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Post by audiobill on Jul 13, 2018 11:11:23 GMT -5
Nick, what do you think you want from this beyond your mac mini / Brooklyn combination?
Thanks,
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Post by novisnick on Jul 13, 2018 11:36:33 GMT -5
Nick, what do you think you want from this beyond your mac mini / Brooklyn combination? Thanks, Ill find out this evening when I start to break in the Brooklyn. From what ive read a computer directly connected to the DAC brings a lot of noise. If Im going to place something in between Im not looking at a half measure. Of course at this point Im not sure what Ill hear. Hopefully much better sound, mind you my setup as is is pretty dang good IMHO. I do have 30 day window to return any product I test drive. If I dont hear enough of an improvement I may just stay with the Explorer 2. Maybe an Sonore or sOtm product. Experiments in motion! đđśđśđśđś |
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Post by novisnick on Jul 13, 2018 11:41:07 GMT -5
Nick, what do you think you want from this beyond your mac mini / Brooklyn combination? Thanks, A more direct quick answer to your question would be to have better integration of Tidal and my hard drive music as well as easier controls utilizing Roon and my IPad. And last but not least if possible, audio utopia to rival/match pristine vinyl. đđ¤đś |
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Post by audiobill on Jul 13, 2018 12:29:10 GMT -5
Tks, please provide an update.....and do compare usb and toslink from mac mini to Brooklyn.
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Post by pedrocols on Jul 13, 2018 12:38:49 GMT -5
Microrendu here as well!âşď¸
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Post by mgbpuff on Jul 13, 2018 13:36:31 GMT -5
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 13, 2018 13:43:44 GMT -5
Nick, what do you think you want from this beyond your mac mini / Brooklyn combination? Thanks, Ill find out this evening when I start to break in the Brooklyn. From what ive read a computer directly connected to the DAC brings a lot of noise. If Im going to place something in between Im not looking at a half measure. Of course at this point Im not sure what Ill hear. Hopefully much better sound, mind you my setup as is is pretty dang good IMHO. I do have 30 day window to return any product I test drive. If I dont hear enough of an improvement I may just stay with the Explorer 2. Maybe an Sonore or sOtm product. Experiments in motion! đđśđśđśđś I agree USB can be noisy. If your DAC has a S/PDIF coax input, take a look at a Schiit Eitr. It's a very high quality USB to S/PDIF converter and it works perfectly to isolate a noisy USB signal away from the DAC. At only $179 it's a great bargain. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jul 13, 2018 14:13:11 GMT -5
Have you been hearing noise? If not, then you probably don't have any noise to worry about.
People spend way too much time and energy obsessing over things like this - and fixing problems they don't have. Yes, connecting the USB output on a computer to the USB input on a DAC CAN cause noise problems (especially with some USB-powered DACs).
However, with MOST DACs that are AC powered, it isn't a problem. (Some DACs have built in galvanic isolation. However, even many that don't simply aren't especially sensitive to noise on the USB line.)
Try really hard to avoid buying expensive solutions to problems that you don't actually have.
If you really want the best USB-to-S/PDIF converter out there in terms of actual performance, then this is probably it: www.audiophilleo.com/ Their low-end models start at just under $600. Of course, it's really doubtful that you actually need it. 
Assuming your DAC has a good quality USB input (perhaps a big assumption there), and isn't unduly sensitive to jitter, none of this will really matter.
Nick, what do you think you want from this beyond your mac mini / Brooklyn combination? Thanks, Ill find out this evening when I start to break in the Brooklyn. From what ive read a computer directly connected to the DAC brings a lot of noise. If Im going to place something in between Im not looking at a half measure. Of course at this point Im not sure what Ill hear. Hopefully much better sound, mind you my setup as is is pretty dang good IMHO. I do have 30 day window to return any product I test drive. If I dont hear enough of an improvement I may just stay with the Explorer 2. Maybe an Sonore or sOtm product. Experiments in motion! đđśđśđśđś |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 13, 2018 14:31:28 GMT -5
Have you been hearing noise? If not, then you probably don't have any noise to worry about. People spend way too much time and energy obsessing over things like this - and fixing problems they don't have. Yes, connecting the USB output on a computer to the USB input on a DAC CAN cause noise problems (especially with some USB-powered DACs).
