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Post by socketman on Jan 7, 2018 13:57:00 GMT -5
The text to voice used in the video was spooky. The projector looks interesting if the price is right.
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klinemj
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Official Emofest Scribe
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Post by klinemj on Jan 8, 2018 9:44:37 GMT -5
I've been busy with other projects.... But I've been reading this thread (and its ancestors) from time to time.... And I've got a few comments to throw out there.... 3) We are caught in a bit of a tricky situation when it comes to disclosing plans and product information: - If we announce a future target, then fail to meet it, we get accused of lying, or simply of being bad at meeting our goals. - But, if we limit ourselves to announcing available products, and refuse to announce future plans, we get accused of "not being transparent". Therefore, since there is no solution that will please everyone, we make the decisions about what to announce based on what we think is the best overall compromise. We do our best to only announce things that are likely to come to pass, and to be honest about the odds on things that we aren't sure of. If it makes you feel better, then consider everything we say here like those "forward looking" statements on company stock reports. (They're not allowed to lie; but notice the footnote that says: "These are forward-looking statements, based on current projections and plans, and are subject to change".) If you're not willing to accept what you read here under those conditions, then you're probably better off simply not reading it. (If that's the case, just watch the website; and, when you see a product on the shopping cart, then it's available.) Thanks for this post Keith. I miss the days when Emotiva could share even more, but the beatings they took if they missed on anything - despite their best efforts to bring us cool new products - led to a situation where we heard nothing at all. I didn't like that because hearing the forward looking statements on what was coming was pretty cool, even if the item was far off. I think we have a good compromise now but still, some choose to focus on trying to build a case that Emotiva is lying to us. Not sure why they get so worked up, but...each to their own. I'll just take what I can get from Emotiva and if it doesn't meet my needs - buy something else. That's what an open, competitive market is there for. Mark |
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Post by garbulky on Jan 8, 2018 10:21:04 GMT -5
I agree with Keith that it's best not to announce stuff before they are ready or the date is set in stone. That way all this drama can be avoided. It's ready when it's ready. I think that's a smart move.
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Post by Soup on Jan 8, 2018 10:37:16 GMT -5
I agree with Keith that it's best not to announce stuff before they are ready or the date is set in stone. That way all this drama can be avoided. It's ready when it's ready. I think that's a smart move. Yup!  |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jan 8, 2018 12:31:43 GMT -5
Interesting that they do 120 FPS, but only via USB. Maybe we need the HDMI 2.0b board to include USB C!  |
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 8, 2018 17:25:04 GMT -5
Thanks for this post Keith. I miss the days when Emotiva could share even more, but the beatings they took if they missed on anything - despite their best efforts to bring us cool new products - led to a situation where we heard nothing at all. I didn't like that because hearing the forward looking statements on what was coming was pretty cool, even if the item was far off. I think we have a good compromise now but still, some choose to focus on trying to build a case that Emotiva is lying to us. Not sure why they get so worked up, but...each to their own. I'll just take what I can get from Emotiva and if it doesn't meet my needs - buy something else. That's what an open, competitive market is there for. Not sure this hits the mark completely for the angst in this particular thread - Doc provided several examples when Dan himself says a date AND that it's in production. That's pretty black and white - either it's in production or it isn't. People delay their purchase putting their faith in Dan's statements, but then there's no retraction on "in-production", no update as they get closer to the promised date saying it isn't looking good, etc.. You know Emo knows, if nothing else, weeks in advance they won't hit the date, but there's no proactive giving a heads up, the date comes and goes, then later a new date is given or silence. So then they feel misled. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Were they misled? I don't know, but waving off the data points with nothing more than "damned if you do, damned if you don't" is just as bad as getting upset that dates weren't met. Both ignore the bigger picture. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Jan 8, 2018 17:46:29 GMT -5
