fram
Minor Hero
Posts: 83
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Post by fram on Jul 1, 2018 16:07:11 GMT -5
They're On The Way! My set has been shipped -- 4 and a half weeks after order. Let's hear it for Emotiva -- beating its shipping estimate by two weeks and more. Have got a set of Tekton Double Impacts all tuned and ready to sing with the XPAs. We'll see how much better they sound over the XPA-1Ls that has been feeding them for a year. Will not be offering the 1Ls for sale -- they're too good and there is no reason not to have a spare set of monos in the garage... ...now if I can keep from ordering the new Tekton Ulfberhts to take advantage of the XPAs 1000 watts... I have a pair of Tekton DIs being run by Emotiva UPA-1 monoblocks. It is a great setup! The Emo XMC-1 is controlling things. I could not be more happy with things. (Except the new V3 HDMI board install, the new FW update this weekend froze the unit.) |
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Post by leonski on Jul 1, 2018 16:24:27 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I did not have the opportunity to listen directly, I rely on a few opinions, but I do not doubt that Eric has created great speakers. However, it seems to me that at this price there is a large selection of excellent speakers - it's a matter of taste, preferences, a large room and the rest of the system that will accompany them. mack71: Have you heard the Ulfberhts? The reviews are limited as are, apparently, sales. Listen mostly to large orchestral textures and, so, am intrigued by the power handling capabilities and, supposedly, effortless full range and huge soundstage. Think it was a mistake for Terry London to review the Ulfberhts as he was so closely associated with the DIs. This gave the impression that he was the official voice of Tekton. A thread that discussed this in part was removed from Audiogon after it became excessive in many ways. WOW! A massive understatement. Around the price of the Ulfberhts? Huge selection available both new AND pre-loved. |
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Post by mack71 on Jul 1, 2018 16:37:56 GMT -5
In Europe, the price of these speakers is at least 30% higher, and this means that you can look for products from other reputable companies B & W, Focal, Kef P.s Someone has already noticed that we should not leave the main topic of this thread  Unfortunately, I did not have the opportunity to listen directly, I rely on a few opinions, but I do not doubt that Eric has created great speakers. However, it seems to me that at this price there is a large selection of excellent speakers - it's a matter of taste, preferences, a large room and the rest of the system that will accompany them. WOW! A massive understatement. Around the price of the Ulfberhts? Huge selection available both new AND pre-loved. |
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Post by craigl59 on Jul 1, 2018 16:57:18 GMT -5
leonski and mack71
Thanks for your helpful perspectives.
Yes, have also been looking at options such as the new Magico A3 and Triton Reference.
Am looking for a specific quality -- capturing full orchestras so they sound alive in the room and so transparent you can hear each instrument in a well defined soundstage. Am surprisingly close with the DIs in a room that has been carefully treated and using REW and JRiver to even out the response.
But, what is somewhat lacking is full dynamic ease in the loudest of passages (Mahler 2nd, for example) and a more complete transparency.
I sometimes wonder if excellence is achieved with some rather simple techniques. To do the above, you've got to move a lot of air. And the Ulfberhts will do that in spades. Heard the Sashas, for example, and they sounded incredible with pianos and smaller chamber forces but not so good with very large orchestras.
Let me know if you have other candidates and this shows why these threads work.
Apologies for stretching this thread's topic.
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Post by craigl59 on Jul 1, 2018 17:09:35 GMT -5
fram:
Thanks for your input. Also have the XMC-1 and think it is a brilliant design. Am waiting to upgrade to the new board until the large number of reported issues have been addressed.
Wonder if it is possible to upgrade the DA conversion in the XMC-1. When I get used to my RME ADI-2 DAC converter and go back to the other place with the XMC-1 I notice how much better the newer DA chips are -- both in brightness and timbral accuracy.
But the open-ended design of the XMC-1 sitting over the Linux base is the way of the future I think. And the flexibility of mixing video and audio sources is superb.
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Post by leonski on Jul 1, 2018 17:11:59 GMT -5
Agreed.
Moving a lot of air can be important. But moving it together is MORE important. To this end I've loved Panel Speakers since the first time I heard them, back in the 80s.
And one note about the room. Sure, and OK, you've 'tuned' the room REW and such. But with WHAT SPEAKER? Room and speaker are related to the extent that you are hearing mostly room.
Even with really.....really good speakers, you can wreck the sound with a poor space. Since you are apparently willing to go to the troulbe of straightening out your listening space, I'd wait until the new speakers
arrive and go thru the room again.
