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Post by leonski on Dec 11, 2017 13:06:53 GMT -5
You know, you CAN have an AHH! HA! moment. I was at a friend house a long time ago. Mid / Early 1980s. He was selling a pair of Magnepan MG-1 panels. I took 'em home, sold my solid 3-way JBL4311 copies and have never looked back.
I have never had reason to regret that decision.
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Post by snacker on Dec 11, 2017 21:32:01 GMT -5
I'd recommend giving Tekton a try. I have Pendragons and Double Impacts and sold some Martin Logan Ascents. Not sure if they compare much to the ones you have but I have no regrets.
Those "super tweeters" on the lores I can't give an opinion on. Maybe more harsh than the triple ring on others? I just don't know.
I believe Tekton has a 60 day trial period. Worst you could do is have to pay shipping back.
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 11, 2017 22:18:09 GMT -5
Tekton tweeters (at least, the ones in my Pendragons) take a LOT of time to settle down. Yes, they WERE bright when new, but after a couple of months, they weren't. Can I prove that it wasn't just my ears adapting to them? If I'd had the measuring capability at that time, I believe I could. It wasn't just an "I got used to it" phenomenon. The sound of the tweeters did change (despite the manufacturer's claims that they won't).
Now there will be a group here that will claim that any change is so small that it would be inaudible. Otherwise, the speaker designers could never "voice" a speaker reliably. But my ears say otherwise, and (if I could measure it again from new to six-months-old), I believe I could prove it.
Cheers - Boom
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Post by leonski on Dec 11, 2017 23:02:33 GMT -5
Yep, Boom, ome of those 3rd rail issues. Did YOU change or did the Speaker? One way to get some kind of indication would be to find other manufacturers that use the same drivers. I'd mainly be interested in the tweeters, of course. Logical places to start would be the likes of Focal or SEAS. Eminence is what I see listed: www.eminence.com/pro-audio/ |
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Post by DavidR on Dec 11, 2017 23:38:22 GMT -5
Your ears will break in sooner or later. Another thought> Do the speaker crossovers have polypropylene or mylar film capacitors? If they do you can tame the harsh/bright/grainy nature of them with a high-end film and foil, small value capacitor by wiring it in parallel to the series cap for the tweeters.
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Post by knucklehead on Dec 12, 2017 0:44:45 GMT -5
I don't see how it is possible to recommend speakers online. And without some kind of audition. Not everyone lives near a big city and 3-4 (or more) audio shops. Closest one to me is 90 miles and that's a BB with a Magnolia HiFi inside. Which is nothing like the original and the 3-4 stores that came after. That was an awesome chain of audio shops. I spent a lot of time and money in the U District (original store) Magnolia HiFi shop. Lovely place that will likely never be duplicated. Time changes all things. The only way I can realistically audition speakers is in someone's home near me. I doubt there are 20 people in my Podunk town that have anything resembling an audiophile setup. I do know one person that has a set of Emotiva T2s. Being relatively isolated makes me have to do my homework. After I sold the ERT 8.3s it took me almost 2 years of research to settle on the Salk Song Towers. Believe it or not I read nearly every post in that thread! I hadn't heard or seen any Salk speaker in person before buying a used pair from a Lounge member. I also bought his custom Selah Audio center speaker - and I'm very glad I did. It's the best center speaker I've ever owned - or heard to date. I marvel at the hologram-like audio I get with them - and I don't need a sub although I do use the SVS with TV and movies. Don't need it for music. If I stood on 'don't buy what you can't hear' I'd probably still be using the old Infinity Interlude IL40s - a decent enough speaker but not in the same league as the song towers. Not many speakers are at $2.2k and under. I agree - if someone is looking for new speakers the in-person audition is the best way to go. In fact I encourage anyone looking for the right speaker to take a look at their local Craigs List offerings. 10 year old speakers that sold for a street price of $3000 can be had for much less - often half or less. Speakers do not hold their value very well. Better IMO than electronics but thats another story. |
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Post by leonski on Dec 12, 2017 2:12:00 GMT -5
