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Post by leonski on Jul 2, 2018 16:26:07 GMT -5
www.stereophile.com/content/revel-ultima-salon2-loudspeaker-measurementsNot really THAT bad a load. And VERY GOOD measured performance. The text part of the review was quite good, as well.. Medium sensitivity. Any good amp capable of 4 ohms should have NO problem with these guys. Tube amps with high impedance may interact with the large impedance peak, but SS will be fine.
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Post by donh50 on Jul 2, 2018 18:15:14 GMT -5
Fairly demanding due to low'ish impedance over much of the frequency band and low'ish sensitivity. They sound good, however, and the XPA-2 I have driving them hasn't broken a sweat.  |
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Post by leonski on Jul 2, 2018 18:33:15 GMT -5
Phase angle moderate ESPECIALLY during the low impedance part of the spectrum. Moderate sensitivity? Not really THAT bad. Even my A23 Parasound would drive these well.
Impedance not below 4 ohms with slight exception. No huge phase shift coupled with 3ohm or less impedance.
I suspect the crossover is ESPECIALLY well thought out and executed.
It could get 'more demanding' in a large space, where level expectations are high, or in an over damped room which 'sucks up' sound.
Look at the review test gear. A Mark Levinson #334 is 125 a side. And got terrific coverage in this review.
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Post by milt99 on Jul 2, 2018 19:47:44 GMT -5
Fairly demanding due to low'ish impedance over much of the frequency band and low'ish sensitivity. They sound good, however, and the XPA-2 I have driving them hasn't broken a sweat. I'm going to be driving a pair of Revel Studio2s with my incoming XPA-1s. Not as difficult a load as the Salons so I'm hoping for more "intensity" & clarity at lower volumes than I got with the XPA-1Ls alone. Don, you have Rythmik subs correct? |
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Post by donh50 on Jul 2, 2018 22:07:38 GMT -5
Fairly demanding due to low'ish impedance over much of the frequency band and low'ish sensitivity. They sound good, however, and the XPA-2 I have driving them hasn't broken a sweat. I'm going to be driving a pair of Revel Studio2s with my incoming XPA-1s. Not as difficult a load as the Salons so I'm hoping for more "intensity" & clarity at lower volumes than I got with the XPA-1Ls alone. I suspect either amp would be fine but you'll have plenty of power on tap with a pair of XPA-1's sitting behind them. Not sure how unused power adds anything except bigger amps generally have lower output impedance and thus can control the load (speakers) better. I had the wrong sensitivity number in mind (83 dB vs. 86 dB) for the Salon2's; getting old, I guess. I might have picked up a pair myself but need to buy new speakers for the family room after passing my old ones down to my son (graduated college, new job, first apartment on his own; did the same for his older brother). Yes, a quartet of F12's in a modest room (13'3" W x 17'7" L x 8'6" H), placed (in pairs) to flatten the in-room response. With room gain I am -3 dB at 7 Hz. Good enough for me. The number is to handle room modes, not increase volume, and gave me the option of staying in stereo if I wished (after numerous trials I set them up as a mono swarm and am happy with that). I cross over at 60 or 70 Hz (forget exactly where I left it after playing around from 40 to 80 Hz). As you know I am a strong proponent of a good sub or two (or four, or...) FWIWFM - Don |
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Post by leonski on Jul 3, 2018 0:52:09 GMT -5
One probable reason you are content with a Mono-Swarm of subs is that music is mixed to mono below 80hz, anyway. No reason NOT to, since given the huge wavelength at lower frequencies, you'll never resolve a single wavelength in
a normal room and therefore NOT be able to 'tell where it's coming from'.
Ovetones are another matter altogether and easily add stage width and depth.
