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Post by westom on May 16, 2018 9:36:16 GMT -5
I'm sure westom disagrees with at least some of what keith wrote. Most all have no idea that best protection is installed on all phone lines - for free. As required by codes, industry standards, and even the FCC. Surges did not enter on phone lines. Most surges were incoming (to all appliances) on AC mains. Any discussion must discuss both the incoming and outgoing paths. Outgoing path is obvious. Phone lines already have properly earthed 'whole house' protection. So damage is on the modem's outgoing path - its phone line. We literally replaced semiconductors to fully restore modems. Others have woefully insufficient knowledge to do that. A modem's off-hook relay was rated for less than 500 volts (a critically relevant number for reasons that will not be discussed). Especially if using a plug-in protector, then a surge was connected directly into a modem's ground pins. Surge is directly connected to a PNP transistor that drives an off-hook relay. Surge passed through that off-hook relay. Then surge connected to earth via an 'always installed for free' protector. Some (leonski), who only want to argue, would not learn any of this. Surge was incoming on AC mains. At the exact same time, surge was outgoing via phone line. Because phone lines always had properly earthed protection. Sometimes damaged by an AC mains surge were resistors for the modem's phone line. But the most damage was that PNP transistor. Modem damaged because uninformed consumers did not properly earth a 'whole house' protector. Then some, who did not first learn how surges do damage, used speculation to assume an already well protected phone line somehow was an incoming surge path. Damage is often on the outgoing path; not on an incoming path. But that does not promote scam protectors to naive consumers. Surge incoming on AC mains often destroyed modems. Because phone lines already had and still have best protection installed for free. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on May 16, 2018 11:53:11 GMT -5
I'm sorry, but you are NOT technically correct about how series mode surge suppressors work. First off, in an inductor, saturation is an electrical characteristic and not a failure mode. An inductor saturates when the magnetic field in the core simply reaches the maximum level the core can sustain and, when that happens, the inductance drops. However, the magnetic field in an inductor is related to the current passing through it. Therefore, since the surge is blocked by the inductor, and so never passes through it, it never causes the inductor to saturate. (The inductor continues to carry the normal amount of current it is rated to carry.) The only way the inductor would fail would be if its insulation rating was exceeded.... (in practice, the insulation in your home would fail long before that) If the high voltage were to persist for a a very long time, eventually the current through the inductor would rise, causing it to saturate - but that is not the nature of typical line surges. (Ordinary saturation is also non-destructive... and so would never actually damage the inductor.) As I mentioned in another post, the power system is in fact a system... and the power grid itself has major shunt suppressors that shunt most of the current of a lightning strike to ground. What remains is a residual voltage spike caused by the voltage drop across those big shunt suppressors. All a home protection device needs to do is to prevent this residual spike that remains from affecting the appliances inside your home. To do this, all it needs to do is to block this residual voltage from being applied to your equipment. Allowing that voltage spike to generate a current surge through the load, then shunting that current surge to ground, is both unnecessary and wasteful. Incidentally, the BrickWall products (and I assume the Surgex ones as well) do in fact have a ground connection. They use secondary current shunts to shunt the small amount of residual current that makes it through the primary inductor to ground... However, this only entails a small amount of current, which is why they make a major point of "not dumping a huge amount of current through your ground connection". To your question of: "Where do those thousands of joules of energy get safely dissipated?" The snappy answer is: "Not inside your house, or your equipment, so who cares?" The complete answer is: "Elsewhere in the system, in the shunt surge suppressors built into the power grid". And, no, if you had your own generator, and weren't connected to the power grid, and your wiring suffered a lightning strike, a series mode surge suppressor would do very little good (at least not unless it was used in conjunction with a shunt suppressor). However, for systems connected to the power grid, they work quite well.... and are very common in large critical commercial applications. (And, if you do actually read the specifications, you will find that they're quite impressive... and meet some very high level reliability certifications as well.) Incidentally.... Westom makes an excellent point about phones and phone lines. Unfortunately, however, while cable systems are supposed to also be well protected, they are also notorious for various problems like loose ground lugs and excessive long thin ground wires (at least in some neighborhoods). Likewise, while satellite dishes should, by specification, be well protected, not all installations are properly done, and many become less safe as they age. (Unfortunately, a power line surge protector won't protect you from that.) Here's