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Post by nickwin on Mar 30, 2018 10:12:43 GMT -5
I do find it interesting that I have literally NEVER heard a bad thing about the sound of the SA250. In fact the feedback is almost universally glowing. There are also some interesting comments over on the Audiogon forum from user whitecamaross in this thread: forum.audiogon.com/discussions/my-long-list-of-amplifiers-and-my-personal-review-of-each/post?highlight=emotiva%2Bsa250&postid=1360623#1360623 This guy has done a shoot out with just about every high end solid state amp out there, krell, pass, parasound, ML, classe..., and had really good things to say: "EMOTIVA SA250: I was actually very impressed by this affordable amp. i connected my crazy expensive mcintosh c1100 to this amp and i really was amazed by how it handled my electrostatics. I could say that there were other amps that were far more expensive and yet they couldn’t hold a candle to this amp. It had plenty of everything and i really thought if this amp was made by someone else, they could charge 10 times more for it. " |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 30, 2018 10:49:07 GMT -5
Nobody (NOBODY) here's going to like this comment but... IMHO, the XPA-1L is the least reliable of all Emotiva products. I don't know why, nor would I care to speculate. i just mention it to inform this thread. I'm sure there will be an avalanche of posters saying how absolutely reliable their XPA-1Ls have been, but I think I see a higher percentage of them with problems on the used market than any other Emotiva amp. YMMV
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Post by pedrocols on Mar 30, 2018 10:57:30 GMT -5
Wouldn't be surprised if all these amps sound the same. In fact they should all sound the same.
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Post by nickwin on Mar 30, 2018 11:29:28 GMT -5
Wouldn't be surprised if all these amps sound the same. In fact they should all sound the same. All I can say is when I took the time to really compare them, level matched a-b, I found they absolutely do not sound the same to me. Not even close, it was easy to tell which amp was playing by the sound. Everyone can form there own opinion whether that was placebo or not but it’s an easy experiment to try on your own. Listen to some different headphones amps in decent headphones and it’s hard to ingnore the differences. Room acoustics can obscure the differences pretty easily. Amps can measure very different from one another in all kinds of metrics, why would they sound the same? |
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Post by nickwin on Mar 30, 2018 11:31:00 GMT -5
Nobody (NOBODY) here's going to like this comment but... IMHO, the XPA-1L is the least reliable of all Emotiva products. I don't know why, nor would I care to speculate. i just mention it to inform this thread. I'm sure there will be an avalanche of posters saying how absolutely reliable their XPA-1Ls have been, but I think I see a higher percentage of them with problems on the used market than any other Emotiva amp. YMMV FWIW I recently asked Emotiva about the sa250 vs xpa1l in general and they said both amps where “fairly” reliable but the sa250 slightly more so. They definitely ran hotter than any of my other Emotiva amps, even in class ab. |
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Post by DavidR on Mar 30, 2018 13:43:40 GMT -5
Wouldn't be surprised if all these amps sound the same. In fact they should all sound the same. They DO NOT |
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Post by DavidR on Mar 30, 2018 13:45:51 GMT -5
Nobody (NOBODY) here's going to like this comment but... IMHO, the XPA-1L is the least reliable of all Emotiva products. I don't know why, nor would I care to speculate. i just mention it to inform this thread. I'm sure there will be an avalanche of posters saying how absolutely reliable their XPA-1Ls have been, but I think I see a higher percentage of them with problems on the used market than any other Emotiva amp. YMMV My guess is because, as I've read, the XPA-1L amps run hot and heat kills electronics faster than just about anything - except lightning strikes. |
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Post by chicagorspec on Mar 30, 2018 14:38:49 GMT -5
Wouldn't be surprised if all these amps sound the same. In fact they should all sound the same. They DO NOT Yes, they do, when the rest of your system isn’t resolving enough to portray the differences. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Mar 30, 2018 14:43:04 GMT -5
Nobody (NOBODY) here's going to like this comment but... IMHO, the XPA-1L is the least reliable of all Emotiva products. I don't know why, nor would I care to speculate. i just mention it to inform this thread. I'm sure there will be an avalanche of posters saying how absolutely reliable their XPA-1Ls have been, but I think I see a higher percentage of them with problems on the used market than any other Emotiva amp. YMMV My guess is because, as I've read, the XPA-1L amps run hot and heat kills electronics faster than just about anything - except lightning strikes. My XPA-1L’s don’t run at any higher temperature in Class AB than my XPA-5 Gen 1, that’s measured at the heat sinks. I have also had an XPA-2 and an XPA-3 and they have all run around the same temperature. Of course the XPA-1L’s run hotter in Class A but that’s to be expected. My amps run for at least 6 hours every single day and I have had zero issues with any Emotiva power amp. Not so much as a blown fuse. I have serviced an XPA-1L but that was due to a faulty speaker cable that had an intermittent dead short. For a couple concerned by reliability rumours I have also checked over 4 others and found no issue. Having had the lid off 5 of them I have seen nothing that concerned me at all, so much so that I bought my XPA-1L’s after that. Cheers Gary |
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Post by novisnick on Mar 30, 2018 16:40:14 GMT -5
Ibe owned two sets of XPA-1L’s and Ive never had a problem with any of them. I did have remorse after selling the first set but I remedied that promptly. These do sound significantly better then any multichannel SS amp ive owned.
