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Post by codyjenkins on Oct 29, 2018 21:00:11 GMT -5
I control tidal hi-fi via Roon through a Microsoft Surface with an oppo 203 as my end point. Music is stored on a nas which is hard wired via ethernet to my network, as is the Oppo. Where would these devices fit into my setup? Tidal does play hifi/mqa (first unfold probably) through mobile app on my LG V30 with wired headphones. In my case Bowers and Wilkins P7. Thanks.
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Post by novisnick on Oct 29, 2018 21:25:32 GMT -5
I control tidal hi-fi via Roon through a Microsoft Surface with an oppo 203 as my end point. Music is stored on a nas which is hard wired via ethernet to my network, as is the Oppo. Where would these devices fit into my setup? Tidal does play hifi/mqa (first unfold probably) through mobile app on my LG V30 with wired headphones. In my case Bowers and Wilkins P7. Thanks. I’d consider this setup good for most listeners but for enthusiasts an upgraded DAC vs the OPPO would be required to see a real benefit. It seems your mixing a phone into your audio system? Tidal and Roon along with your NAS is a great foundation for a superior audio system. Running all your music bia ethernet is another huge plus in my book. The phone and Oppo, not so much I think. What do you want from your system specifically? |
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Post by codyjenkins on Oct 29, 2018 21:43:10 GMT -5
I control tidal hi-fi via Roon through a Microsoft Surface with an oppo 203 as my end point. Music is stored on a nas which is hard wired via ethernet to my network, as is the Oppo. Where would these devices fit into my setup? Tidal does play hifi/mqa (first unfold probably) through mobile app on my LG V30 with wired headphones. In my case Bowers and Wilkins P7. Thanks. I’d consider this setup good for most listeners but for enthusiasts an upgraded DAC vs the OPPO would be required to see a real benefit. It seems your mixing a phone into your audio system? Tidal and Roon along with your NAS is a great foundation for a superior audio system. Running all your music bia ethernet is another huge plus in my book. The phone and Oppo, not so much I think. What do you want from your system specifically? The phone is used with cans as a mobile solution only. The question of mqa working on the mobile tidal app was brought up earlier in this thread. Am strongly considering adding mytek liberty between the oppo and receiver, just not sure where a rendu type device would be added to the chain of my current setup, or if it would add anything as most of the discussion centers around cleaning up issues with usb outputs. Have not had time to check out the video links posted, and am still trying to comprehend the science and benefits. Not sure more $ spent would mean I am a bigger enthusiast. Thanks. |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 29, 2018 22:31:47 GMT -5
True enough about spending more money. Putting the Liberty,a DAC between to others will only benefit if your bypassing the DACs of those other two units.
The rendu / sotm network players are used to play music over an ethernet connection. You can also incorpeTidal and a few other services as well as Roon. Paly files from your NAS but they are usually connected directly to a usb DAC.
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Post by bitsandbytes on Oct 30, 2018 1:40:05 GMT -5
Thank you all for posting such good advice. Am very interested in improved network audio, but not want to invest money in it till I have a thorough understanding of my options. I do not have any music files stored on a computer. About 95% or more of my listening is through Tidal Hi-Fi - thus Tidal is where my emphasis is. I saw this page on the Small Green Computer website: www.smallgreencomputer.com/pages/sonicorbiter-os-version-2-7The part of that I liked contains this paragraph: "Tidal directly to your Sonore Rendu Series player. Customers are now able to connect directly to Tidal from their Rendu series player. No need for a desktop or Roon to get Tidal to your USB DAC. All you need is a Rendu Series player and a smartphone / tablet" Does this mean if I purchase a Sonore ultraRendu and a good power supply - and am only going to use Tidal through it - that I will have great quality without having to purchase $500 Roon nor any music server? Will this have the same quality as if Roon and a music server were added to it when listening to Tidal? Does SOTM have a similar option available? What internet download speed should I have if using software like the SonicOrbiter 2.7 or Roon? My internet download speed speed is about 32 mb total for my Uverse (only about 7.5 mb is allocated for my internet). Should I not even consider these networking options until I seriously upgrade my internet speed? My current connections for Tidal are through Apple TV 2 with the optical output going through my Schiit Yggdrasil. My controller is the Apple IPAD Air 2. Thank you for your help. Walt |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 30, 2018 2:34:24 GMT -5