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Post by garbulky on Jul 3, 2018 12:00:17 GMT -5
One probable reason you are content with a Mono-Swarm of subs is that music is mixed to mono below 80hz, anyway. No reason NOT to, since given the huge wavelength at lower frequencies, you'll never resolve a single wavelength in a normal room and therefore NOT be able to 'tell where it's coming from'. Ovetones are another matter altogether and easily add stage width and depth. I do very amateurish stereo recordings of an actual soundstage using a stereo pair of microphones. There, the bass is recorded in stereo. I don't know about resolving a wavelegnth in a normal room, but you can hear deep bass in my relatively small room. Perhaps not the full effect though.... |
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Post by donh50 on Jul 3, 2018 12:32:31 GMT -5
One probable reason you are content with a Mono-Swarm of subs is that music is mixed to mono below 80hz, anyway. No reason NOT to, since given the huge wavelength at lower frequencies, you'll never resolve a single wavelength in a normal room and therefore NOT be able to 'tell where it's coming from'. Ovetones are another matter altogether and easily add stage width and depth. I do very amateurish stereo recordings of an actual soundstage using a stereo pair of microphones. There, the bass is recorded in stereo. I don't know about resolving a wavelegnth in a normal room, but you can hear deep bass in my relatively small room. Perhaps not the full effect though.... How "stereo" the bass is depends upon mic placement... Wavelengths are long enough that bass usually ends up mono for a typical X-Y or M-S pair. On stage or in studio I have close-mic'd and panned, and sometimes used widely spaced mics, to get more stereo bass but in the end it just didn't matter -- it was normally mixed to mono in the end anyway. The issue with wavelength in a room relates more to whether or not it can be reproduce in stereo than whether it is there at all. As noted by leonski, the directional information really comes from higher frequencies even if the fundamental is low. Few (practically none except a synthesizer) instruments (or voices) produce sound with no overtones (higher-frequency energy); that is what helps locate drums. A lot of folk do not realize how low a 20 Hz, or even 40 Hz or 80 Hz, tone really is. You "feel" more then "hear" it. Much of the time people (think they) hear say 60 Hz, they are really hearing the second harmonic up at 120 Hz. |
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Post by counterpoint on Jul 3, 2018 15:38:16 GMT -5
The ladies have arrived.
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Post by garbulky on Jul 3, 2018 15:40:34 GMT -5
Yay! Don't keep us in suspense! |
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Post by leonski on Jul 3, 2018 16:16:35 GMT -5
Want to hear some REAL authentic and musical bass? Find a PIPE ORGAN to hear. San Diego has one of the 2 or 3 outdoor instruments still regularly played AND employs a municipal organist. Every SUNDAY at I think 1pm, she presents a 1 hour concert. I've been to several and can say that for ME, the instrument sounds better in colder / damp weather. www.balboapark.org/performing-arts/spreckels-organ |
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Post by novisnick on Jul 3, 2018 16:35:49 GMT -5
Time for a good strip tease an unboxing! 🤪 |
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Post by donh50 on Jul 3, 2018 17:39:56 GMT -5
Want to hear some REAL authentic and musical bass? Find a PIPE ORGAN to hear. San Diego has one of the 2 or 3 outdoor instruments still regularly played AND employs a municipal organist. Every SUNDAY at I think 1pm, she presents a 1 hour concert. I've been to several and can say that for ME, the instrument sounds better in colder / damp weather. www.balboapark.org/performing-arts/spreckels-organ Our church has an electronic organ that does a pretty good job, and we have several churches in the area with real pipes (I think one has 32' pipes, not sure any have 64'). My wife plays organ so we attend concerts now and then. |
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Post by craigl59 on Jul 3, 2018 18:42:51 GMT -5
leonski and donh50
Was an organist in the 1970s and 1980s and can second your impression of the bass power of classical pipe organs. The 32 foot stops descend into "vibration only" for the lowest 4 or 5 notes of the pedalboard. There used to be 64' stops around but, apparently, there are only 1 or 2 left in the world. The last octave and a half of the 64' pedalboard only rumbles, but it can be a monstrous noise.