However, with MOST DACs that are AC powered, it isn't a problem. (Some DACs have built in galvanic isolation. However, even many that don't simply aren't especially sensitive to noise on the USB line.)
Try really hard to avoid buying expensive solutions to problems that you don't actually have. If you really want the best USB-to-S/PDIF converter out there in terms of actual performance, then this is probably it: www.audiophilleo.com/ Their low-end models start at just under $600. Of course, it's really doubtful that you actually need it. Assuming your DAC has a good quality USB input (perhaps a big assumption there), and isn't unduly sensitive to jitter, none of this will really matter.
The only problem with this of course is sometimes people don't realize they have a problem until they try the fix and realize the improvement they can suddenly hear. I've had that experience many times in my audio and video life. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jul 13, 2018 14:34:23 GMT -5
Our new desktop DAC is getting closer - really. However, any plans for a streamer are further off, and far less certain. I wouldn't wait for an Emotiva solution. They have had one on the drawing boards since the XDA-1 days. Dan has said many times to just use a Mac Mini or RPi. Thanks, Ive already passed on the Emotiva solution. If Big Dan thinks the RPi is an end-game product, we should all chip in for counciling and a good set of hearing aids.,,,,,,,,just sayin! đ |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jul 13, 2018 15:24:27 GMT -5
I do agree that SOMETIMES people try something new and discover some improvement that "they didn't know they were missing". However, sometimes people just get restless, look for a change, find something that just sounds a tiny bit different, then proceed to convince themselves that it's better. And, sometimes, people convince themselves that they have an imaginary problem, then buy an imaginary solution to fix it (at which point they imagine "something got better"). (It's interesting how so many people are determined not to try removing the "improvement" - and doing a double-blind test to see if they really notice that it's gone.)
Personally I've owned somewhere between twenty and thirty DACs. - A few of them had obvious noise issues with a USB connection (when no music was playing; you could actually hear noises coming from the speakers when you did stuff on the computer screen). With those DACs, adding a galvanic isolator instantly made the problem go away, and so was an obvious improvement. (Incidentally, a decent galvanic isolator goes for about $50.)
- And several had less than stellar USB inputs, which seemed to be very sensitive to jitter. With those, adding a high quality USB-to-S/PDIF converter seemed to make the sound stage slightly sharper with certain few very well recorded pieces of music.
I would classify the difference as being very subtle - and only audible with certain recordings - but real. - But, with most of them, they simply seemed to be performing as they should, up to their limitations, and "upgrading" the USB input made no audible difference at all. (And, no, I didn't try all the options on every DAC.)
One very simple test would be to connect a laptop computer to the DAC in question. Then see if you hear a difference when the laptop is plugged in and when it's on battery power. (Both may be noisy, but there should be a difference between the two... ) Also, at the risk of sounding mean, if your DAC sounds a lot better when you add some fancy sort of USB input upgrade... Then perhaps the real problem is that your DAC has a lousy USB input circuit... and maybe you should just upgrade the entire DAC to a better one.
I also feel a need to point out that - specifically when it comes to "USB DAC tweaks" - there is an awful lot of snake oil out there. Some of those little gadgets actually do something significant - whether it actually makes any difference or not. However, many others are total hogwash, and many are just plain silly... and it can be real hard to tell which are which.
(For starters, if you want a simple "USB re-clocker", you can buy one for $8 at Walmart..... all USB hubs, even the $8 ones, include re-clocking.)
Have you been hearing noise? If not, then you probably don't have any noise to worry about. People spend way too much time and energy obsessing over things like this - and fixing problems they don't have. Yes, connecting the USB output on a computer to the USB input on a DAC CAN cause noise problems (especially with some USB-powered DACs).