a link to the ratings for the $279 BrickWall model..... www.brickwall.com/collections/surge-protectors-home-theater-hdtv/products/eight-outlet-audio-surge-protectorAnd I wonder if they could make a whole-house version? Again, first learn what it does. It is only a series mode filter - designed to block noise. Using its specification numbers, it will 'absorb' only about 600 joules. A near zero protector. Inductors have a completely different failure mode. Saturation. Once the inductor saturates (ie on a 700 joule surge), then it become electrically similar to a wire. It does not fail catastrophically. Saturation means a surge simply goes right through without any obstruction. Anyone who thinks a protector works by 'blocking' or 'absorbing' a surge is ripe to be scammed. No effective protector does that. So again, how does 'absorbing' 600 joules protect from a hundreds of thousands of joule surge? How does its many centimeter electrical parts 'block' what three kilometers of sky cannot? At what point does one first read specification numbers before endorsing a product? leonski neer does that. He promotes subjectively - also called junk science. Meanwhile a safety ground wire completely bypasses even that series mode protection. Why is that fault ignored? Brickwall, Zerosurge, and Surgex sell series mode filters. These heavy products are designed as noise filters. But massive profits can be obtained by hyping them to naive consumers as surge protectors. Read spec numbers. A tiny surge, that it might protect from, is also made irrelevant by protection already inside electronics. Why does anyone know it is ineffective? Protection always answers this question. Where do hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate? Effective protector always has a low impedance (ie less than 3 meter) connection to single point earth ground. Protector does not do protection. Protector is only a connecting device to what does protection. Brickwall has no earth ground and will not even discuss any grounds - earth or safety. That market is naive consumers easily manipulated by hearsay - and by ignoring spec numbers. No reason to make a 'whole house' version. Profits are much larger this way. They are not marketing to consumers who ask for protection. They are marketing a highly profitable myth. |
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Post by leonski on May 16, 2018 14:49:59 GMT -5
From Keith:
"Incidentally....
Westom makes an excellent point about phones and phone lines.
Unfortunately, however, while cable systems are supposed to also be well protected, they are also notorious for various problems like loose ground lugs and excessive long thin ground wires (at least in some neighborhoods).
Likewise, while satellite dishes should, by specification, be well protected, not all installations are properly done, and many become less safe as they age.
(Unfortunately, a power line surge protector won't protect you from that.)"
My Panamax has both RJ45 and F connectors, so I can use it to help protect from phone and 'small dish' problems. By the time I used ALL the plugs and connectors on the Panamax, I'd have a bundle of wire the size of my thigh....
Now that I think back, I've been round this block with westom before with similar results. He 'knows' and everyone else is either mistaken or in error. I'll continue my use of a high-end 'point of use' at my computer and stereo. And note that were I to live in a
high lightning 'zone', I'd for certain add some kind of a whole-house solution....at the box, next to the ground rod. *
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wvu80
Minor Hero
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Post by wvu80 on May 16, 2018 17:42:26 GMT -5
Sorry guys, I need to hijack my thread back for a few minutes.  +++ I got my cable from teaman today (thanks Tim!). I installed it, changed my settings in the Onk 717 to Zone 2 active, and no luck, no auto on from the 12v trigger. Allow me to briefly review: Both the Onk and the Emo were clearly marked for the 12v Trigger out which must be Zone 2 on the Onk. Cable: M-M 3.5 mm, about a foot long, two black rings on the plug. It might be Stereo or Mono, I'm not sure. Onk 717: The 12v trigger out only works for Zone 2 and Zone 3. Works fine with the XPA-5 plugged in. Plenty of sound as expected. I went into the Onk menu and made sure Zone 2 was ON. That didn't work so I also enabled Zone 3 both at the same time, still no trigger to the Emo. I completely reset the Onk on/off a couple of times. Nothing changed, works fine as a pre/pro w/ the Emo physically turned on. I tried turning the volume up and down on the Onk to get more signal. That didn't work. When I turn the Onk OFF it does not affect the Emo, light stays blue. XPA-5 - Works great. Now plugged into an unswitched outlet, the standby Orange light comes on. A touch of the button turns the light blue and everything works fine. I reset the Emo putting it into standby, and later by turning the switch on the back completely off, no light. Switch back on goes to Orange, touch the button and goes to blue. Outlet: Both AVR and Emo plugged into a strip with the outlet ALWAYS ON. (not switched) Source: Windows 10 computer running Youtube, Berstein's Jeremiah Symphony. Plenty of sound when running both Onk and Emo when both physically switched on. Speakers: Running 3.1 on Zone 1. No speakers hooked to Zone 2 or Zone 3. Suggestions on the problem? Suggestions for trouble shooting? |
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Post by novisnick on May 16, 2018 18:36:07 GMT -5
Have you done a factory reset of the AVR? Not just an off/on or unplugged?