Thank you all for posting such good advice. Am very interested in improved network audio, but not want to invest money in it till I have a thorough understanding of my options. I do not have any music files stored on a computer. About 95% or more of my listening is through Tidal Hi-Fi - thus Tidal is where my emphasis is. I saw this page on the Small Green Computer website: www.smallgreencomputer.com/pages/sonicorbiter-os-version-2-7The part of that I liked contains this paragraph: "Tidal directly to your Sonore Rendu Series player. Customers are now able to connect directly to Tidal from their Rendu series player. No need for a desktop or Roon to get Tidal to your USB DAC. All you need is a Rendu Series player and a smartphone / tablet" Does this mean if I purchase a Sonore ultraRendu and a good power supply - and am only going to use Tidal through it - that I will have great quality without having to purchase $500 Roon nor any music server? Will this have the same quality as if Roon and a music server were added to it when listening to Tidal? Does SOTM have a similar option available? What internet download speed should I have if using software like the SonicOrbiter 2.7 or Roon? My internet download speed speed is about 32 mb total for my Uverse (only about 7.5 mb is allocated for my internet). Should I not even consider these networking options until I seriously upgrade my internet speed? My current connections for Tidal are through Apple TV 2 with the optical output going through my Schiit Yggdrasil. My controller is the Apple IPAD Air 2. Thank you for your help. Walt Both platforms are amazing and Id highly suggest you go to each website and inquire about your questions. Best answers will be found that way. Kamal at cruxaudio.com Will be able to tell you how to do what you like. Ask about the sotm sms-200, its the equivalent of the micr rendu and it runs anout $500.00. Also investigate Sonore with the same questions. Should be easy for these devices to do as you ask. Let us know what you find as these units can do so much more then how we are employing them. Please tell Kamal I sent you. He’ll take great care of you. I spoke with him last might at about 8 PM centeral time. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 30, 2018 5:37:36 GMT -5
The part of that I liked contains this paragraph: "Tidal directly to your Sonore Rendu Series player. Customers are now able to connect directly to Tidal from their Rendu series player. No need for a desktop or Roon to get Tidal to your USB DAC. All you need is a Rendu Series player and a smartphone / tablet" Does this mean if I purchase a Sonore ultraRendu and a good power supply - and am only going to use Tidal through it - that I will have great quality without having to purchase $500 Roon nor any music server? Will this have the same quality as if Roon and a music server were added to it when listening to Tidal? Does SOTM have a similar option available? What internet download speed should I have if using software like the SonicOrbiter 2.7 or Roon? My internet download speed speed is about 32 mb total for my Uverse (only about 7.5 mb is allocated for my internet). Should I not even consider these networking options until I seriously upgrade my internet speed? The option to use Tidal directly with the rendu series is new with the latest version of their sonicorbiter OS. I have not tried it, but my understand is that - yes - you do not need Roon or something else to play Tidal via the rendu series of products. It should have the same quality as going through Roon. I heard zero sonic gains comparing Tidal through Roon direct to my DAC vs. Tidal direct to my DAC (all via my PC). I don't know about the SOtM and Tidal integration there. On your other questions...email Andrew and I sure he will answer (andrew@vortexbox.org) Mark |
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Post by bitsandbytes on Oct 30, 2018 8:07:37 GMT -5
The part of that I liked contains this paragraph: "Tidal directly to your Sonore Rendu Series player. Customers are now able to connect directly to Tidal from their Rendu series player. No need for a desktop or Roon to get Tidal to your USB DAC. All you need is a Rendu Series player and a smartphone / tablet" Does this mean if I purchase a Sonore ultraRendu and a good power supply - and am only going to use Tidal through it - that I will have great quality without having to purchase $500 Roon nor any music server? Will this have the same quality as if Roon and a music server were added to it when listening to Tidal? Does SOTM have a similar option available? What internet download speed should I have if using software like the SonicOrbiter 2.7 or Roon? My internet download speed speed is about 32 mb total for my Uverse (only about 7.5 mb is allocated for my internet). Should I not even consider these networking options until I seriously upgrade my internet speed? The option to use Tidal directly with the rendu series is new with the latest version of their sonicorbiter OS. I have not tried it, but my understand is that - yes - you do not need Roon or something else to play Tidal via the rendu series of products. It should have the same quality as going through Roon. I heard zero sonic gains comparing Tidal through Roon direct to my DAC vs. Tidal direct to my DAC (all via my PC). I don't know about the SOtM and Tidal integration there. On your other questions...email Andrew and I sure he will answer (andrew@vortexbox.org) Mark Thank you Nick and Mark for your advice. I found the vortebox forum and after signing up and perusing through it, will send an email from their to Andrew. Mark, what power supply are you using with your ultraRendu? I am not computer savvy. Was it difficult getting everything up and operational on the rendu's and SOTM's? Thanks, Walt |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 30, 2018 8:39:46 GMT -5
bitsandbytes after connecting the unit to my ethernet and dac I typed in the adress given me on the browser and it was straight forward. Made a couple selections and all was good. Good luck and have fun!