Your ears will break in sooner or later. Another thought> Do the speaker crossovers have polypropylene or mylar film capacitors? If they do you can tame the harsh/bright/grainy nature of them with a high-end film and foil, small value capacitor by wiring it in parallel to the series cap for the tweeters. A so-called 'bypass' cap. And since most crossover caps are probably no better than +-10% of stated value, you wont' effect anything, at least crossover frequency-wise. Some leverage in crossover mods MIGHT be to get 5% rated caps and get 'em in matched sets? At least than the speakers will be the 'same', for better or worse. This is potentially an expensive way to go. |
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Post by leonski on Dec 12, 2017 2:27:17 GMT -5
Your ears will break in sooner or later. Another thought> Do the speaker crossovers have polypropylene or mylar film capacitors? If they do you can tame the harsh/bright/grainy nature of them with a high-end film and foil, small value capacitor by wiring it in parallel to the series cap for the tweeters. A so-called 'bypass' cap. And since most crossover caps are probably no better than +-10% of stated value, you wont' effect anything, at least crossover frequency-wise. Some leverage in crossover mods MIGHT be to get 5% rated caps and get 'em in matched sets? At least than the speakers will be the 'same', for better or worse. This is potentially an expensive way to go. As for speaker choice without audition? I'm sorry, but that is a form of crap-shoot. To make an advised decision based on reviews, you should KNOW your reviewer. What he or she likes. Some idea of musical values helps, too. Me saying 'Magnepan' or somebody saying ML or Bose or Focal is meaningless. I and nobody else has ANY idea what you value in music. Or what you listen for. At some price point, it may even be desireable to go to the nearest big town with multiple stores for a day or even a weekend. Arrange in advance to hear what you may be best interested in. Get some sales guys names so you have a point of contact. Bring your favorite CD or other source material. Even some Vinyl if that floats your boat. I appreciate that the internet and lack of new blood in the hobby has pretty much ruined many B+M stores. Even here in my town where I had a couple choices, at least one of 'em folded in the last year. This was a huge store with maybe 8 soundrooms and a Gigantic selection of everything. And a knowledgeable staff, too. Last I saw of 'em they were in a 3 room suite, doing the last sell-off prior to folding. Their previous location had been leased to another operation, I bought my Grade headphones at that time. |
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Post by DavidR on Dec 12, 2017 11:06:41 GMT -5
Your ears will break in sooner or later. Another thought> Do the speaker crossovers have polypropylene or mylar film capacitors? If they do you can tame the harsh/bright/grainy nature of them with a high-end film and foil, small value capacitor by wiring it in parallel to the series cap for the tweeters. A so-called 'bypass' cap. And since most crossover caps are probably no better than +-10% of stated value, you wont' effect anything, at least crossover frequency-wise. Some leverage in crossover mods MIGHT be to get 5% rated caps and get 'em in matched sets? At least than the speakers will be the 'same', for better or worse. This is potentially an expensive way to go. The use/purpose of a bypass cap has nothing to do with changing the overall capacitance an insignificant amount. They WILL reduce glare, brightness and grain. It's an electrical thing.  |
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Post by leonski on Dec 12, 2017 14:19:18 GMT -5
Of course adding a capactior changes the capacitance.
But? How much and is it significant?
Not much and Not significant. 2 major reasons:
1. Crossover caps can be 20mfd on UP Adding 0.68mfd (a standard value) won't make much difference. I've seen some recommendations for a bypass cap to be '1% of the total'.
2. Capacitors are Notorious for not being the value on the label. =-10% is common while the Mundorf Supreme @2% might be the 'tightest' cap you can get.
I don't remember off the top, but Solon or Clarity moght make a reasonably affordable cap @5% tolerance.
A quick 'Google' of 'bypass capacitor' shows little consensus on 'good / bad or waste of money'. The lower ESR obtained by adding such a cap might help in some cases. Don't forget that some of those highly
regarded capacitors are ALSO beastly expensive.
By pass caps are potentially another 3rd rail topic and I won't touch the validitiy of it.
