XPA Gen 3 review in Stereophile.

[emotifan]

I did a search and didn't find anything so I hope I'm not repeating a link post. I came across this yesterday and thought y'all would be interested.

www.stereophile.com/content/emotiva-xpa-gen3-two-channel-power-amplifier

[Casey Leedom]

Check out this earlier thread ...

Casey

[klinemj]

emotifan

And rather than read that thread Casey posted from the beginning - start at the end and note Geebo's post. The test was a pre-production version. Emotiva said, at Emofest, results would be known to be different with the production version.

Mark

[emotifan]

My take away from the review was actually positive. Being very familiar with all things Magnepan, the fact that the .7s performed well with the gen 3 XPA impresses me. I'm running Monitor Audio Silver 2s through an XPA2 Gen 2 right now because I had tried the smaller MMGs with a USP-1 / Adcom GFA 5500 combo and found them too harsh in my small listening room so I changed to the MA Silver 2s before I upgraded both pre-amp and amp. My dealer had let me try the earlier 1.6s (correction; MG12s) with the previous setup which sounded great but I stupidly didn't want to buy speakers at the end of their model run. I'd like to try the .7s with my current XPA2 gen 2 / XSP-1 set up. The MA Silver 2s are actually pretty awesome sounding though so I'm in no hurry.

[leonski]

Nov 29, 2017 12:32:32 GMT -5 emotifan said:

My take away from the review was actually positive. Being very familiar with all things Magnepan, the fact that the .7s performed well with the gen 3 XPA impresses me. I'm running Monitor Audio Silver 2s through an XPA2 Gen 2 right now because I had tried the smaller MMGs with a USP-1 / Adcom GFA 5500 combo and found them too harsh in my small listening room so I changed to the MA Silver 2s before I upgraded both pre-amp and amp. My dealer had let me try the earlier 1.6s with the previous setup which sounded great but I stupidly didn't want to buy speakers at the end of their model run. I'd like to try the .7s with my current XPA2 gen 2 / XSP-1 set up. The MA Silver 2s are actually pretty awesome sounding though so I'm in no hurry.

Have you tried the 1.7s?    That's the closest to the 1.6 now in production.     

What do you mean by 'too harsh'?     Many Magnepan models come with a tweeter attenuation resistor for those who find the high end 'too hot'.   And several setup options exist.    
Believe me, I've tried nearly ALL possible setups using panels, including the 'rooze'.    You'll have to google that one!   or look @ Audio Asylum, maybe.

Other 'used' choices exist, too, and might actually depend on the size of the room.    If I had the space?   I'd love some 3.5s or 3.6s to get at that wonderful Ribbon Tweeter.
A buddy of mine has 20s.   Not 20.1 or the new 20.7, but the older 20s.    And WOW, what a speaker.   Last time I tuned in he was using big EMOs for the bass.

[Bonzo]

Nov 28, 2017 17:05:25 GMT -5 klinemj said:

emotifan

And rather than read that thread Casey posted from the beginning - start at the end and note Geebo's post. The test was a pre-production version. Emotiva said, at Emofest, results would be known to be different with the production version.

Mark

Yet the question I have is where is that official information? These "new" amps have been out in true production form for quite some time now (it almost seems like years ago since anyone here was really discussing them), yet official reviews seem slim to none (at least from the lack of postings I've seen here on this forum). I would think Emotiva would be chomping at the bit for Stereophile to re-release any new findings they may have, yet it hasn't happened. Or has it? I just assumed someone here would post the update if/when it was available to help calm the waters of the original review, so has it been done? The silence on the subject just seems odd to me. Add to it that it seems like hardly anyone here on this forum has purchased the new amps (from what I would call a lack of very many customer reviews threads or posts), and the silence is almost deafening.

[pedrocols]

Never heard the MMGs but I currently own the MG12 and the 1.7. I have powered them with solid, hybrid and tube amps and basically positioning is key. I don't think they sounded harsh with any of these amps. I even uploaded a video on youtube with two Emotiva UPA-1 monoblock amps powering the MG12s.

[audiobill]

I've had the MMG, the MMG-W, the 1.6 and the 1.7. And now have the 3.6/R.

All excellent tonality and soundstage. Most Lifelike!

[emotifan]

Nov 29, 2017 12:57:04 GMT -5 leonski said:

Nov 29, 2017 12:32:32 GMT -5 emotifan said:

My take away from the review was actually positive. Being very familiar with all things Magnepan, the fact that the .7s performed well with the gen 3 XPA impresses me. I'm running Monitor Audio Silver 2s through an XPA2 Gen 2 right now because I had tried the smaller MMGs with a USP-1 / Adcom GFA 5500 combo and found them too harsh in my small listening room so I changed to the MA Silver 2s before I upgraded both pre-amp and amp. My dealer had let me try the earlier 1.6s with the previous setup which sounded great but I stupidly didn't want to buy speakers at the end of their model run. I'd like to try the .7s with my current XPA2 gen 2 / XSP-1 set up. The MA Silver 2s are actually pretty awesome sounding though so I'm in no hurry.

