dolby
Minor Hero
Posts: 62 
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Post by dolby on Dec 24, 2017 14:46:23 GMT -5
Over the past few years, I've had many Emotiva units and really do love the brand. They look good and, more importantly, they sound great! However, I've never bought the units brand new for two reasons :
* Shipping and duties generally meant the units weren't as great when it comes to value for money. They were still really good - but they didn't quite match the value as overseas
* The 5 year warranty meant nothing as the units had to be sent back - often costing the same as buying a new unit anyway. So, in the end you'd be be paying a fairly high price with zero piece of mind
Imagine then, how ecstatic I was when I heard Emotiva was going to have international distributors going forward! Instantly this means the second point regarding warranty is null and thus, I decided to chat to the guys regarding the units. Soon though, I realized this international model doesn't work because of the premium charged. You see, 10% I can do ... even 20% ... 30% may be pushing it ... but when we're looking at a 50% premium it makes zero sense.
As an example, the XMC-1 is $2,500 and the Rotel RSP1582 is a whopping $1,000 (40%) more at $3,500. However, bring them both to South Africa and the Rotel is actually the cheaper of the two units because of the huge premium of the Emotiva. In fact, buying direct from the site is still25% cheaper than getting it via the distributior ....
Same with the MC700 which is a budget processor. Locally with the premium it's a new league and competing with far 'better' competitors. The MC700 is a great processor - just not at the price!
Basically my question is will this change in future?
Otherwise, you may as well just stick to your previous model.
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Post by brubacca on Dec 24, 2017 14:56:24 GMT -5
Probably not as these internation people are not direct Emotive companies. They are third parties who have to pay to ship the product to their locations, pay import duties/taxes and pay for warehousing/office space. In other words they have expenses and they need to make a profit selling the gear in their countries. If it makes you feel better the extra money is going for something. If the Rotel is cheaper go with the Rotel. I am fairly certain they are made by Jade Design also.
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 24, 2017 15:21:25 GMT -5
It's the same in Australia, as I have mentioned many times, for the same cost as buying one here I could fly to the US, spend a couple of weeks on holiday and pick up an XMC-1 on the way home. On the local audio/video forums I would read about somone buying a new piece of Emotiva gear every couple of weeks and since the first distributor was appointed, they are now on their second, I can't recall having read about a single Emotiva purchase. In the family we have 11 pieces of Emotiva gear and I have installed and/or serviced at least twice that many for friends and friends of friends and even a few complete strangers. Since the new local pricing structure was introduced I haven't bought a single piece and I haven't installed any either. I have no idea how the local distributorship and pricing is working out for Emotiva but based on the evidence I have seen I'd say not very well. Audio video enthusiasts look around the world for their hobby and are more than capable of doing exactly as you have described, lookiing up the Emotiva web site and making a few simple calculations.
On the warranty subject, I have never been really all that concerned. I'm more than capable of swapping circuit boards which is pretty much all that warranty entails these days. Even if I wasn't capable there are plenty of electronic repair shops that would do it for me for a very low cost since Emotiva would supply the parts.
Merry Xmas to all
Gary
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 24, 2017 15:24:44 GMT -5
Probably not as these internation people are not direct Emotive companies. They are third parties who have to pay to ship the product to their locations, pay import duties/taxes and pay for warehousing/office space. In other words they have expenses and they need to make a profit selling the gear in their countries. If it makes you feel better the extra money is going for something. If the Rotel is cheaper go with the Rotel. I am fairly certain they are made by Jade Design also. What you are describing is exactly what Dan said wouldn't be the case. ie; that local margin (cost covering) was allowed for in Emotiva's pricing structure. FWIW there is no import duty to Australia as we have a free trade agreement with the US. Merry Xmas to all Gary |
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dolby
Minor Hero
Posts: 62
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Post by dolby on Dec 24, 2017 16:48:05 GMT -5