Actually, in this case, it hits the mark exactly - but it may not be obvious unless you're an insider. The hardware design for the boards has been completed for some time.... and the firmware is nearing completion. The boards are now in production, and we expect to have the final firmware by the time we receive them. Once we have both a batch the boards and the final firmware the firmware will be loaded on the boards - at which point we can thoroughly test them. Then, assuming they work as expected, and all the testing is successful, we will be releasing them for sale. Unfortunately, with custom parts, it's impossible to know with 100% certainty that everything will work as expected until you test it. (The prototypes work fine... but they aren't exactly the same as the production units... which don't actually exist until the production batch is run.) In this case, we also based our predictions on dates promised by our suppliers..... And, obviously, we can't know if they'll make their deliveries on time until the product actually shows up in our loading dock. (These are parts that are only available from one vendor, who is customizing them for us, so we can't just buy them somewhere else.) Therefore, the choice remains: - we can give you our best estimate about when we'll have them - or we can tell you that they'll be available when you see them on the cart And neither option will make everyone happy. (Believe me, we'd love to start delivering them just as soon as we have them and we're sure they're working properly.) Thanks for this post Keith. I miss the days when Emotiva could share even more, but the beatings they took if they missed on anything - despite their best efforts to bring us cool new products - led to a situation where we heard nothing at all. I didn't like that because hearing the forward looking statements on what was coming was pretty cool, even if the item was far off. I think we have a good compromise now but still, some choose to focus on trying to build a case that Emotiva is lying to us. Not sure why they get so worked up, but...each to their own. I'll just take what I can get from Emotiva and if it doesn't meet my needs - buy something else. That's what an open, competitive market is there for. Not sure this hits the mark completely for the angst in this particular thread - Doc provided several examples when Dan himself says a date AND that it's in production. That's pretty black and white - either it's in production or it isn't. People delay their purchase putting their faith in Dan's statements, but then there's no retraction on "in-production", no update as they get closer to the promised date saying it isn't looking good, etc.. You know Emo knows, if nothing else, weeks in advance they won't hit the date, but there's no proactive giving a heads up, the date comes and goes, then later a new date is given or silence. So then they feel misled. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Were they misled? I don't know, but waving off the data points with nothing more than "damned if you do, damned if you don't" is just as bad as getting upset that dates weren't met. Both ignore the bigger picture. |
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Post by foggy1956 on Jan 8, 2018 17:58:35 GMT -5
Actually, in this case, it hits the mark exactly - but it may not be obvious unless you're an insider. The hardware design for the boards has been completed for some time.... and the firmware is nearing completion. The boards are now in production, and we expect to have the final firmware by the time we receive them. Once we have both a batch the boards and the final firmware the firmware will be loaded on the boards - at which point we can thoroughly test them. Then, assuming they work as expected, and all the testing is successful, we will be releasing them for sale. Unfortunately, with custom parts, it's impossible to know with 100% certainty that everything will work as expected until you test it. (The prototypes work fine... but they aren't exactly the same as the production units... which don't actually exist until the production batch is run.) In this case, we also based our predictions on dates promised by our suppliers..... And, obviously, we can't know if they'll make their deliveries on time until the product actually shows up in our loading dock. (These are parts that are only available from one vendor, who is customizing them for us, so we can't just buy them somewhere else.) Therefore, the choice remains: - we can give you our best estimate about when we'll have them - or we can tell you that they'll be available when you see them on the cart And neither option will make everyone happy. (Believe me, we'd love to start delivering them just as soon as we have them and we're sure they're working properly.) Not sure this hits the mark completely for the angst in this particular thread - Doc provided several examples when Dan himself says a date AND that it's in production. That's pretty black and white - either it's in production or it isn't. People delay their purchase putting their faith in Dan's statements, but then there's no retraction on "in-production", no update as they get closer to the promised date saying it isn't looking good, etc.. You know Emo knows, if nothing else, weeks in advance they won't hit the date, but there's no proactive giving a heads up, the date comes and goes, then later a new date is given or silence. So then they feel misled. Seems pretty straight forward to me. Were they misled? I don't know, but waving off the data points with nothing more than "damned if you do, damned if you don't" is just as bad as getting upset that dates weren't met. Both ignore the bigger picture. This type of a post occasionally would be simply awesome |
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 8, 2018 18:23:16 GMT -5
Actually, in this case, it hits the mark exactly - but it may not be obvious unless you're an insider. The hardware design for the boards has been completed for some time.... and the firmware is nearing completion. The boards are now in production, and we expect to have the final firmware by the time we receive them. Once we have both a batch the boards and the final firmware the firmware will be loaded on the boards - at which point we can thoroughly test them. Then, assuming they work as expected, and all the testing is successful, we will be releasing them for sale. Maybe I missed something because that explains them being in production "now". However, as pointed out by Doc, Dan said in one of the CES videos last January they were " in production" then AND they'd be shipping a month. That is January 2017, shipping in Feb 2017. You can see the video linked in Doc's post. In addition, Talley pointed out your website on 3/26/16 said " in production" and