How large is the listening room? How much of the wall (and ceiling) is Reflective? Absorbent? Diffuse?
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Post by mack71 on Jul 1, 2018 17:26:05 GMT -5
My experience with DI was such that I lacked air, openness, and the lower mid tones were a bit too pronounced, which resulted in less legibility and accuracy of the bass. Eric offered me a small modification in the midrange section (which I could do myself), but eventually I gave up the speakers ... they went a long way - half the world, I incurred the cost of transport, but I had the opportunity to get to know the product of this crazy creator  By the way, I want to add that Eric is a real gentleman  leonski and mack71 Thanks for your helpful perspectives. Yes, have also been looking at options such as the new Magico A3 and Triton Reference. Am looking for a specific quality -- capturing full orchestras so they sound alive in the room and so transparent you can hear each instrument in a well defined soundstage. Am surprisingly close with the DIs in a room that has been carefully treated and using REW and JRiver to even out the response. But, what is somewhat lacking is full dynamic ease in the loudest of passages (Mahler 2nd, for example) and a more complete transparency. I sometimes wonder if excellence is achieved with some rather simple techniques. To do the above, you've got to move a lot of air. And the Ulfberhts will do that in spades. Heard the Sashas, for example, and they sounded incredible with pianos and smaller chamber forces but not so good with very large orchestras. Let me know if you have other candidates and this shows why these threads work. Apologies for stretching this thread's topic. |
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Post by craigl59 on Jul 1, 2018 17:36:56 GMT -5
leonski:
It's a very large room with an open entryway and open dining room and, so, the sound is very poor without treatment. Have killed most reflections behind AND BETWEEN the DIs and this solved the first reflection muddy problems. Mix of reflective and floor rugs over wood tile.
What has worked superbly is creating the impulse and frequency corrections in REW and importing them as high-res wave convolution files into JRiver. Very careful tests (have a home sound studio in the same home) show +/-5db TOTAL SYSTEM and ROOM response from 20 to 30k. This is close to studio standards.
So, everything is taken care of with the tuning process and it is only certain speaker qualities that can be improved.
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Post by craigl59 on Jul 1, 2018 17:42:04 GMT -5
mack71
Your DI comments are very accurate. Wonder if the newly tuned SE version of the DIs would have pleased. The Audiogon thread is extolling this version although it costs twice as much.
And you are spot on that Eric is a very special professional. He combines the creative with the practical and works, apparently, very hard. Have talked with him about many musical topics and he always knows the background information for each. His background in developing NASCAR racecars taught him, I suspect, to be a problem solver no matter what the issue.
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Post by mack71 on Jul 1, 2018 17:56:49 GMT -5
I do not doubt that the SE DI version is better mack71 Your DI comments are very accurate. Wonder if the newly tuned SE version of the DIs would have pleased. The Audiogon thread is extolling this version although it costs twice as much. And you are spot on that Eric is a very special professional. He combines the creative with the practical and works, apparently, very hard. Have talked with him about many musical topics and he always knows the background information for each. His background in developing NASCAR racecars taught him, I suspect, to be a problem solver no matter what the issue. |
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Post by mack71 on Jul 1, 2018 18:00:38 GMT -5
I noticed that my system pictures in previous threads have disappeared. Do not I see them, did anyone remove them?  |
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Post by craigl59 on Jul 1, 2018 18:07:38 GMT -5
mack71
I'm seeing them all and always have -- an impressive bit of gear. Am using similar tuning panels and know how much they improve transparency.