Probably not as these internation people are not direct Emotive companies. They are third parties who have to pay to ship the product to their locations, pay import duties/taxes and pay for warehousing/office space. In other words they have expenses and they need to make a profit selling the gear in their countries. If it makes you feel better the extra money is going for something. If the Rotel is cheaper go with the Rotel. I am fairly certain they are made by Jade Design also. I'm pretty sure they're not just third party as they're listed on the site as official international dealers. It really makes no sense to have them though (unless they have some other huge value add) as I can also click 'Buy Now' on the site and pay the same retail/shipping/duties - and save a chunk. If I convert back, the $2,500 XMC comes to $3,500 landed if done via the site - or $5,500 if through an international dealer. $2,000 extra profit is significant ... Do they add any value? Is there any point in having them? Maybe Emotiva should just keep direct like they used to |
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Post by adaboy on Dec 24, 2017 17:14:00 GMT -5
Probably not as these internation people are not direct Emotive companies. They are third parties who have to pay to ship the product to their locations, pay import duties/taxes and pay for warehousing/office space. In other words they have expenses and they need to make a profit selling the gear in their countries. If it makes you feel better the extra money is going for something. If the Rotel is cheaper go with the Rotel. I am fairly certain they are made by Jade Design also. I'm pretty sure they're not just third party as they're listed on the site as official international dealers. It really makes no sense to have them though (unless they have some other huge value add) as I can also click 'Buy Now' on the site and pay the same retail/shipping/duties - and save a chunk. If I convert back, the $2,500 XMC comes to $3,500 landed if done via the site - or $5,500 if through an international dealer. $2,000 extra profit is significant ... Do they add any value? Is there any point in having them? Maybe Emotiva should just keep direct like they used to Ouch! Highway er Waterway Robbery! |
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Post by sahmen on Dec 24, 2017 18:07:48 GMT -5
What happens if you have a trusted friend or acquaintance in the US purchase one for you here, and then send it down to South Africa as part of a hypothetical passenger's luggage, in which case it can even pass for the passenger's used property? Will that eliminate the taxes and duties?
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 24, 2017 18:17:22 GMT -5
What happens if you have a trusted friend or acquaintance in the US purchase one for you here, and then send it down to South Africa as part of a hypothetical passenger's luggage, in which case it can even pass for the passenger's used property? Will that eliminate the taxes and duties? It's not taxes (10%) and duties (0%) that are an issue, well not for Aussies anyway. Sure there are ways around the problem, for example using a reshipper these days is a painless process and I have plenty of friends in the US. But that's just avoiding the real issue, Emotiva have changed their pricing policy and only they know whether it's been a good or bad move for them, but I can say without doubt it's been bad for me and any of the previous Emotiva Local customers that I speak to. And we are voting with our wallets accordingly. Merry Xmas Gary |
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Post by saarg on Dec 25, 2017 14:03:11 GMT -5
On the warranty subject, I have never been really all that concerned. I'm more than capable of swapping circuit boards which is pretty much all that warranty entails these days. Even if I wasn't capable there are plenty of electronic repair shops that would do it for me for a very low cost since Emotiva would supply the parts. Merry Xmas to all Gary They do not supply you with parts anymore. They changed their policy some time ago. I had to send back my XMC-1 to the states to change the Front Panel. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 25, 2017 14:30:25 GMT -5
On the warranty subject, I have never been really all that concerned. I'm more than capable of swapping circuit boards which is pretty much all that warranty entails these days. Even if I wasn't capable there are plenty of electronic repair shops that would do it for me for a very low cost since Emotiva would supply the parts. They do not supply you with parts anymore. They changed their policy some time ago. I had to send back my XMC-1 to the states to change the Front Panel. I imagine that the front panel on an XMC-1 is a pretty complex piece to fit, one that may well involve re programming. Hence they want it back to do the servicing and/or it maybe an XMC-1 only requirement. Fortunately I don't have a need for any parts right now so I can't really test it out on all products. Happy New Year to All Gary |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 25, 2017 16:34:53 GMT -5
Currently in Australia the XMC-1 in non 4K with no Atmos/DTSX is priced at $A3,999 whilst the Anthem AVM60 with 4K and Atmos/DTSX is $A3,499. Now let's compare that with the US where the AVM60 is $US2,999 ie; an additional $500 covers the exchange rate, GST, freight, distributor and retailer margin. Whilst the XMC-1 adds twice that (ie; $1,000) whilst having an inferior specification.
Maybe I've been out in the sun too long, but that just doesn't seem logical to me.
