mikee
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 3 
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Post by mikee on Sept 14, 2017 20:22:29 GMT -5
Hey Fella's, I figure this is probably the place to find out why I should and why I need an Amp for my HT.
I've been dabbling in HT for last few years, its awesome having a HT and bummer having to wait for movies to come out on disc lol.
I have nothing to compare my HT too as far as hearing and seeing other's components and what they do for the HT experience, no one
in my circle is into HT. So.....guess i'm still a newbie and the dumb questions come up, yea I know most were a newbie at some point.
I upgraded my avr to an Aventage RX-A1040 last year, guess its a 100wpc, I'm running a 7,1 set up, use for 90% movies.
I've had my eye on the XPA-7 GEN3 for a while thinking "Yea this'll be a sweet upgrade" So would it??
I really don't know what to expect just that my system would be louder right? Duh LOL
I know sometimes I really gotta turn it up to get the volume where I want it but then some distortion comes in.
I've also thought about just going with the XPA-5, I mean, Do or Should the rear channels be amplified also? To me its seems like
Yes cuz it might sound out of balance or something.
Well I apprecitate you guy's reading this, guess I'm just looking for my arm to be twisted to do it, Thanks again
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Post by vneal on Sept 14, 2017 20:25:50 GMT -5
If you do 90% video & are happy with the sound stay with your receiver. Separates are not for everyone
Not knowing the efficiency of your speakers the new speaker may not even be LOUDER. I truely think video is not as demanding as audio. You will get many who disagree here
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Post by novisnick on Sept 14, 2017 20:40:25 GMT -5
My addiction love of HT started so many years ago and it hasn't let up yet. I too went for Yamaha AVR. My first addition of an amp was a five channel 200 watts per channel (wpc). I haven't looked back yet. The Yamaha will be able to easily drive 2 or 4 surround speakers as they don't require as much power as the front left, right and center channels. In HT the center channel is extremely important for the dialogue.
Welcome to the forum, so nice to have another amongst us.
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator 
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,858
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Post by LCSeminole on Sept 14, 2017 20:47:02 GMT -5
Well you answered your own question when you stated you get distortion at higher volume levels with your receiver, and you know that under powering speakers at higher volumes is a good way to blow a speaker. If you're going to be playing movies at reference levels, then a power amplifier with plenty of headroom would take care of the distortion issue. It would help to know what speakers you have.
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 14, 2017 20:59:22 GMT -5
Well you answered your own question when you stated you get distortion at higher volume levels with your receiver, and you know that under powering speakers at higher volumes is a good way to blow a speaker. If you're going to be playing movies at reference levels, then a power amplifier with plenty of headroom would take care of the distortion issue. It would help to know what speakers you have. What he said! Bill |
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Post by alucard on Sept 14, 2017 22:06:25 GMT -5
Are all of the 7.0 speakers set to small within the AVR controls? If so what is the crossover set to?