However, with MOST DACs that are AC powered, it isn't a problem. (Some DACs have built in galvanic isolation. However, even many that don't simply aren't especially sensitive to noise on the USB line.)
Try really hard to avoid buying expensive solutions to problems that you don't actually have. If you really want the best USB-to-S/PDIF converter out there in terms of actual performance, then this is probably it: www.audiophilleo.com/ Their low-end models start at just under $600. Of course, it's really doubtful that you actually need it. Assuming your DAC has a good quality USB input (perhaps a big assumption there), and isn't unduly sensitive to jitter, none of this will really matter.
The only problem with this of course is sometimes people don't realize they have a problem until they try the fix and realize the improvement they can suddenly hear. I've had that experience many times in my audio and video life. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jul 13, 2018 15:28:05 GMT -5
I wouldn't wait for an Emotiva solution. They have had one on the drawing boards since the XDA-1 days. Dan has said many times to just use a Mac Mini or RPi. I'm not waiting for an Emotiva solution - I have solutions for my needs currently, so I am not actively shopping. But, if Emotiva has an option available, I'd likely try it (and maybe try it in parallel with one of these others). As dyohn noted, others like me using a PC as our current solution might actually have a problem that goes away when we try something else. (That said - anyone with a spare microrendu, send it to me and I'll try it and return it!) As Keith noted, their new DAC is getting close, but their streaming solution is further away. That's fine w/me. Regarding their past approaches you refer to "since the XDA-1 days", back then they were talking some very different approaches vs. what they talked at Emofest last year. Frankly, I wouldn't have wanted one of the things they were talking about. But, what they talked at Emofest sounds more of interest to me and sounds more like the Sonore products than an "all in 1 streamer" like they were talking before. I suspect we'll see one as an RMC-1 expansion module and a stand alone unit..."in due time". Mark |
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Post by brubacca on Jul 13, 2018 16:57:38 GMT -5
I can only speak from my experience, but I found a very noticeable improvement in going from a Mac Mini style PC (I built it and used Daphile and Windows 7) to the Sonore Product. It was profound and immediate. I don't know why, but it did. Maybe it was noise (I did also try USB) from the USB or on the Power Line. My Mini PC was a Atom Dual Core, with 4GB Ram and 500GB SSD. I also used a good PCI card with Coax and Optical digital out. Was it noise? Don't know or care. The Sonore was better in every way and only got better when I added the Schiit Eitr.
From all my pushing I wish I got a cut of the Sonore Purse, but I am just a satisfied customer.
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Post by oddeofile on Jul 13, 2018 17:39:17 GMT -5
Send toe Brooklyn back and get the new iFi Pro iDSD streaming DAC. It does everything in one chassis. ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/pro-I looked hard at the Pro iDSD when I was DAC shopping. Came down to the iFI, the Brooklyn and the ps audio Direct Stream Junior. Went with the ps DSJ MQA, DSD, network bridge,... Does a lot of things (very well I might add) ala, the iFi. I have the Burr Brown chipset in my Parasound P5 it sound nice if not dynamic. iFI is quad and most likely better implemented in the iDSD. Bottom line is my dealer carried the ps and I could not demo the iFI or Brooklyn |
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Post by badronald on Jul 13, 2018 18:06:38 GMT -5
That brooklyn is a great dac! That being said, it's pretty much proven these days that the best streaming sound is with ethernet because any conversions via usb to/ or spdif is eliminated. Ethernet will dump bit perfect right into the dac chip, sooooo, I would recommend selling the brooklyn and get a Manhattan Dac with network card. You will be amazed. Just use the computer as a roon remote, not as a source. You will see a noticable difference.