Have you tried the 1.7s?    That's the closest to the 1.6 now in production.     

What do you mean by 'too harsh'?     Many Magnepan models come with a tweeter attenuation resistor for those who find the high end 'too hot'.   And several setup options exist.    
Believe me, I've tried nearly ALL possible setups using panels, including the 'rooze'.    You'll have to google that one!   or look @ Audio Asylum, maybe.

Other 'used' choices exist, too, and might actually depend on the size of the room.    If I had the space?   I'd love some 3.5s or 3.6s to get at that wonderful Ribbon Tweeter.
A buddy of mine has 20s.   Not 20.1 or the new 20.7, but the older 20s.    And WOW, what a speaker.   Last time I tuned in he was using big EMOs for the bass.

Sorry, I misspoke. It was the MG 12s that the dealer let me take home to try. Based on that experience I thought the little MMGs would sound very similar and in many ways they did. They just had an upper midrange / lower treble bump that I found fatiguing. That's why I'd like to try out the .7s some time because they are more of an update to the MG12s.

[geebo]

Nov 29, 2017 13:26:42 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

Nov 28, 2017 17:05:25 GMT -5 klinemj said:

emotifan

And rather than read that thread Casey posted from the beginning - start at the end and note Geebo's post. The test was a pre-production version. Emotiva said, at Emofest, results would be known to be different with the production version.

Mark

Yet the question I have is where is that official information? These "new" amps have been out in true production form for quite some time now (it almost seems like years ago since anyone here was really discussing them), yet official reviews seem slim to none (at least from the lack of postings I've seen here on this forum). I would think Emotiva would be chomping at the bit for Stereophile to re-release any new findings they may have, yet it hasn't happened. Or has it? I just assumed someone here would post the update if/when it was available to help calm the waters of the original review, so has it been done? The silence on the subject just seems odd to me. Add to it that it seems like hardly anyone here on this forum has purchased the new amps (from what I would call a lack of very many customer reviews threads or posts), and the silence is almost deafening.

Dan posted a reply a while ago and included two graphs showing their results. Looks like Stereophile won't re-test with a production unit.

From Dan:

"Hi all,

Ok, we pulled an XPA-2 G3 out of the warehouse this morning and tested it just like Stereophile does. We don't appear to have an issue.

The IM testing shows the 1 watt 8 ohm second harmonic is down by 90dB. This around .0032%.

The 60 watt (20% of rated power) test shows the second harmonic down by 75dB. This is about .018%. Very respectable. However, we do take issue with Stereophile's arbitrary 100 watt test point, as this is the same power point being used on 500+ watt mono block in the October '17 issue. I feel that 20% of rated power is probably a more realistic power point. In this case, we reference to 300 watts at 8 ohms.

As you can see looking at the residual noise spectra, any spurious noise is down in the mud, and in no way affects the audible performance.

I'm not going to spend time arguing the merits of sound quality from one amp to another. We believe we make a fine sounding amplifier that is very well behaved and neutral.

I hope this helps calm everyone down. I'lll send my results to Stereophile for comment. I'm still trying to track that review unit down...

Cheers,
Big Dan"

1 Watt
emotivalounge.proboards.com/attachment/download/27995

60Watt
emotivalounge.proboards.com/attachment/download/27996

[Casey Leedom]

Nov 29, 2017 14:26:35 GMT -5 geebo said:

... Dan posted a reply a while ago and included two graphs showing their results. Looks like Stereophile won't re-test with a production unit. ...

That's the danger of letting pre-production units get out into the review cycle. In fact, Stereophile has a policy of not reviewing prototypes because:

There are two reasons for this Stereophile policy, the first being simple: a one-of-a kind product is a product no one can buy—and since there exist so many available products we'd like to review but can't, owing to limitations of space and time, we are extremely reluctant to devote our efforts and resources to those you can't get. What would be the point? "The point is," some might reply, "we like reading about interesting designs—especially if there's a chance they'll go into production." I do, too, but it brings me to the second reason for our policy, which is slightly more complex: When we write about a prototype, we unwittingly become unpaid publicists for the company that's made it. And if our review contains specific, addressable criticisms, then Stereophile becomes an unpaid consultant to that company. That's a leg up for one manufacturer over hundreds of others—and if that company thrives, then every time we review its subsequent products, our efforts will be suspect: Readers will wonder if we've laid a thumb on the scales in that manufacturer's favor (think: the DNC and Hillary Clinton)—and however pure our motivations, they'd have every right to think just that.

