:25 GMT -5 fattykidd said:

The "Emersa" processor was supposed to fill the gap between he mc700 and the xmc. But as it goes emo changed their minds.

Oh that's right I remember that. Yes it's shame that never came to fruition. The MC-700 doesn't quite tick all the boxes for me, and the XMC-1 does, but at a significant price point... I'm looking at something not for my main room but for a 2nd system. This would be to replace the Onkyo in my Lounge (see sig.)

Aug 30, 2017 23:29:25 GMT -5 fattykidd said:

I'm one of the few here that doesn't believe the xmc was so much better than my marantz. Dirac made the biggest difference, audyssey neutered my sound. But marantz + minidsp ddrc and I have a solution to what I missed from either processor on its own.

Yes I'd be willing to go that route too, gives you an easy and portable option to add Dirac at a later date, and easily transferable to anything new down the road.

On latest Podcast they sayed Emersa Processor will come Summer/Fall 2018.

1499 Usd i think for Atmos upgrade.

So next year this time we can see if its released

[sevenfeet]

I own the Marantz 7703...I've had it for about a year now. The 7703 is an appreciable upgrade for me compared to what I had before which was a Denon 3805 receiver which was 15 years old. Back then was my first major investment in home theater but buying a house and raising a family put doing upgrades on the back burner until last year. And that point, the Denon was replaced with the 7703, the Mitsubishi RPTV was replaced with a 2016 65" LG OLED set, and I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on an Oppo 205.

But I like Emotiva, and live in Nashville. Why did I get the 7703 over the XMC-1? Well I was also at this year's Emofest. During the event, Big Dan talked about their new move to completely develop their own technology implementations in house and no longer depend on third parties for things like Dolby, DTS and other continuously evolving standards. And this has always been the problem with Emotiva and other small players. They make great sounding stuff. But the receiver/pre-pro business is all about keeping up with the Joneses in terms of evolving standards. And going back years Emotiva had always been months or worse behind audio, video or HDMI standard. So this announcement was the big step forward in knowing that Emotive going forward may be able to keep up with the big players of D&M, Onkyo, Sony and the like. And since Big Dan was there, I made sure I told him my thoughts.

The 7703 was cheaper too (and it was a stretch purchase for me, but that's a whole 'other discussion). I will be getting a 5 channel XPA Get 3 at some point in the next 12 months since I don't have decent amplification for the 7703 and I was never not going to put an Emo box in that spot. Currently, I'm still using the legacy Denon 3805's amps to power my theater in the meantime. And as we all known, good clean powerful amplification can solve a lot of problems.

[Jim]

Good luck upgrading the 7703...

:-)

[sevenfeet]

Sept 4, 2017 11:39:40 GMT -5 Jim said:

Good luck upgrading the 7703...

:-)

LOL. Yes, upgrades not allowed with most of the Big Boys equipment. But that's ok for right now. Next stop is a suitable XPA amp for this. Dan will get my money one way or another.

[Gary Cook]

I've said in many posts exactly the same thing, the price gap between the UMC-1/UMC-200/MC-700 and the XMC-1 is far too big, even in the US. In Australia it's almost twice as big a step in outright $ terms. It's a gaping chasm in the range that something like the XMC-1L would have filled For some people that's for their main system for others it could be for their second (or third) system.

As for upgrades, for the cost of the XMC-1 updates the US based guys could buy a brand new MC-700, I could almost buy 2 x MC-700's because I have a 25% UFL discount plus I'd have to pay the freight on an XMC-1 from Australia and back to get the updates done. Update ability is only worthwhile when it's economical and updating the XMC-1 simply fails that test, whilst not at all suggesting that Emotiva are charging more than their cost. I've had a UMC-1, a UMC-200 and there's an MC-700 on the horizon, so I've had 3 new processors (all of which sound pretty damn good to me) and I still haven't spent as much as what a basic (not upgraded) XMC-1 would have cost. Frankly the upgrade ability concept might be worth a lot but the reality is very different.

There's a undeniably huge gap in the range, right now, dropping/delaying/postponing the appropriate products and concentrating on the RMC-1 does nothing to alleviate that.

Cheers
Gary

[Gary Cook]

Sept 4, 2017 10:16:45 GMT -5 jonas79 said:

On latest Podcast they sayed Emersa Processor will come Summer/Fall 2018.
1499 Usd i think for Atmos upgrade.
So next year this time we can see if its released

The Emersa product range was announced in late 2015 / early 2016 (http://www.audioholics.com/amplifier-reviews/emotiva-emersa-audio-products) so that's some 20 months ago. With another year to go? By then Atmos will be out of date and there will be Stratos (well .................. stratosphere is higher then atmosphere), DTS-X will be DTS-Z and we'll be up to HDMI 6.n and/or HDCP 52.

Plus of course, the big problem, the Emersa range is not in the Emotiva X/BasX format, it would look totally out of place in my rack

Cheers
Gary

[nate]

Guys the 7703 is now $1499. That's a fairly impressive feature set for the price and he 7703 is a major upgrade to prior Marantz pre-pros save for the 8xxx. So it's no longer a fair comparison in price points for the XMC which is going the other direction in price.

I think a good question is whether you'd rather have a MC-700 & xsp-1 for $1800 OR a Marantz AV7703 for $1500?? The 2 channel sonics are clearly better with the Emotiva pair, but for HT probably the Marantz and for apps and atmos the Marantz. Oh and we're talking about MultEQ XT32 vs EMOQ, not Dirac

I agree with he OP that there's currently a huge hole for Emo AV pre-pro or I wouldn't be considering the 7703 route.

Thoughts?