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Post by petew on Jan 23, 2018 20:32:00 GMT -5
yes please tell us your entire setup including speakers. the a100 is also a decent speaker amp at least as good as most avrs See my response above. Thanks for all the help. This stuff is remarkably confusing to me for some reason. It's confusing because it's a PITA. If you ditch the AVR you need to be sure all your sources can send two channel PCM to the DAC through the HDMI switch in the Samsung TV. The TV will need to downconvert multichannel audio to two channel PCM and pump it out the toslink port (optical) since audio DACs don't know what to do with a Dolby Digital or DTS bitstream. Your source devices may be able to do the conversion upstream of the TV. I think a TA-100 might be just the ticket. - Toslink for the TV connected sources
- Phono input
- USB DAC for future streamer computer
- Bluetooth for the phone and eye pad
- extra COAX digital in
- two extra stereo analog inputs
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Post by torifile on Jan 23, 2018 20:32:40 GMT -5
The DC-2 sounds interesting. Let’s explore the PT-100 option a bit. Would you pair it with the A-300 for the speakers? If I were sticking to a tight budget, I would indeed. If budget were not limited, I'd go a bit higher up. What kind of speakers do you have? (Sorry if I missed that...) Mark KEF Q100 bookshelf speakers. Budget isn’t too much of a concern but I always prefer to spend less if possible.  What would be a “bit higher up”? Keep in mind that between my AVR and the Lyr 2, I’ve already sunk about $1k in that I could easily recoup. |
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Post by torifile on Jan 23, 2018 20:39:23 GMT -5
See my response above. Thanks for all the help. This stuff is remarkably confusing to me for some reason. It's confusing because it's a PITA. If you ditch the AVR you need to be sure all your sources can send two channel PCM to the DAC through the HDMI switch in the Samsung TV. The TV will need to downconvert multichannel audio to two channel PCM and pump it out the toslink port (optical) since audio DACs don't know what to do with a Dolby Digital or DTS bitstream. Your source devices may be able to do the conversion upstream of the TV. I think a TA-100 might be just the ticket. - Toslink for the TV connected sources
- Phono input
- USB DAC for future streamer computer
- Bluetooth for the phone and eye pad
- extra COAX digital in
- two extra stereo analog inputs
I hate Bluetooth with a passion so I’d prefer to avoid it. Do you know if the USB-in supports iPhone playback? I greatly prefer using my iPhone for music than any of my other sources right now. I’m pretty sure that my devices will be fine going optical out. I know at least the PS4 and AppleTV will be fine with it. |
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Post by garbulky on Jan 23, 2018 20:52:40 GMT -5
The main issue is whether your sources can somehow transmit the digital signal to the DAC. A DAC that's not an AVR tends NOT to have HDMI. So whether all your digital sources that have HDMI can transmit the digital signal to your tv and from there through the tv optical output to your DAC is the big question. If your sources have another digital output that's usually quite helpful. If they don't you have to figure out if they can go through your tv's optical output to the DAC.
THe PT-100 I believe has a vinyl input. It's a nice unit. The DC-1 is a bit better than the PT-100 but without a vinyl input. It's also not IMMENSELY better. Having heard the KEF LS50, I don't think you'd hear a difference with your current speakers. Though you may hear a difference with your HD660's which are REALLY good with an A-100.
However the PT-100 it has an analog input which you can connect a phono preamp to. The PT-100 will usually sound better than an AVR.
As long as your digital sources can somehow make it to the PT-100 that's what matters.
The A-100 drove my Axiom M80 tower speakers satisfactorily. (Of course there's always better, which is why I have the significantly pricier XPA-1 gen 2. But what I'm saying is you won't be all miffed about not having enough power ).
Good luck! A PT100 or (DC-1+phono preamp) and a-100 amp honestly sounds great. Just make sure all your digital devices can make it to the PT100 somehow.
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Post by leonski on Jan 23, 2018 22:09:41 GMT -5
NO Reason whatsoever to go from the source, to the TV, OUT of the TV to a DAC than down the signal chain. Too many conversions not under your control.
And you can safely SKIP the AVR thing. 2 good speakers works well. And even in a headphone based system, speakers can come in handy.
Write down everything you HAVE NOW and try to mentally piece it together. Post the list here and people will help organize for you. If you have trouble visualizing,
I'll draw you a block diagram to get you started.
While the TA-100 is good, it is not an 'End Game' piece. Depending on the room and YOU and listening conditions, you might not be please with it or for more
than a short time period. Once the 'new' wears off? You may wish you'd gone in a different direction.