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 13, 2018 18:13:03 GMT -5
I do agree that SOMETIMES people try something new and discover some improvement that "they didn't know they were missing". -edit- I have no interest in debating you Keith, and as an Emotiva representative your bias is well understood and obvious. But please know that I am an engineer just like you and I do not fall easily nor lightly for snake oil of any sort. The best USB for audio implementation I have ever experienced was from Mike Moffatt at Schiit Audio, and the low noise floor created by the Eitr device was obvious and dramatic in every installation I have tried it in. YMMV. And by the way there is no such thing as "galvanic" isolation. "Galvanic" refers to a type of dissimilar metal corrosion. What you mean when you use that buzz phrase is electro-magnetic isolation.  |
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Post by novisnick on Jul 13, 2018 18:18:26 GMT -5
That brooklyn is a great dac! That being said, it's pretty much proven these days that the best streaming sound is with ethernet because any conversions via usb to/ or spdif is eliminated. Ethernet will dump bit perfect right into the dac chip, sooooo, I would recommend selling the brooklyn and get a Manhattan Dac with network card. You will be amazed. Just use the computer as a roon remote, not as a source. You will see a noticable difference. Some of what you say is true, BUT, the Brooklyn has beaten the Manhattan over and over again in sound quality and what folks spent money on. You can always spend more money but it doesnât mean youâll get the best. (To each their own ears) Besides, I donât want to âsee a noticeable differenceâ your words, I want to hear them. LOL Just yanking your chain there! đ |
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Post by badronald on Jul 13, 2018 18:20:50 GMT -5
I do agree that SOMETIMES people try something new and discover some improvement that "they didn't know they were missing". -edit- I have no interest in debating you Keith, and as an Emotiva representative your bias is well understood and obvious. But please know that I am an engineer just like you and I do not fall easily nor lightly for snake oil of any sort. The best USB for audio implementation I have ever experienced was from Mike Moffatt at Schiit Audio, and the low noise floor created by the Eitr device was obvious and dramatic in every installation I have tried it in. YMMV. And by the way there is no such thing as "galvanic" isolation. "Galvanic" refers to a type of dissimilar metal corrosion. What you mean when you use that buzz phrase is electro-magnetic isolation. And that is why you always use a copper clamp on a copper pipe! LOL |
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Post by badronald on Jul 13, 2018 18:22:54 GMT -5
That brooklyn is a great dac! That being said, it's pretty much proven these days that the best streaming sound is with ethernet because any conversions via usb to/ or spdif is eliminated. Ethernet will dump bit perfect right into the dac chip, sooooo, I would recommend selling the brooklyn and get a Manhattan Dac with network card. You will be amazed. Just use the computer as a roon remote, not as a source. You will see a noticable difference. Some of what you say is true, BUT, the Brooklyn has beaten the Manhattan over and over again in sound quality and what folks spent money on. You can always spend more money but it doesnât mean youâll get the best. (To each their own ears) Besides, I donât want to âsee a noticeable differenceâ your words, I want to hear them. LOL Just yanking your chain there! đ I'm sorry, it didn't see you post anything about a budget. My bad. Total forgot what I recommended. what do I know. |
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Post by badronald on Jul 13, 2018 18:29:49 GMT -5
That brooklyn is a great dac! That being said, it's pretty much proven these days that the best streaming sound is with ethernet because any conversions via usb to/ or spdif is eliminated. Ethernet will dump bit perfect right into the dac chip, sooooo, I would recommend selling the brooklyn and get a Manhattan Dac with network card. You will be amazed. Just use the computer as a roon remote, not as a source. You will see a noticable difference. Some of what you say is true, BUT, the Brooklyn has beaten the Manhattan over and over again in sound quality and what folks spent money on. You can always spend more money but it doesnât mean youâll get the best. (To each their own ears) Besides, I donât want to âsee a noticeable differenceâ your words, I want to hear them. LOL Just yanking your chain there! đ Could your tell me where you have seen the brooklyn has beaten the Manhattan II over and over. I would love to read. No joking here, I would really like to read those articles. |
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