available " middle summer 2016". Are you saying that they have been "in production" and you have been working on the final firmware/thoroughly testing a batch for 21 months? Again, "in production" is pretty black and white. And again, no doubt weeks before "middle summer 2016" and weeks before "February 2017" no doubt you knew you weren't hitting "middle of summer 2016" and "February 2017", and yet no proactive communication was provided that those dates weren't going to happen. If I was going to miss a date for a project of mine at work and I didn't proactively communicate it in advance, I'd get crucified. Management would laugh at me if I said "well I'd be damned if I give you a new date and miss that, and damned if I didn't give you a date at all". No idea why this is so difficult to grasp. It's so bizarre - this thread has 2 groups of people on 2 entirely different planes that don't intersect and this, as subject matter goes, isn't that complex. |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Jan 8, 2018 19:08:08 GMT -5
I sense that at least one of the participants in this conversation seems to have missed one or two important details....... The original XMC-1 shipped with what we now refer to as the v1 HDMI board - which supported HDMI 1.4b (it actually also supported 4k - but not HDCP 2.2). In September 2016 we released a 4k upgrade board for the XMC-1 (this is now known as the v2 HDMI board). This upgrade added 4k and HDCP 2.2 on one input and one output - but did NOT include support for HDR. These boards were offered as an upgrade to current XMC-1 owners and shipped as "standard" on the XMC-1 for a short time. There are currently quite a few of them out there. THEN, as HDMI 2.0a and HDMI 2.0b became more available, and more in demand, in order to keep up, we announced ANOTHER HDMI upgrade board. This new 4k board, which supports 4k and HDCP 2.2 on ALL inputs and outputs, as well as HDR, is known as the v3 HDMI board. THAT'S the board that is currently in production... and which will be available shortly. (Once it became obvious that most of our customers would want the new board, we discontinued the v2 HDMI board, so it is no longer available.) Actually, in this case, it hits the mark exactly - but it may not be obvious unless you're an insider. The hardware design for the boards has been completed for some time.... and the firmware is nearing completion. The boards are now in production, and we expect to have the final firmware by the time we receive them. Once we have both a batch the boards and the final firmware the firmware will be loaded on the boards - at which point we can thoroughly test them. Then, assuming they work as expected, and all the testing is successful, we will be releasing them for sale. Maybe I missed something because that explains them being in production "now". However, as pointed out by Doc, Dan said in one of the CES videos last January they were " in production" then AND they'd be shipping a month. That is January 2017, shipping in Feb 2017. You can see the video linked in Doc's post. In addition, Talley pointed out your website on 3/26/16 said " in production" and available " middle summer 2016". Are you saying that they have been "in production" and you have been working on the final firmware/thoroughly testing a batch for 21 months? Again, "in production" is pretty black and white. And again, no doubt weeks before "middle summer 2016" and weeks before "February 2017" no doubt you knew you weren't hitting "middle of summer 2016" and "February 2017", and yet no proactive communication was provided that those dates weren't going to happen. If I was going to miss a date for a project of mine at work and I didn't proactively communicate it in advance, I'd get crucified. Management would laugh at me if I said "well I'd be damned if I give you a new date and miss that, and damned if I didn't give you a date at all". No idea why this is so difficult to grasp. It's so bizarre - this thread has 2 groups of people on 2 entirely different planes that don't intersect and this, as subject matter goes, isn't that complex. |
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Post by modicen on Jan 8, 2018 19:23:09 GMT -5
With all due respect Keith and I know it's not your fault, but I feel like I heard this same explanation repeated over and over for the past year. It sounds like the boards are not even going to be ready this quarter.
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Post by Talley on Jan 8, 2018 20:04:55 GMT -5
Your talking about my XMC-1... with the original 1.4b  Patient as I can be... I sense that at least one of the participants in this conversation seems to have missed one or two important details....... The original XMC-1 shipped with what we now refer to as the v1 HDMI board - which supported HDMI 1.4b (it actually also supported 4k - but not HDCP 2.2). In September 2016 we released a 4k upgrade board for the XMC-1 (this is now known as the v2 HDMI board). This upgrade added 4k and HDCP 2.2 on one input and one output - but did NOT include support for HDR. These boards were offered as an upgrade to current XMC-1 owners and shipped as "standard" on the XMC-1 for a short time. There are currently quite a few of them out there. THEN, as HDMI 2.0a and HDMI 2.0b became more available, and more in demand, in order to keep up, we announced ANOTHER HDMI upgrade board. This new 4k board, which supports 4k and HDCP 2.2 on ALL inputs and outputs, as well as HDR, is known as the v3 HDMI board. THAT'S the board that is currently in production... and which will be available shortly. (Once it became obvious that most of our customers would want the new board, we discontinued the v2 HDMI board, so it is no longer available.) |
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 8, 2018 23:26:51 GMT -5