Start with your list. People LOVE recommending stuff they like. I even like some of it, but certainly Not All. Find a place you can HEAR stuff and ask questions of a sales Consultant, not
a hack guy looking to sell you the Latest Greatest.
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Post by torifile on Jan 23, 2018 23:10:51 GMT -5
NO Reason whatsoever to go from the source, to the TV, OUT of the TV to a DAC than down the signal chain. Too many conversions not under your control. And you can safely SKIP the AVR thing. 2 good speakers works well. And even in a headphone based system, speakers can come in handy. Write down everything you HAVE NOW and try to mentally piece it together. Post the list here and people will help organize for you. If you have trouble visualizing, I'll draw you a block diagram to get you started. While the TA-100 is good, it is not an 'End Game' piece. Depending on the room and YOU and listening conditions, you might not be please with it or for more than a short time period. Once the 'new' wears off? You may wish you'd gone in a different direction. Start with your list. People LOVE recommending stuff they like. I even like some of it, but certainly Not All. Find a place you can HEAR stuff and ask questions of a sales Consultant, not a hack guy looking to sell you the Latest Greatest. Fair enough. Here’s what my setup is right now: PS4/AppleTV/Switch/TT -(HDMI)> TV- (HDMI ARC)> Yamaha 7810 -> KEF Q100/Sennheiser 660s As I said, the 660s is being under-driven so I’ve got a Schiit Lyr 2 coming. This is where my confusion starts. How do I use the Lyr in this setup? The AVR has a pre-out but how I set it to be used when I want to use my headphones? Hence this thread because I think I’m overcomplicating this. My thought right now is to get something like a PT-100 as my DAC and A-100 as my amp. Optical cable from my tv to the PT-100 and RCA to the A-100. Yes? No? I know that people tend to recommend what they like but I’d ar least like to see what others are using/recommend. |
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Post by leonski on Jan 24, 2018 0:13:26 GMT -5
I would go over to HEADFI and check out the threads and maybe ask a few headphone questions. I see threads you should be at least checking into.
Some headphones ARE difficult loads, being low sensitivity, generally.
Note that with a SS amp, the power goes DOWN as the impedance RISES. The 660s are apparently 150ohm, which cuts into available SS power from a standard 'headphone jack'.
My GRADO on-ears are 32ohms and nearly 100db sensitive. Most any reasonable headphone amp does fine. My iPhone is OK, but not the ultimate.
I can see that you value headphone listening FAR above open air. Those KEFs are good, but s step down from the LS50 which is more expensive, but maybe nearly the same size.
The LYR has inputs AND outputs, so presumably you don't lose the input used to drive the Lyr.
You STILL need some kind of control piece, but not necessarily HDMI switching, which your TV can mediate, as long as everything else has audio outs which the control center can deal with.
I don't know squat from ARC on the HDMI circuit, but DO know that some TVs will output the audio on OPTICAL, which I sometimes take advantage of . My DAC, a Cambridge Audio DACMagicPlus
has several inputs of which one is from the PS3, one is from the TV while the TV receiver (Direct TV Optical) goes to my PREAMP which has a perfectly adequate DAC section for TV Audio. I run a USB from my music server TO the
DAC on USB and control with my phone.
Does the PS4 have an OPTICAL output for audio? Can you configure it for PCM only?
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Post by torifile on Jan 24, 2018 0:38:03 GMT -5
The PS4 has optical out that’s configurable but it’ll be running through the TV which I know can send audio over the optical cable. I asked over at head-fi and got some very non-helpful answers like “go vintage!” I can appreciate vintage but it’s not practical for this particular application.
I think the PT-100 and A-100 solution would work for me but I want to figure out how to use the Lyr in lieu of the A-100. I want something to power my headphones and something else to power my speakers. Is that even possible?
And, you’re right, the headphones piece is far more important to *me* (but not my family - they value ease of use above all else).
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Post by torifile on Jan 24, 2018 1:02:17 GMT -5
Another question I haven’t found the answer to: if I have my Lyr connected to the pre-outs on my AVR, how do my speakers get s signal?
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klinemj
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Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,088
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Post by klinemj on Jan 24, 2018 7:36:08 GMT -5
Let me take a step back now that I understand everything better...
It sounds like the main thing you want is a better headphone amp. You did mention in the original post that you were thinking of getting an integrated amp. Is that so you can listen louder to the KEF's? Or some other reason? If you are happy with the sound of your KEF's through the AVR for now and the main thing is the headphone amp - I'd lean a different direction than we've been steering you.