Go to the Onk website and see if theres an update for your AVR?
I had a similar problem with my UMC-200 , zones 2&3 worked fine for the trigger but no main zone trigger. I did a factory reset, works fine now.
Good luck
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Post by davidl81 on May 16, 2018 19:43:56 GMT -5
Sorry guys, I need to hijack my thread back for a few minutes. +++ I got my cable from teaman today (thanks Tim!). I installed it, changed my settings in the Onk 717 to Zone 2 active, and no luck, no auto on from the 12v trigger. Allow me to briefly review: Both the Onk and the Emo were clearly marked for the 12v Trigger out which must be Zone 2 on the Onk. Cable: M-M 3.5 mm, about a foot long, two black rings on the plug. It might be Stereo or Mono, I'm not sure. Onk 717: The 12v trigger out only works for Zone 2 and Zone 3. Works fine with the XPA-5 plugged in. Plenty of sound as expected. I went into the Onk menu and made sure Zone 2 was ON. That didn't work so I also enabled Zone 3 both at the same time, still no trigger to the Emo. I completely reset the Onk on/off a couple of times. Nothing changed, works fine as a pre/pro w/ the Emo physically turned on. I tried turning the volume up and down on the Onk to get more signal. That didn't work. When I turn the Onk OFF it does not affect the Emo, light stays blue. XPA-5 - Works great. Now plugged into an unswitched outlet, the standby Orange light comes on. A touch of the button turns the light blue and everything works fine. I reset the Emo putting it into standby, and later by turning the switch on the back completely off, no light. Switch back on goes to Orange, touch the button and goes to blue. Outlet: Both AVR and Emo plugged into a strip with the outlet ALWAYS ON. (not switched) Source: Windows 10 computer running Youtube, Berstein's Jeremiah Symphony. Plenty of sound when running both Onk and Emo when both physically switched on. Speakers: Running 3.1 on Zone 1. No speakers hooked to Zone 2 or Zone 3. Suggestions on the problem? Suggestions for trouble shooting? Just to verify you are going from the 12v out on the only to the 12v “input” on the XPA-5? I ask because the xpa has both an input and an output. The output is used if you are running another amp besides the xpa-5 |
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Post by teaman on May 16, 2018 20:31:33 GMT -5
Dang Dave, I was hoping that was going to solve your problem. I would try a factory reset like Nick mentioned, I honestly have no idea outside of that to curing this Onkyo illness....lol
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wvu80
Minor Hero
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Post by wvu80 on May 16, 2018 21:32:16 GMT -5
Just to verify you are going from the 12v out on the only to the 12v “input” on the XPA-5? I ask because the xpa has both an input and an output. The output is used if you are running another amp besides the xpa-5 I have the XPA-5 gen 1. Looking from the back it only has a line in on the left, which I plugged into, quite by accident.
What is interesting is even with the AVR turned off (standby) the mere act of plugging in the cable on the Emo turns it from orange to blue. Unplugging it turns the amp from blue to orange. This works from the AVR side and the Emo side.
I'm not sure what to make of that, but something is happening.
I'll try the Onk complete reset next. Goodby, all my settings. I guess it's worth it in the name of science. 
Edit: No go on the Onk factory reset. That was actually a pretty good shot. I run my Onk in 3.1 and the reset activated all the other speaker channels, including the surround channels to which Zone 2 outputs would be routed. I'll do some more checking on my settings to make sure all is well. I have already reviewed the Onk 717 manual but it was non-specific about how the 12v Trigger works, just that Zone 2 needs to be enabled.
I will add some speakers to Zone 2 and test that next.