But the XPA Gen3 amplifiers probably weren't considered to be "prototypes" at the time. Still, you only get one opportunity to make a good first impression ...

Casey

[geebo]

Nov 29, 2017 14:48:55 GMT -5 Casey Leedom said:

Nov 29, 2017 14:26:35 GMT -5 geebo said:

... Dan posted a reply a while ago and included two graphs showing their results. Looks like Stereophile won't re-test with a production unit. ...

That's the danger of letting pre-production units get out into the review cycle. In fact, Stereophile has a policy of not reviewing prototypes because:

There are two reasons for this Stereophile policy, the first being simple: a one-of-a kind product is a product no one can buy—and since there exist so many available products we'd like to review but can't, owing to limitations of space and time, we are extremely reluctant to devote our efforts and resources to those you can't get. What would be the point? "The point is," some might reply, "we like reading about interesting designs—especially if there's a chance they'll go into production." I do, too, but it brings me to the second reason for our policy, which is slightly more complex: When we write about a prototype, we unwittingly become unpaid publicists for the company that's made it. And if our review contains specific, addressable criticisms, then Stereophile becomes an unpaid consultant to that company. That's a leg up for one manufacturer over hundreds of others—and if that company thrives, then every time we review its subsequent products, our efforts will be suspect: Readers will wonder if we've laid a thumb on the scales in that manufacturer's favor (think: the DNC and Hillary Clinton)—and however pure our motivations, they'd have every right to think just that.

But the XPA Gen3 amplifiers probably weren't considered to be "prototypes" at the time. Still, you only get one opportunity to make a good first impression ...

Casey

Company policy is only good if it's followed but sometimes it isn't the case. At any rate, will they not test another sample?

[leonski]

Conventional Magnepan Wisdom is that as you go up line, you just get 'more'.
Not better, until maybe the ribbon tweeter at the 3.x level and up, but just MORE.
I had the ORIGINAL MG-1 from the late 70s. For over 25 years and a rebuild in White Bear Lake. That's why I simply 'skipped' the MG12 model.

I have a buddy with 20s. And a pair of 'Gunned' MMG which are spectaular in their own way. The Peter Gunn reframe AND new crossover improve the speaker a lot. Worth the price? That's touch and go.

And yes, pedrocols is 110%. SETUP is key. spacing from front wall? Toe? Spacing Between panels? Tweeters in or out? And since magnepan changed the side intended for listening, I flipped mine around and ran extensive tests listening to the Pole Piece side.
Magnepan changed their intent maybe in the 90s, early. but I'm not certain of that point.

I think EMO should INSIST that another sample be tested. A casual listening session with the original reviewer AND than a quick run thru the lab to see if the measurements change at all.
Some of what was noted in the original listening notes MIGHT be related to what was later measured. I'm willing to bet 100 Pesaos that's the case. And if the reviewer doesn't hear what he noted on the original test AND the measurements
are in-line, than I'd call it 'case closed'.

[Casey Leedom]

Nov 29, 2017 15:42:45 GMT -5 geebo said:

Company policy is only good if it's followed but sometimes it isn't the case. At any rate, will they not test another sample?

My guess is not. Doing a thorough and careful review is an extremely time consuming process, and they're busy just like everyone else.  Like I said, you only get one chance to make a good first impression.

Hopefully Emotiva will hold off submitting samples of its new 300W Monoblocks till they're fully vetted.

Casey

[geebo]

Nov 29, 2017 17:13:37 GMT -5 Casey Leedom said:

Nov 29, 2017 15:42:45 GMT -5 geebo said:

Company policy is only good if it's followed but sometimes it isn't the case. At any rate, will they not test another sample?

My guess is not. Doing a thorough and careful review is an extremely time consuming process, and they're busy just like everyone else.  Like I said, you only get one chance to make a good first impression.

Hopefully Emotiva will hold off submitting samples of its new 300W Monoblocks till they're fully vetted.

Casey

I've seen reviews where the reviewer found something questionable and obtained a second sample. It's fairly common. I wonder if they did that and if not, why not. Perhaps they didn't have the time to devote to a small company. I wonder if it were McIntosh or Krell what they would have done.

[Bonzo]

Nov 29, 2017 14:26:35 GMT -5 geebo said:

Dan posted a reply a while ago and included two graphs showing their results. Looks like Stereophile won't re-test with a production unit.

I would most certainly hope Emotiva would post some sort of reply. Although I would also expect such a reply, as it would be with any company, to be biased / slanted towards their product. And that's the hope of independent or magazines reviews; they would be more less bias. That's the hope anyway. [And for those many here ready to type about how you don't trust magazines because they are basically paid by the manufacturers in one way or another, let me point out then that you certainly can't trust Sound & vision Emotiva reviews, because Emotiva is amongst the few company's who run full page adds and have done so for many years running.]