EDIT: I just noticed in an earlier post you said you have a small room and get plenty of volume from your AVR/KEF's. Also, you are trying to minimize # of devices. If you are - I'd lean to just getting a headphone amp and connecting it to your Zone 2 outs of your AVR. If it were me, I'd try the Emotiva BasX A100. At $229, it's a steal and it will power your Senn's w/o blinking. You can run your AVR zone 2 outs at fixed volume and use the A100's volume control. Before you go swapping out a lot of things you already have working the way you want - I'd just solve the headphone power issue and enjoy for a while.
Mark
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Post by torifile on Jan 24, 2018 7:44:26 GMT -5
Let me take a step back now that I understand everything better... It sounds like the main thing you want is a better headphone amp. You did mention in the original post that you were thinking of getting an integrated amp. Is that so you can listen louder to the KEF's? Or some other reason? If you are happy with the sound of your KEF's through the AVR for now and the main thing is the headphone amp - I'd lean a different direction than we've been steering you. Mark That’s correct. The KEFs sound great. The headphones don’t. In all other respects, I’m happy with the sound and functionality of my current setup. That said, I’m not averse to changing things if needed. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jan 24, 2018 7:47:55 GMT -5
Let me take a step back now that I understand everything better... It sounds like the main thing you want is a better headphone amp. You did mention in the original post that you were thinking of getting an integrated amp. Is that so you can listen louder to the KEF's? Or some other reason? If you are happy with the sound of your KEF's through the AVR for now and the main thing is the headphone amp - I'd lean a different direction than we've been steering you. Mark That’s correct. The KEFs sound great. The headphones don’t. In all other respects, I’m happy with the sound and functionality of my current setup. That said, I’m not averse to changing things if needed. See the edit I did just above... |
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Post by torifile on Jan 24, 2018 8:26:52 GMT -5
That’s correct. The KEFs sound great. The headphones don’t. In all other respects, I’m happy with the sound and functionality of my current setup. That said, I’m not averse to changing things if needed. See the edit I did just above... Your edit just clarified so much for me. The zone 2 thing was the missing piece, believe it or not. I’m going to try out both my Lyr and the A-100 and see which I prefer. Thanks for all the help! |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jan 24, 2018 8:38:30 GMT -5
See the edit I did just above... Your edit just clarified so much for me. The zone 2 thing was the missing piece, believe it or not. I’m going to try out both my Lyr and the A-100 and see which I prefer. Thanks for all the help! Glad to help! And, options are good...that is why I have a tube amp I can use for my fronts AND Class D monoblocks I can use. Both sound good - they are just different. Let us know what you think of the options! Mark |
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Post by torifile on Jan 25, 2018 0:09:57 GMT -5
My Lyr 2 arrived today. Hooking to zone 2 and fixing the volume solved my problems! The headphones sound great. I’m going to compare the Lyr to an A-100 in the next few weeks. Now that I have some grasp of how all this stuff fits together, it’s going to get fun. Thanks again for all the help, everyone!
BTW, I’m still thinking of replacing my receiver with something more audio focused. I’d rather put my money into a better phono stage, for example, than have 5 HDMI connections I’ll never use.
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Post by garbulky on Jan 25, 2018 2:03:28 GMT -5
I know somebody that preferred the a100 to the mjolnir! I think youll be pleased. The a100 has fixed outputs that can go in to your lyr.
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Post by torifile on Jan 25, 2018 7:43:46 GMT -5
I know somebody that preferred the a100 to the mjolnir! I think youll be pleased. The a100 has fixed outputs that can go in to your lyr. So the A-100 into the Lyr? Wouldn’t that be overkill? |
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Post by garbulky on Jan 25, 2018 8:42:32 GMT -5
I know somebody that preferred the a100 to the mjolnir! I think youll be pleased. The a100 has fixed outputs that can go in to your lyr. So the A-100 into the Lyr? Wouldn’t that be overkill? I would just use the a100 for both. It muted the speakers when you plug in the headphones. But if you want to use the lye I was saying you can. The a100 does both speakers and headphones well. |
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Post by creimes on Jan 25, 2018 12:58:59 GMT -5
I would have recommended the TA-100 in place of your Yamaha AVR, and it's too bad you got the headphone amp as I have two brand new in the box Nuforce HA-200 Class A amps for sale  Chad |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jan 25, 2018 16:06:08 GMT -5
I would also point out that the Lyr, being a tube based device, does add a distinct tube coloration to the audio passing through it.
The A-100, or any other solid state amp, will NOT impart this tube sound, and so will sound much more neutral, and more accurate to the original.
(Many folks, including myself prefer the neutral sound - but just be aware that it will sound distinctly different.)
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