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Post by westom on May 16, 2018 22:43:46 GMT -5
Unfortunately, however, while cable systems are supposed to also be well protected, they are also notorious for various problems like loose ground lugs and excessive long thin ground wires (at least in some neighborhoods). Likewise, while satellite dishes should, by specification, be well protected, not all installations are properly done, and many become less safe as they age. Problem is not limited there. Copper thieves will steal what makes the so critical 'primary' protection layer so effective. All are reasons why a homeowner is responsible for both providing and maintaining those earth ground connections. Because protection is only defined by the quality of and low impedance connection to earth ground. One cannot have and maintain effective protection if one does not know what to inspect. If high-end 'point of use' protectors exist, then a manufacturer specification number defines it. Most 'high end' protectors exist only because that manufacturer has spent massively on advertising. High end protectors selling for $85 are electrically equivalent to one selling for $10 in Walmart - once specification numbers are discussed. A 'high end' Monster, for example, is simply a $3 power strip with expensive paint and ten cent protector parts. A real 'high end' product defines where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. |
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Post by RichGuy on May 17, 2018 0:28:31 GMT -5
A real 'high end' product defines where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. And a flak jacket does nothing to protect against a direct head shot or many forms of artillery but it serves its purpose and does well to protect for what it was designed. There are different forms and types of protection for different purposes, surge protection is to help protect your equipment against surges and spikes it's in no way ever intended to protect against "hundreds of thousands of joules" which can be caused by a lightning strike, for this you definitely need your home protected with a path to ground capable of this much dissipation. However the surge protector can help to protect your expensive gear from the potentially accompanying spike, although lightning really isn't its main protection at all but mostly power spikes from within the power system itself. |
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Post by leonski on May 17, 2018 2:08:40 GMT -5
A real 'high end' product defines where hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly dissipate. And a flak jacket does nothing to protect against a direct head shot or many forms of artillery but it serves its purpose and does well to protect for what it was designed. There are different forms and types of protection for different purposes, surge protection is to help protect your equipment against surges and spikes it's in no way ever intended to protect against "hundreds of thousands of joules" which can be caused by a lightning strike, for this you definitely need your home protected with a path to ground capable of this much dissipation. However the surge protector can help to protect your expensive gear from the potentially accompanying spike, although lightning really isn't its main protection at all but mostly power spikes from within the power system itself. From our FWIW department: My Panamax will shut off all outlets IF voltage exceeds 135vac or drops below 95vac. It's done this 3 times in about a decade of ownership. 2 times were within the last 6 weeks when a call to the power company resulted in them telling me of some repairs going on which MIGHT cause spikes. Transformer replacement, at least some of the larger, in-ground types can take a day and result in local interuptions. I shut off a lot of stuff around my house and pulled all the plugs to my stereo and computers. |
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Post by millst on May 17, 2018 10:08:28 GMT -5
Sorry guys, I need to hijack my thread back for a few minutes. +++ Suggestions on the problem? Suggestions for trouble shooting? That’s why I asked them to go elsewhere...now we have to sift through two conversations to help you. 1 You are turning on z2 by pressing “zone 2” twice or once then a source? 2 Connecting speakers or changing volume probably won’t do anything. It’s tied to z2 being on/off per manual. 3 Connecting cables with things plugged in / on isn’t really recommended. It can cause damage. You’re probably shorting something briefly...causing the amp to turn on. 4 That cable is stereo. You could try a mono cable, one black ring. Stereo have usually worked for me, however. 5 You could use a voltmeter to confirm you’re getting 12v from the 717. 6 Is z2 enabled in the menu under speaker config? -tm |
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,256
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Post by KeithL on May 17, 2018 11:13:13 GMT -5
I should note that there are different sorts of power surges.....
Typically, when people talk about a surge from something like a lightning strike, they'e talking about a spike of several thousand volts for a few thousandths of a second.
This is the sort of surge most "surge suppressors", including MOV types and series mode types, are designed to protect against. It is almost certain that your Panamax uses relays to disconnect the power - and relays are FAR too slow to protect against this sort of voltage spike. However, your Panamax probably also has more conventional MOV protection against short spikes.
What you're talking about are more commonly referred to as "overages" and "sags".
In general, overages are more likely to damage older equipment, and things like refrigerators and air conditioners that have motors or compressors. Old style incandescent light bulbs are also sensitive to overages. Most modern equipment is somewhat tolerant of overages (and most equipment that runs on "from 100 VAC to 250 VAC" won't mind them at all). Sags are most likely to affect equipment with compressors or big motors (again refrigerators and air conditioners).