No, I'd be hoping that Stereophile would be willing to do it again. But who knows what conversations took place behind the scenes on the original review. I'm not going to speculate either way because that could be like a legal battle.

[Bonzo]

Nov 29, 2017 17:26:01 GMT -5 geebo said:

I've seen reviews where the reviewer found something questionable and obtained a second sample. It's fairly common. I wonder if they did that and if not, why not. Perhaps they didn't have the time to devote to a small company. I wonder if it were McIntosh or Krell what they would have done.

Like I just said, I'm not wanting to speculate. There are so many variables here we just don't know. But you are sort of implying it's all Stereophile's fault. Do you know that for sure?

I'm not saying this is what happened at all, because I have no idea, but hypothetically, what if Stereophile was told by whoever supplied the sample at Emotiva that it was a production ready unit? And when Emotiva balked after the review saying otherwise, Stereophile felt duped? We do know Emotiva has been guilty of internal miscommunication issues from time to time. And that's just one hypothetical possibility. I could get nasty with other possibilities, on either side.

It would be nice if they would re-review a new unit, but......

And again, back to my original post, where are all the other reviews of these new amps? There are lots of other magazines out there. But what about even here on this forum? People used to talk about the Gen 1 XPA-1, XPA-2 and XPA-5 all the time. In comparison, the discussion of these new amps is like crickets.

[geebo]

Nov 29, 2017 18:28:39 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

Nov 29, 2017 17:26:01 GMT -5 geebo said:

I've seen reviews where the reviewer found something questionable and obtained a second sample. It's fairly common. I wonder if they did that and if not, why not. Perhaps they didn't have the time to devote to a small company. I wonder if it were McIntosh or Krell what they would have done.

Like I just said, I'm not wanting to speculate. There are so many variables here we just don't know. But you are sort of implying it's all Stereophile's fault. Do you know that for sure?

I'm not saying this is what happened at all, because I have no idea, but hypothetically, what if Stereophile was told by whoever supplied the sample at Emotiva that it was a production ready unit? And when Emotiva balked after the review saying otherwise, Stereophile felt duped? We do know Emotiva has been guilty of internal miscommunication issues from time to time. And that's just one hypothetical possibility. I could get nasty with other possibilities, on either side.

It would be nice if they would re-review a new unit, but......

And again, back to my original post, where are all the other reviews of these new amps? There are lots of other magazines out there. But what about even here on this forum? People used to talk about the Gen 1 XPA-1, XPA-2 and XPA-5 all the time. In comparison, the discussion of these new amps is like crickets.

Just wondering if they would have treated McIntosh or Krell in the same way. You're right, we just don't know for certain.
Home Theater did a review of a Gen 3.
hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/amplifier/power-amplifier/emotiva-xpa-gen3-power-amplifier-review/

[KeithL]

Hey.......

We've sold a LOT of XPA Gen3 amps..... so where ARE all those forum reviews?

To be honest, we're more interested in what our customers think of them anyway

Nov 29, 2017 18:38:15 GMT -5 geebo said:

Nov 29, 2017 18:28:39 GMT -5 Bonzo said:

Like I just said, I'm not wanting to speculate. There are so many variables here we just don't know. But you are sort of implying it's all Stereophile's fault. Do you know that for sure?

I'm not saying this is what happened at all, because I have no idea, but hypothetically, what if Stereophile was told by whoever supplied the sample at Emotiva that it was a production ready unit? And when Emotiva balked after the review saying otherwise, Stereophile felt duped? We do know Emotiva has been guilty of internal miscommunication issues from time to time. And that's just one hypothetical possibility. I could get nasty with other possibilities, on either side.

It would be nice if they would re-review a new unit, but......

And again, back to my original post, where are all the other reviews of these new amps? There are lots of other magazines out there. But what about even here on this forum? People used to talk about the Gen 1 XPA-1, XPA-2 and XPA-5 all the time. In comparison, the discussion of these new amps is like crickets.

Just wondering if they would have treated McIntosh or Krell in the same way. You're right, we just don't know for certain.
Home Theater did a review of a Gen 3.
hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/amplifier/power-amplifier/emotiva-xpa-gen3-power-amplifier-review/

[kybourbon]

Nov 29, 2017 18:53:31 GMT -5 KeithL said:

Hey.......

We've sold a LOT of XPA Gen3 amps..... so where ARE all those forum reviews?

To be honest, we're more interested in what our customers think of them anyway

Nov 29, 2017 18:38:15 GMT -5 geebo said:

Just wondering if they would have treated McIntosh or Krell in the same way. You're right, we just don't know for certain.
Home Theater did a review of a Gen 3.
hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/amplifier/power-amplifier/emotiva-xpa-gen3-power-amplifier-review/

I have one.

I like it so far.