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Post by leonski on Sept 14, 2017 22:19:43 GMT -5
A couple of thoughts: First? Go thru the room and optimize it. Try to google 'room setup' and go thru the steps. An improved room will make what you Now Have sound so much better and for little to no outlay. Good return on investment, no? Second? What do you NOT like about your current system? Would 'more power' (Scotty says!) be the answer? On to other stuff: Room for the New Amp? You'll need an open, ventilated space for it. Don't COOK your nice new amp. You mention distortion. Is it the amp or speakers? Some speakers simply will not play 'that loud'. You DO apparently want some additional loudness. www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/speaker-setup/index.htmlI'm not an HT guy, but you will find out about running speakers as 'large' or 'small' and measures like impedance and sensitivity. And you'll find that amplifier watts are NOT all created equal in the ability to drive speakers. For example? A speaker may be more 'sensitive' than another. It plays louder for a given amount of power than another. 3db is a meaningful difference here. But what about Power Handling? Manufacturers love to rate speakers in 'watts' but don't specifiy how they arrive at these numbers. I know of 2 or 3 ways to 'rate' this, at least one of 'em IMO, will get you in trouble. I'd say to forget the numbers and LISTEN. AUDITION what you intend to buy. Don't listen to reviews. And while I might LOVE B&W 803 Diamond for 10Grand a pair, I doubt that does you much good. What kind of buy-in do you have from the WIFE? Will she let you put stuff where it sounds best or where it 'fits' with the Decor? If it goes where it fits? Give up now and cut your losses. You'll never be happy with even good gear in a sub-optimal room and setup. And the first time an Electrician shows up to drop a couple 20 amp lines? You're evicted! I see Paradigm speakers listed. They are fairly high sensitivity and list power handling of 230 watts with a higher (350 watts) max Amplifier. This is sort of important in this case, since you may cruise along at 2 watts per speaker and have 200 watt peaks. (20 db peaks) This would be screaming loud. Maybe 95 db continuous and 115 db peaks. I don't know the Pardigm will go 120db. Have fun: |
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Post by garbulky on Sept 14, 2017 22:25:38 GMT -5
An amp isn't just about playig loud. It's about playing more clearly and having a fuller sound at regular volumes. I live in a town house which shares walls. My volume levels are usually in the mid or upper 60 dbs. The amp I use - after upgrading and trying a whole bunch of differet amps is an amp that pushes a 1000 watts per chanel. BUT....I don't even use a fraction of it! I bought it for the quality at the soft volumes I'm playing it at.
I've found with my amp there is a "3 dimensional" effect to movie sounds even though it's just 2 speakers - especially when playing blu ray audio.
Now granted I'm mainly a music listener but I do enjoy movies -albeit in two channel mode. I think a multichanel amp is a good idea. However if posible I would looks for a used XPA-7 GEN 2 amp. You can put a WTB (want to buy) ad in the emporium section here. The gen 2 amp is imo a better buy over the ge 3 though others may disagree. The warranty DOES transfer. The gen 2 was made with a huge solidly built iron torroid which weighs a ton! The gen 3 uses a switching power supply the size of a few coins though granted it produces a massive amount of output too.
HOWEVER: look the real difference in systems is speakers, speaker setup, and room treatments imo. So if your speakers aren't carefully setup and your room has acoustic problems (which if you haven't treated it, you may not realize it has), an amp is the least of your worries and you may not hear a difference
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Post by creimes on Sept 14, 2017 23:12:14 GMT -5
Emotiva has a 30 day trial within the US, the only one that can tell you what you will hear/prefer is you.
Chad
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Post by mshump on Sept 15, 2017 8:43:22 GMT -5
I would suggest going with a 3 channel amp to begin with. Your main speakers F/L/C are the main ones that will benefit from an amp. After you install the amp then you can run your room correction software again and level match all the speakers. The amp will give you a more robust, fuller sound for the channels. You will have more headroom for the tough passages, explosions etc. Taking that load off the receiver should help with the distortion. The 4 other channels will be ok running off the receiver they are effect channels and don't require nearly as much power as the 3 front. You can later add a couple more amps for the those channels. I ran an Onkyo receiver for 5.1 and added the amp for the 3 front to begin with then added another amp later for the surrounds.
Good luck and welcome to the lounge !!
Mark
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 15, 2017 8:53:08 GMT -5
It's worth noting that along with separate HT amplifiers, the POWER of the amplified sub./subs should be proportional to those amps. (Preferably greater)
If you have a subwoofer with lots of headroom, it takes a load off the main amp.
You can then set your configuration to "small" and achieve a higher db. Output.
Bill
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Post by slk55amg on Sept 15, 2017 14:28:03 GMT -5
and you really can not drive 4ohm speakers with even the most high end receivers. I have a Sony ES5300 and I never even tried to use it with my polk lsi 15,s and lsic center. Got an XPA5 gen 1, and I than was configured properly.