Overages and sags that last more than a few seconds are relatively uncommon on modern power grids.... (They are more likely in very rural areas where local power generation is used.)
And a flak jacket does nothing to protect against a direct head shot or many forms of artillery but it serves its purpose and does well to protect for what it was designed. There are different forms and types of protection for different purposes, surge protection is to help protect your equipment against surges and spikes it's in no way ever intended to protect against "hundreds of thousands of joules" which can be caused by a lightning strike, for this you definitely need your home protected with a path to ground capable of this much dissipation. However the surge protector can help to protect your expensive gear from the potentially accompanying spike, although lightning really isn't its main protection at all but mostly power spikes from within the power system itself. From our FWIW department: My Panamax will shut off all outlets IF voltage exceeds 135vac or drops below 95vac. It's done this 3 times in about a decade of ownership. 2 times were within the last 6 weeks when a call to the power company resulted in them telling me of some repairs going on which MIGHT cause spikes. Transformer replacement, at least some of the larger, in-ground types can take a day and result in local interuptions. I shut off a lot of stuff around my house and pulled all the plugs to my stereo and computers. |
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Post by westom on May 17, 2018 11:49:42 GMT -5
There are different forms and types of protection for different purposes, surge protection is to help protect your equipment against surges and spikes it's in no way ever intended to protect against "hundreds of thousands of joules" which can be caused by a lightning strike, for this you definitely need your home protected with a path to ground capable of this much dissipation. And it was stated repeatedly. Protection means hundreds of thousands of joules must dissipate somewhere. Properly earthed 'whole house' protection means hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate harmlessly outside. Then a surge or spike (also called lightning) is not inside hunting for earth ground destructively via appliances. Then superior protection already inside appliances is not overwhelmed. Facilities that cannot have damage even 100 years ago did and do this. Because an effective protector (which means protection from lightning and other such surges) always has a low impedance (ie hardwire not inside metallic conduit) connection to single point earth ground. Protectors never do protection. Effective protectors always have that low impedance connection to earth. Profit center protectors have no earth ground, do not claim to protect from typically destructive surges, fail on surges too tiny to damage appliances, and are promoted to consumers who all but want to be scammed. |
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Post by leonski on May 17, 2018 12:32:48 GMT -5
I should note that there are different sorts of power surges.....
Typically, when people talk about a surge from something like a lightning strike, they'e talking about a spike of several thousand volts for a few thousandths of a second.
This is the sort of surge most "surge suppressors", including MOV types and series mode types, are designed to protect against. It is almost certain that your Panamax uses relays to disconnect the power - and relays are FAR too slow to protect against this sort of voltage spike. However, your Panamax probably also has more conventional MOV protection against short spikes.
What you're talking about are more commonly referred to as "overages" and "sags".
In general, overages are more likely to damage older equipment, and things like refrigerators and air conditioners that have motors or compressors. Old style incandescent light bulbs are also sensitive to overages. Most modern equipment is somewhat tolerant of overages (and most equipment that runs on "from 100 VAC to 250 VAC" won't mind them at all). Sags are most likely to affect equipment with compressors or big motors (again refrigerators and air conditioners).
Overages and sags that last more than a few seconds are relatively uncommon on modern power grids.... (They are more likely in very rural areas where local power generation is used.)
From our FWIW department: My Panamax will shut off all outlets IF voltage exceeds 135vac or drops below 95vac. It's done this 3 times in about a decade of ownership. 2 times were within the last 6 weeks when a call to the power company resulted in them telling me of some repairs going on which MIGHT cause spikes. Transformer replacement, at least some of the larger, in-ground types can take a day and result in local interuptions. I shut off a lot of stuff around my house and pulled all the plugs to my stereo and computers. Right. Most surges 'lightning induced' last less than ONE cycle of 60hz. power. About 0.017 seconds. Many years ago I lived in Anaheim, near something that used a LOT of power and NOT constantly. The lights in my house would either dim or more frequently Brighten. A lot. And for maybe a 3-count. I suspect a HUGE motor of some sort. Relays would work for that but are hopelessly SLOW for lightning events. And yes, the Panamax has more traditional MOV protection. For the last couple months, with LOW Demand on the grid my house voltage has hovered right under 120v. |
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wvu80
Minor Hero
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Post by wvu80 on May 17, 2018 14:45:48 GMT -5
 1 You are turning on z2 by pressing “zone 2” twice or once then a source? I can turn on Z2 via a hardware button, or the Onk setup menu. I get a display light that indicates Z2 is active. That means Z2 is on by default when the Onk is powered on, then I engage the source.