If you are looking for a good recording that shows off the power of the organ pedals, check out the recent re-issue of Biggs playing the Rheinberger organ concertos. This came out in 1973 in stereo and quad (remember that?). The SACD version just released in Europe recreates the 4 channel version in DSD exactly as 4.0. It has a tremendous amount of bass energy and was recorded in Biggs's home church.
And counterpoint, DO TELL. Expecting great news. And, perhaps with your moniker, you will write us a fugue as well?
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Post by jmilton on Jul 3, 2018 18:54:14 GMT -5
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Post by pknaz on Jul 3, 2018 18:54:50 GMT -5
I've said this a few times already, but my XPA-1's (Gen1's) are one of my favorite two pieces of gear. Every once in a while I'll give them a good workout (which means greater than 105db continuous with 115+ peaks at the listening position) when I want concert level SPL  (which happens pretty rarely). |
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Post by leonski on Jul 3, 2018 21:05:35 GMT -5
leonski and donh50 Was an organist in the 1970s and 1980s and can second your impression of the bass power of classical pipe organs. The 32 foot stops descend into "vibration only" for the lowest 4 or 5 notes of the pedalboard. There used to be 64' stops around but, apparently, there are only 1 or 2 left in the world. The last octave and a half of the 64' pedalboard only rumbles, but it can be a monstrous noise. If you are looking for a good recording that shows off the power of the organ pedals, check out the recent re-issue of Biggs playing the Rheinberger organ concertos. This came out in 1973 in stereo and quad (remember that?). The SACD version just released in Europe recreates the 4 channel version in DSD exactly as 4.0. It has a tremendous amount of bass energy and was recorded in Biggs's home church. And counterpoint, DO TELL. Expecting great news. And, perhaps with your moniker, you will write us a fugue as well? My HSU Sub came with a variatal recording CD. The FIRST on the disc? saint saens symphony 3 with organ. This features a 16 2/3hz tone which puts my sub right against the wall. EVERYTHING in the house which isn't bolted down will resonate. Plates on the wall? Dishes in the kitchen? WINDOWS? The sub is incapable of reference levels at that frequency. But Oh! Boy! at lower levels you STILL feel it in your chest. The San Diego Civic organist is Carol Williams. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Williams_(organist) |
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Post by craigl59 on Jul 3, 2018 21:20:43 GMT -5
leonski:
Have a 15" Hsu with that same disc and you are right; it is a gas and designed to rearrange your furnishings!
Organists have faced the same sad downturn that musicians in general have -- and classical ones in particular. Pipe organs are expensive to buy and maintain and churches are cutting their music budgets. Its so familiar: quality, weight, and expense are sacrificed for almost-as-good, lightness, and less expensive.
Those of us that have the XPA-1 coming can relate. Class D world, anyone?
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Post by leonski on Jul 3, 2018 23:30:44 GMT -5
San Diego has employed a Civic Organist as a provision of the Will of Spreckels, who GAVE the organ and pavilion TO San Diego. It's over 100 years old. The NEW Organist is Raul ..... Here's the Link: www.kpbs.org/news/2017/dec/18/san-diego-meet-your-new-civic-organist/He makes about 78,000$ annual salary, of which much is paid by the Spreckels Organ Society. Carol Williams moved out of state. She was born in the UK and has played MANY classiclal instruments. While Church Organs are fast disappearing, the OUTDOOR organ is almost extinct. The San Diego instrument is the worlds largest OUTDOOR pipe organ. I've heard of a few outdoor instruments in non-playable condition. IMO, for the music lover, ANY visit to SanDiego which omits a stop on a Sunday afternoon for the Free Concert is a wasted trip. |
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Post by craigl59 on Jul 6, 2018 10:41:52 GMT -5
XPA-1 News, anyone?
Counterpoint? Milt99? Got them up and running yet? Am having delivery today and will post over the weekend.
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(which happens pretty rarely). 