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mikee
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 3
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Post by mikee on Sept 15, 2017 17:56:03 GMT -5
WOW! You guys Rock, I really didn't expect such informative responses, thank you
I'll try to cover the questions in your responses so you'll have more information,
Ok first, with my avr it has the "Front Highs" speaker configuration so that's how I have it set up now, I built stands so the spkrs sit up high about a foot from corners and ceiling and angled down pointed at preferred seating, I kinda like it but I've had it without the front highs also.
So here's what my speakers are (try not to laugh) all are 8ohm.
front mains B&W DM580's
front highs B&W DM220's
rear surrnd B&W V202's
center ch NHT supercenter 150w max.
SUB Dayton dual 10" 1000w plate amp
580's rated at 150w max. sens-91db
220's 100w max. sens-90db
I'm using the 220's for front highs 580's of course are where the should be, and no Wife so I can do what I want, small livngroom 13'x18', 2 acoustic panels on 1 wall, I've read a lot on 'room treatment' just haven't completed it.
And yes I found out very fast how crucial the Center ch is for HT, my plan is to get a DIY kit, the one I like is a beast w/8" woofers, maybe to big Huh?
I have all spkrs set to "small" XO is at 80 or 90. seems to boomey set on 'LRG'
What I DON'T LIKE about my current system is IMO isn't loud enough, for example the movie 'Oblivion' the chase towards the end, I just don't 'feel it' I turn it way up and still doesn't do anything for me, could be the soundtrack, IDK, oh, its not bluray either, I need to get that movie on bluray or 4k anyways.
FWIW, this hobby for me comes and goes, I enjoy my HT, now I have some $ for an upgrade, my way of thinking is an Amp but that's just me, what do I know lol. I know my speakers leave much to be desired so upgrade speakers???
mike
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Post by creimes on Sept 15, 2017 18:18:20 GMT -5
For me when I went with my first amp purchase of two UPA-1's I was sold, sounded better at all volume levels, that was using a Yamaha RXV-1065 receiver, fast forward I now have a dedicated processor and amplifier with Chane A5rx-c towers for my 3 fronts and two 18" subs and I have what you are wanting in terms of feeling it lol, my favorite scene in Oblivion is the canyon chase when he gets chased by the three droids, I crank it up soooo loud and it's just awesome  Chad |
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Post by ottaone on Sept 16, 2017 0:02:29 GMT -5
First, welcome to the forum.
I'm of the school of thought that says start with the speakers and build your way back to the source. Hence, I would recommend upgrading the LCR speakers. Then add the amp. For about $2,200, you can try new Airmotiv T2, C2 and A-5175 amps or spend a bit more and get the XPA-5, like you are considering, or even just a XPA-3. You'd be set for both quantity and quality of the sound of your movies.
Good luck and let us know what you end up doing.
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Post by leonski on Sept 16, 2017 0:46:19 GMT -5
In fairness to the philosopy of setting up a system?
Source First.
Everything depends on how it all starts down the chain.
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Post by musicfan on Sept 16, 2017 6:04:17 GMT -5
In fairness to the philosopy of setting up a system? Source First. Everything depends on how it all starts down the chain. Is this a troll? #1 thing that will change the sound of your system is your speakers. Start there |
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Post by kybourbon on Sept 16, 2017 6:29:06 GMT -5
In fairness to the philosopy of setting up a system? Source First. Everything depends on how it all starts down the chain. Is this a troll? #1 thing that will change the sound of your system is your speakers. Start there Garbage in. Garbage out. |
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Post by Jim on Sept 16, 2017 6:52:31 GMT -5
Is this a troll? #1 thing that will change the sound of your system is your speakers. Start there Garbage in. Garbage out. I would argue that - The difference between a high end source and low end source isn't necessary night and day. To some degree, chips are chips. The difference between a low end or poor speaker and a half way decent speaker can be astoundingly different. You'll absolutely hear a a good speaker. You might hear an improvement from a better source. |
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Post by musicfan on Sept 16, 2017 7:29:54 GMT -5
Is this a troll? #1 thing that will change the sound of your system is your speakers. Start there Garbage in. Garbage out. we arent talking about computer programming here...this is pretty bad advice for sound |
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