2 Connecting speakers or changing volume probably won’t do anything. It’s tied to z2 being on/off per manual. I didn't think changing volume would help either. It's just my philosophy is if what I'm doing isn't working, try something else.
3 Connecting cables with things plugged in / on isn’t really recommended. It can cause damage. You’re probably shorting something briefly...causing the amp to turn on. It's the 12v trigger, not a power cable, although I know what you are saying. Shorting something or not, plugging in the cable while the Emo is in Standby turned it ON, conversely either plugging or unplugging while the Emo is ON, turned it OFF. My take from that is the 12v Trigger outlet is accomplishing On/Off. Still, I won't do that any more. 4 That cable is stereo. You could try a mono cable, one black ring. Stereo have usually worked for me, however. I don't have a cable handy but I can pick one up now that I know what I need. My impression was that the Stereo cable was not the issue, but I'll get a Mono cable to confirm that. I think I may have one, I just didn't know until a couple of posts ago exactly what I was looking for because I didn't have a manual. 5 You could use a voltmeter to confirm you’re getting 12v from the 717. That's a good idea. I presume I want to put the contacts on the tip and on the black ring? If I'm guessing I question if the Onk is outputting the 12v signal.6 Is z2 enabled in the menu under speaker config? -tm Yes, confirmed. The Menu config shows it to be enabled, and the status light on the front of the Onk shows the letters "Z2" which I can see go on and off as I toggle the external switch.
The next step for me is to measure the output voltage from the Onk.
Thanks for the help. -Dave
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Post by millst on May 17, 2018 17:48:24 GMT -5
3) I know, but it's still good practice...even if the voltage is low. Try fiddling with RCA cables attached to an amplifier while it's on (actually, no, don't, really). At best you'll get some nasty noises out of your speakers. Maybe it will send the amp into protection mode. At worst, you could damage your speakers or amp.
5) You want to probe against the metal parts, not the black parts. It's TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) so check the tip/ring against the sleeve. With the mono cable, you'll only have tip and sleeve. Differences in the jacks of Emo vs Onkyo could be your issue.
-tm
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wvu80
Minor Hero
Posts: 30
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Post by wvu80 on May 17, 2018 20:03:42 GMT -5
You're right about not taking chances causing a short. If it saves my amp one time, it was probably worth it.  +++ I was doing a consult with teaman and after some cable swapping his conclusions are for me to use a mono cable instead of the stereo cable. That was suggested further upstream ^^^ and now confirmed. I'm getting ready to order some other stuff from Amazon so I'll just add a mono cable to the mix. I'll keep you informed on how this works for me when I get my mono cable. Thanks again for the advice. Back to our regularly scheduled surge suppressor discussion. |
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Post by leonski on May 17, 2018 20:55:55 GMT -5
3) I know, but it's still good practice...even if the voltage is low. Try fiddling with RCA cables attached to an amplifier while it's on (actually, no, don't, really). At best you'll get some nasty noises out of your speakers. Maybe it will send the amp into protection mode. At worst, you could damage your speakers or amp. 5) You want to probe against the metal parts, not the black parts. It's TRS (tip-ring-sleeve) so check the tip/ring against the sleeve. With the mono cable, you'll only have tip and sleeve. Differences in the jacks of Emo vs Onkyo could be your issue. -tm Is the standard connection TRS or TS? If TS, use the cable or one like it from my link, maybe 15 posts BACK. I don't use this system but I think the cable that came with some gear was just TS......Tip and Sleeve, with no 'ring'. A 'mono' cable. If it IS just TS, I'd avoid the TRS cable and use it for headphone extension or whatever. Just not the power connection. |
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Post by teaman on May 17, 2018 21:01:42 GMT -5
Yep, I just swapped in a couple of stereo cables for the mono ones and they would not trigger....definitely need mono cables for the trigger.
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