Happy New Year to Alll
Gary
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Post by brubacca on Dec 25, 2017 18:52:18 GMT -5
Currently in Australia the XMC-1 in non 4K with no Atmos/DTSX is priced at $A3,999 whilst the Anthem AVM60 with 4K and Atmos/DTSX is $A3,499. Now let's compare that with the US where the AVM60 is $US2,999 ie; an additional $500 covers the exchange rate, GST, freight, distributor and retailer margin. Whilst the XMC-1 adds twice that (ie; $1,000) whilst having an inferior specification. Maybe I've been out in the sun too long, but that just doesn't seem logical to me. Happy New Year to Alll Gary In your situation I'd buy the Anthem every time. |
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dolby
Minor Hero
Posts: 62
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Post by dolby on Dec 26, 2017 1:54:10 GMT -5
Currently in Australia the XMC-1 in non 4K with no Atmos/DTSX is priced at $A3,999 Is that through the official dealer, or direct through the site? Emotiva went from a direct model only, to having an optional (expensive) channel. Lucky there is still direct - but what happens if they change one day to only through channel? I'm also wondering if this channel option works anywhere in the world and it's just really far out areas? |
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 26, 2017 4:09:47 GMT -5
Currently in Australia the XMC-1 in non 4K with no Atmos/DTSX is priced at $A3,999 Is that through the official dealer, or direct through the site? Emotiva went from a direct model only, to having an optional (expensive) channel. Lucky there is still direct - but what happens if they change one day to only through channel? I'm also wondering if this channel option works anywhere in the world and it's just really far out areas? If I try and log into the Emotiva US web site from Australia it automatically transfers me to the Australian Distributor's web site. If I use a US proxy server to log into the Emotiva web site then it doesn't redirect me, but as soon as I try and enter an Australian address for delivery it rejects my order. If I use a US address then it will accept my order, which is understandable since that is the dual supply policy as described when the Distributor model was announced. I have enough friends in the US plus a reliable and cost effective reshipper that I use, but that's not really the point. The fact is Emotiva is currently adding double (to the US price) than what Anthem are. Plus charging more for an inferior spec'd product. This is not a new situation, the AVM60 has been available for over 9 months. It's all very well for us to say that Marantz has the superior (to Emotiva) resources to have introduced the 7703 over a year ago and now the 7704, but Anthem, seriously  Happy New Year to All Gary |
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Post by Soup on Dec 26, 2017 5:39:54 GMT -5
Currently in Australia the XMC-1 in non 4K with no Atmos/DTSX is priced at $A3,999 whilst the Anthem AVM60 with 4K and Atmos/DTSX is $A3,499. Now let's compare that with the US where the AVM60 is $US2,999 ie; an additional $500 covers the exchange rate, GST, freight, distributor and retailer margin. Whilst the XMC-1 adds twice that (ie; $1,000) whilst having an inferior specification. Maybe I've been out in the sun too long, but that just doesn't seem logical to me. Happy New Year to Alll Gary In your situation I'd buy the Anthem every time. 2nd Vote for Anthem. My mrx 510 has been running flawlessly.................... |
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Post by saarg on Dec 26, 2017 17:22:26 GMT -5
They do not supply you with parts anymore. They changed their policy some time ago. I had to send back my XMC-1 to the states to change the Front Panel. I imagine that the front panel on an XMC-1 is a pretty complex piece to fit, one that may well involve re programming. Hence they want it back to do the servicing and/or it maybe an XMC-1 only requirement. Fortunately I don't have a need for any parts right now so I can't really test it out on all products. Happy New Year to All Gary I mentioned to them that they sent parts before and the answer I got was that the policy has been changed. I believe they are honest enough to say if they don't want to send the parts if it's too complicated to change. They did send me a flat cable though  |
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dolby
Minor Hero
Posts: 62
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Post by dolby on Jan 6, 2018 10:21:21 GMT -5
I think if they start redirecting to our local distributor, they as well count South Africa out.
I can't see (m)any people paying $5.5k for a $2.5k item just to get a warranty.
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Post by grubenstadt on Feb 13, 2018 21:34:47 GMT -5
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Post by Gary Cook on Feb 14, 2018 0:57:07 GMT -5
The maths if I bought one direct from Emotiva; $US229 = $A286 (at today's exchange rate) Freight = $A80 (based on dimensions) Total = $A366 (there is no duty or GST for personal import as it's under $A1,000) Compared to the local distributor price $A520 (ie 42% more) I wonder how many BasX A-100's they are selling in Australia? Not many I'd guess? Cheers Gary |
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Timster
Sensei
Posting from Scarsdale, Vic, Australia
Posts: 140
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Post by Timster on Feb 14, 2018 5:06:51 GMT -5
@ Gary Cook
... and even if the rules change for the < $1000 GST here in Aus, it would still only add in your math around $28.60 to the total
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