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Post by chicagorspec on Mar 30, 2018 20:51:09 GMT -5
Nobody (NOBODY) here's going to like this comment but... IMHO, the XPA-1L is the least reliable of all Emotiva products. Now that’s saying something. |
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Post by pedrocols on Mar 30, 2018 23:12:31 GMT -5
Nobody (NOBODY) here's going to like this comment but... IMHO, the XPA-1L is the least reliable of all Emotiva products. Now that’s saying something. Well if you just have these amps for just a few years and don't use them much they can potentially last for very long time. The XPA-1L amp came out not that long ago so personally I would expect them to be trouble free in the little time that they been out. |
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Post by pedrocols on Mar 30, 2018 23:19:45 GMT -5
Yes, they do, when the rest of your system isn’t resolving enough to portray the differences. Exactly my point. Even if the system is up to par they should sound the same. I would argue that they can potentially sound just different without one sounding "better" than the other. Just different and is up to your ears and not your system to help you decide which one you like best. |
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Post by DavidR on Mar 31, 2018 10:02:21 GMT -5
I can hear the differences and even have to attenuate the speakers accordingly. Change the Pre and you change the sound of the amp.
I've been thru lots of amps and could always hear differences. Most of the Carver amps I've had were designed to sound different.
If all amps sound the same why are there so many audio manufacturers and models within?
I should have know better than to get into such a silly topic.
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Post by chicagorspec on Mar 31, 2018 10:33:19 GMT -5
Now that’s saying something. Well if you just have these amps for just a few years and don't use them much they can potentially last for very long time. The XPA-1L amp came out not that long ago so personally I would expect them to be trouble free in the little time that they been out. Potential and expectation is great...until you own something. I would have "expected" the same thing from my SA-250, before it made four trips to Franklin for the same issue. |
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Post by garbulky on Mar 31, 2018 14:24:54 GMT -5
So far my Emotiva gear has been rock solid. Emotiva has been pretty good about repairs or making it right. I have heard two reports from people I trust about their Emotiva gear failing, one was a DOA for a XPA gen 3, and the other was a used well cared for gear which simply fried under what may have been a tough load (an XPA-1 L). However, an important part of the sale is the transfer of warranty which has to happen on the sellers side which is sometimes hard to make happen.
I hope you get your amp sorted out.
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Post by leonski on Mar 31, 2018 15:55:18 GMT -5
I can hear the differences and even have to attenuate the speakers accordingly. Change the Pre and you change the sound of the amp. I've been thru lots of amps and could always hear differences. Most of the Carver amps I've had were designed to sound different. If all amps sound the same why are there so many audio manufacturers and models within? I should have know better than to get into such a silly topic. Carver 'T-Mod' amps were designed to sound LIKE the target amp. Some model of Conrad Johnson, IIRC. Bob used a 'nulling' technique to achieve his goal. As for sounding different? Sure. All amps differ in their ability to drive various reactive loads. While they can measure nearly the same into a resistor. If you REALLY have difficult speakers, I'd expect that fact to show up differences in amplifiers more than bench test data would indicate. |
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Post by chicagorspec on Mar 31, 2018 16:00:21 GMT -5
Thanks, Garbulky. I’m glad you’ve had good luck. I got fed up and sold it to Stiehl11 for $500. History was fully disclosed and remaining 2-1/2 years warranty transferred. He came to my house to see and hear it before paying, and living near Franklin he was the perfect purchaser, being within easy driving distance of Emotiva if it has further trouble. I do hope it gives him many years of enjoyable service.
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Post by nickwin on Apr 1, 2018 8:53:00 GMT -5
My guess is because, as I've read, the XPA-1L amps run hot and heat kills electronics faster than just about anything - except lightning strikes. My XPA-1L’s don’t run at any higher temperature in Class AB than my XPA-5 Gen 1, that’s measured at the heat sinks. I have also had an XPA-2 and an XPA-3 and they have all run around the same temperature. Of course the XPA-1L’s run hotter in Class A but that’s to be expected. Cheers Gary Really? This is very different than my experience. What kind of temps are you seeing? My XPA5 literally stays cold unless I drive it hard for ~20 min and then it barely warms to the touch. This is driving 80db/watt speakers. The XPA1Ls I had were idling well over 100 and went up from there fast when driven hard. |
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Post by nickwin on Apr 1, 2018 8:59:38 GMT -5
I can hear the differences and even have to attenuate the speakers accordingly. Change the Pre and you change the sound of the amp. I've been thru lots of amps and could always hear differences. Most of the Carver amps I've had were designed to sound different. If all amps sound the same why are there so many audio manufacturers and models within? I should have know better than to get into such a silly topic. Carver 'T-Mod' amps were designed to sound LIKE the target amp. Some model of Conrad Johnson, IIRC. Bob used a 'nulling' technique to achieve his goal. As for sounding different? Sure. All amps differ in their ability to drive various reactive loads. While they can measure nearly the same into a resistor.
If you REALLY have difficult speakers, I'd expect that fact to show up differences in amplifiers more than bench test data would indicate. Can you elaborate on this? I agree its possible to two amps to measure very similarly, but most don't and many measure completely different from one another, even within there rated power. Differing levels of noise, distortion, crosstalk, roll off at both frequency extremes, ringing in an impulse response and the big one IMO, different distortion profiles (spectrum), in other words the distortion that is present can be composed of different harmonics. Different harmonic profiles are one of the main reasons tubes sound different than solid state and different solid state amps can can vary in the same way, just to a lesser degree generally. Measurements show differences, there is plenty of psycho-acoustical research out there on how humans perceive these differences, and my ears tell me there are big differences. I struggle to understand how when you put that all together you come to the conclusion that they must sound the same until pushed beyond there limits. |
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