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Post by DavidR on Dec 12, 2017 18:01:27 GMT -5
I restore speakers and have used this 'tactic' on many of my restorations to reduce glare and brightness from using film caps. As I said it's more than just adding a small cap in parallel to the base cap and increasing capacitance. One additional thing it does is allow the larger cap to discharge quicker. There are other electrical effects going on between the two.  This little cap is 0.01uF (or 10nF). It is an excellent bypass capacitor. This particular one is 1% tolerance. Another is AudioCap Theta film and foil. There are many 1% tol caps: Dayton, Jupiture and Duelund to name a few. The latter two can cost more than the speakers for just one. When I add bypass caps to one speaker and do an A/B test I can easily hear the difference. So I know it works. |
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Post by leonski on Dec 13, 2017 3:40:12 GMT -5
Magnepan supplies 1 ohm or so resistors for the same purpose. ''Jumper' plugs are provided on the input panel for just that use.
I think they are 5 watt but might be 10 watt.
One of the main 'other effects' of a bypass cap is the ESR in parallel wiht th eother caps. This lowers the net resistance.
Of course you know this, but for others benefit, an electronic device is rarely pure anything. Capacitors have reisitance and maybe a small amount of inductance. Inductors definately have resistance. Most poeple wouldn't believe what is measured on a simple power transistor when it is being 'probed' before sale.
Parts ain't parts
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Post by mv on Dec 13, 2017 11:43:54 GMT -5
Not to belittle this conversation, but OP I don't know how you had statements and then got rid of them. Components alone were more than your current budget, and I have yet to hear a more concise reproduction of music than through those gems. Seems to me anything you listen to after that would be a downgrade. I am sure Salon2's or some other exotic speaker that is financed by a 30yr fixed loan would be better, but I couldn't see a current offering of under $5k beating them. This as you can see is my opinion...I am sure you had your reasons. Good luck with your new purchase.
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Post by Bonzo on Dec 13, 2017 13:48:54 GMT -5
As for speaker choice without audition? I'm sorry, but that is a form of crap-shoot. To make an advised decision based on reviews, you should KNOW your reviewer. What he or she likes. Some idea of musical values helps, too. Me saying 'Magnepan' or somebody saying ML or Bose or Focal is meaningless. I and nobody else has ANY idea what you value in music. Or what you listen for. At some price point, it may even be desireable to go to the nearest big town with multiple stores for a day or even a weekend. Arrange in advance to hear what you may be best interested in. Get some sales guys names so you have a point of contact. Bring your favorite CD or other source material. Even some Vinyl if that floats your boat. +1. Agree 100%. Speakers are so much about personal taste. One man's dream speaker is another's worst experience. An NO speaker is perfect. I would go one step further and recommend to anyone wanting new speakers that they burn a custom CD or 2 with songs they are either super familiar with, ones they love, or even songs they know to be hard for speakers to replicate. That way they only need to take along a single small case and they can just put one CD in the store player and listen without the time consuming hassle of changing CD's. |
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Post by dasanto2 on Dec 13, 2017 14:01:15 GMT -5
Not to belittle this conversation, but OP I don't know how you had statements and then got rid of them. Components alone were more than your current budget, and I have yet to hear a more concise reproduction of music than through those gems. Seems to me anything you listen to after that would be a downgrade. I am sure Salon2's or some other exotic speaker that is financed by a 30yr fixed loan would be better, but I couldn't see a current offering of under $5k beating them. This as you can see is my opinion...I am sure you had your reasons. Good luck with your new purchase. You are spot on my friend, to this day the statements are the best speakers I have ever owned, I still miss them. However, my new space has changed dramatically, and I wasn’t able to really enjoy them like they are meant to be enjoyed. This is why I’m moving to something a little smaller, like maybe the tekton lores. |
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Post by jcz06 on Jan 21, 2018 20:22:38 GMT -5
I was impressed with the DIs today on a tube system.....want to hear/see the ULFS |
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Post by vneal on Jan 21, 2018 20:52:55 GMT -5
This price range I would consider
EMOTIVA and ELAC
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Post by audiophill on Jan 22, 2018 10:09:44 GMT -5
My Tekton Brillance are perfect for tube amps. Unbelievable detail!
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Post by pawsman on Jan 23, 2018 7:13:04 GMT -5
The Tekton Impact Monitors are great for a smaller space; I've got 2 Emotiva subs corner loaded
in the front corners of the room.
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Post by jason05216 on Jan 23, 2018 9:12:36 GMT -5
The Tekton Impact Monitors are great for a smaller space; I've got 2 Emotiva subs corner loaded in the front corners of the room. I've got the Impact Monitors with an S12 sub and really like them. I don't think they sound harsh at all. |
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