I sense that at least one of the participants in this conversation seems to have missed one or two important details....... The original XMC-1 shipped with what we now refer to as the v1 HDMI board - which supported HDMI 1.4b (it actually also supported 4k - but not HDCP 2.2). In September 2016 we released a 4k upgrade board for the XMC-1 (this is now known as the v2 HDMI board). This upgrade added 4k and HDCP 2.2 on one input and one output - but did NOT include support for HDR. These boards were offered as an upgrade to current XMC-1 owners and shipped as "standard" on the XMC-1 for a short time. There are currently quite a few of them out there. THEN, as HDMI 2.0a and HDMI 2.0b became more available, and more in demand, in order to keep up, we announced ANOTHER HDMI upgrade board. This new 4k board, which supports 4k and HDCP 2.2 on ALL inputs and outputs, as well as HDR, is known as the v3 HDMI board. THAT'S the board that is currently in production... and which will be available shortly. (Once it became obvious that most of our customers would want the new board, we discontinued the v2 HDMI board, so it is no longer available.) Here's the link to the Youtube video of Dan at last year's CES that Doc provided: www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1z3j8ov2rE&app=desktopAt 42 seconds in Dan states, and I quote: "Our new 4k video solution. 8x2. HDMI 2.0b. HDCP 2.2. High bandwidth. High speed video. This is shipping now for the XMC-1 and will be the basic decoder board that goes with the RMC-1. So that will be shipping here next month." I'm sensing it's pretty cut and dried but you tell me if he's referring to the V2 board and I will gladly listen. We can compare our senses. You were right about the 3/16/16 website link Talley provided - it was for the V2 board, so that makes it 12 months in production, not 19. It appears my eyes are going and I read that link too fast, but my ears still seem to work fine. |
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Post by pknaz on Jan 9, 2018 2:03:00 GMT -5
I sense that at least one of the participants in this conversation seems to have missed one or two important details....... The original XMC-1 shipped with what we now refer to as the v1 HDMI board - which supported HDMI 1.4b (it actually also supported 4k - but not HDCP 2.2). In September 2016 we released a 4k upgrade board for the XMC-1 (this is now known as the v2 HDMI board). This upgrade added 4k and HDCP 2.2 on one input and one output - but did NOT include support for HDR. These boards were offered as an upgrade to current XMC-1 owners and shipped as "standard" on the XMC-1 for a short time. There are currently quite a few of them out there. THEN, as HDMI 2.0a and HDMI 2.0b became more available, and more in demand, in order to keep up, we announced ANOTHER HDMI upgrade board. This new 4k board, which supports 4k and HDCP 2.2 on ALL inputs and outputs, as well as HDR, is known as the v3 HDMI board. THAT'S the board that is currently in production... and which will be available shortly. (Once it became obvious that most of our customers would want the new board, we discontinued the v2 HDMI board, so it is no longer available.) Here's the link to the Youtube video of Dan at last year's CES that Doc provided: www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1z3j8ov2rE&app=desktopAt 42 seconds in Dan states, and I quote: "Our new 4k video solution. 8x2. HDMI 2.0b. HDCP 2.2. High bandwidth. High speed video. This is shipping now for the XMC-1 and will be the basic decoder board that goes with the RMC-1. So that will be shipping here next month." I'm sensing it's pretty cut and dried but you tell me if he's referring to the V2 board and I will gladly listen. We can compare our senses. You were right about the 3/16/16 website link Talley provided - it was for the V2 board, so that makes it 12 months in production, not 19. It appears my eyes are going and I read that link too fast, but my ears still seem to work fine. My understanding is that video is in reference to the V2 board, which shipped with the XMC that I have, not the V3 board they are working on now. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 9, 2018 3:44:42 GMT -5
My understanding is that video is in reference to the V2 board, which shipped with the XMC that I have, not the V3 board they are working on now. So does that mean the V2 board was "8x2. HDMI 2.0b. HDCP 2.2. High bandwidth. High speed video"  Wow, I should have bought one back in September 2016, then I wouldn't be still waiting for a V3 board with the same spec  Cheers Gary |
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Post by modicen on Jan 9, 2018 6:51:16 GMT -5
^ what Gary said.
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,033
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 9, 2018 7:59:50 GMT -5
Does it really make a difference at this point, who said what!! WTF!
The boards are not out yet.....you can't buy them yet.....you have to actually wait if you want them. Bottom line.
Sorry about that....I'm usually pretty calm, but this grinding of teeth and wringing of hands and pointing of fingers is not productive at all.
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Post by Talley on Jan 9, 2018 9:08:23 GMT -5
They got us by the balls...
nothing else out there sounds like the XMC-1. I'm happily waiting. I don't need it yet... maybe another year for me. Then I'll be anxious.
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 9, 2018 9:33:25 GMT -5
Does it really make a difference at this point, who said what!! WTF! Of course it does. The people who are presently trying to make a decision on staying with the XMC or moving on are including current information provided by the same individuals who gave prior information. He who ignores history is doomed to repeat it. |
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 9, 2018 9:35:00 GMT -5
My understanding is that video is in reference to the V2 board, which shipped with the XMC that I have, not the V3 board they are working on now. Unbelievable. Wow. |
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