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Post by mack71 on Jul 1, 2018 18:11:29 GMT -5
Thanks for the answer. It looks like I have a problem with my laptop  mack71 I'm seeing them all and always have -- an impressive bit of gear. Am using similar tuning panels and know how much they improve transparency. |
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Post by donh50 on Jul 1, 2018 20:58:18 GMT -5
I spent decades in the World of Magnepan as an owner and repair tech at a couple of local dealers. Lost count of the number of tweeters I got to replace (and some midrange panels) due to people removing or hard-wiring the fuses. Good for business, but I am not sure I recall of anybody who could tell in a blind test (not even DBT) if the fuse was in circuit or a piece of copper bus bar I kept around to demo. Thinking back, I am not sure I ever tried reversing the orientation of the bus bar, however... DBT is one of the REAL Hot Button issues in hifi. I've suggested same and been blasted. As it turns out, arranging such a test and getting statistically valid results out of it is staggeringly difficult. As far as I know, IF you never have blown a fuse on your panels, you should be OK removing it. As for the tweeter? I'm assuming you mean the ribbon? Yes, the ribbon is mechanically fragile. But in 'Maggie Lore', the fuse doesnt' help. A strong gust of wind can take out the tweeter. That's why panels come with ribbon protectors for shipment. Due to abuse, I regularly popped the 1 1/2 amp fuse in my MG-1s. But have NEVER popped the fuse in my 1.6s. That's a 4 amp fast blow. And I'm running a LOT more power these days. People that destroy panels are those who don't realize they DO have power limits. Or run amps well into clipping, or are insensitive to mylar slap. The real problems with older panels is Delam caused by that weird 3M77Glue used. The newer 'flat wire' as in QR (Quasi Ribbon) really helps as did a change in glue. I've seen setups with outrageous amounts of power run within limits and cleanly. No problems. DBT, yah... I set up and participated in quite a few long ago. These days there is SW to make some comparisons easier, but for most component comparisons it's still a PITA. For me it was quite humbling s I thought I could hear every atom in every grain of wire. Turns out I wasn't even close, nor were most of my "golden-eared" buddies as we busted myth after myth. The ribbon is much more sensitive than the plander dynamic tweeters, yes, but I have seen plenty of both that were blown. And delaminations, natch. I got really good (and quick) at removing the sox for a few years there. In the 1970's/1980's there were too many under-powered amplifier stages that clipped driving Maggies leading to tweeter damage (mainly), and at the other end of the spectrum were great big DC-coupled amplifiers without good protection circuits. Nothing like seeing melted and burned bass panels with wires separated by having 100+ V applied across them. "Mylar slap"; had one guy who liked to show off to his friends by letting them slap them turning them down a bit; one of the few times I have seen a warranty repaired denied (fourth time he brought them back for repair when they were clearly abused). The worst cases were always the ones who didn't take advantage of our setup service, took the boxes home, and slipped when removing the magnetic strip or otherwise destroyed a brand new ribbon. (Yes, plenty of "my wife vacuumed the sox and..." tales of woe!) We always kept a couple on hand for a quick swap. I had several pair but my last "big" ones, old MG-IIIa's from 1988, are in storage at the moment, replaced by Revels. Those old panels are still working, and Wendell was amazed I have never had to replace the tweeters. Sanity sometimes wins... Lots of memories from those days of working in the audio biz... - Don |
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Post by leonski on Jul 1, 2018 21:39:43 GMT -5
I'll go offline with an answer. Maggies deserve their own webiste.....Like Magnepan Users Group where so much knowledge and lore exist as to dwarf any other speaker.
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Post by donh50 on Jul 1, 2018 22:07:22 GMT -5
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Post by leonski on Jul 1, 2018 23:55:51 GMT -5
MUG is ALL Maggie with Apogee and a few others tossed in for good measure. Need a schematic? Want to see how to reframe? New Crossover? 'Wings'? History Lesson?
Audio Asylum has a 'planar asylum' which has a very extensive DIY and Knowledge base free for the 'brain picking'.
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Post by pawsman on Jul 2, 2018 9:12:06 GMT -5
craigl59, "Am looking for a specific quality -- capturing full orchestras so they sound alive in the room and so transparent you can hear each instrument in a well defined soundstage. Am surprisingly close with the DIs in a room that has been carefully treated and using REW and JRiver to even out the response. But, what is somewhat lacking is full dynamic ease in the loudest of passages (Mahler 2nd, for example) and a more complete transparency. I sometimes wonder if excellence is achieved with some rather simple techniques. To do the above, you've got to move a lot of air. And the Ulfberhts will do that in spades. Heard the Sashas, for example, and they sounded incredible with pianos and smaller chamber forces but not so good with very large orchestras" Line arrays are known for incredible, effortless dynamics and might be the answer for achieving large scale orchestral dynamics at high SPLs with no compression. Both GR Research and Selah Audio offer Line arrays (see the Selah Julietta for example: www.selahaudio.com/gallery/#/arrays/). I suppose you could call the Tekton 1812 a Line Array. I'm a Tekton owner, and I have no doubt the Ulfberht could achieve this, though I've never heard them- pawsman |
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Post by craigl59 on Jul 2, 2018 11:05:04 GMT -5
Thanks, Pawsman; very helpful.
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Post by donh50 on Jul 2, 2018 11:13:41 GMT -5
My Revel Salon2's handled Mahler 5 the other day just fine for me... They are a fairly demanding load so driving them with a pair of monoblocks wouldn't be a bad idea.
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