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Post by qdtjni on Oct 30, 2018 9:06:45 GMT -5
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 30, 2018 10:32:00 GMT -5
The option to use Tidal directly with the rendu series is new with the latest version of their sonicorbiter OS. I have not tried it, but my understand is that - yes - you do not need Roon or something else to play Tidal via the rendu series of products. It should have the same quality as going through Roon. I heard zero sonic gains comparing Tidal through Roon direct to my DAC vs. Tidal direct to my DAC (all via my PC). I don't know about the SOtM and Tidal integration there. On your other questions...email Andrew and I sure he will answer (andrew@vortexbox.org) Mark Thank you Nick and Mark for your advice. I found the vortebox forum and after signing up and perusing through it, will send an email from their to Andrew. Mark, what power supply are you using with your ultraRendu? I am not computer savvy. Was it difficult getting everything up and operational on the rendu's and SOTM's? Thanks, Walt It is really easy to set up...plug in, go to the IP address they provide, and select how you want to use it. I am using Small Green Computer's power supply. I had an uptone LPS-1 on hand (which is much more expensive) and the SGC option was just as good. Mark |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 30, 2018 10:39:49 GMT -5
Interesting data...note that it's only 1 measure (noise) and that the issue the data shows is with the iFi Power power supply. It does not show up with a linear power supply. Most use other power supplies (I do...mine is a linear PS not a SMPS like the iFi Power). In any case, the MR and UR sound better in my system, and it's not subtle - nor was it subtle in chicagorspec's system. Mark |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 30, 2018 10:50:43 GMT -5
From online tests of the Micro-Rendu: Regarding performance: "The combination of Sonore microRendu and ifi iPower is not good news. Performance is significantly degraded by injection of AC mains input of 60 Hz and its harmonics. If you are going to use microRendu, then you should opt for a power supply like the SBOOSTER that has measured system performance that demonstrates its performance in this system. Once there, this device is useful from functionality point of view in allowing the DAC to sit remotely on a network. From audio performance point of view, the measurements do not show any improvements." Source = www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurements-of-sonore-microrendu-streamer.577/Regarding construction: "Sonore MicroRendu uses an off-the-shelf hobby CPU board as its main computing engine. A simple I/O board with a handful of regulators, some I/O hardware and a USB Hub complete the picture. There is nothing in the design that is unusual or in my opinion, necessary to get better performance out of a high performance DAC. It is the job of a high-performance USB DAC to not care what is upstream of it." Source = www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sonore-microrendu-hardware-teardown-and-review.770/Not encouraging... |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 30, 2018 11:16:18 GMT -5
Streaming audio relies on a STABLE Internet connection.... you can't have a connection that drops out from time to time. However, for streaming AUDIO, you do not need an especially fast connection. While really fast connections are often more stable at slower speeds... they aren't really necessary. 7.5 mB is more than enough to stream audio.
At most, you're going to see tasking limitations. For example, don't try to download a big file while listening to music, and don't try to update Windows while your favorite album is playing, or the download may cause dropouts in your audio stream.
However, actual audio streaming is not all that bandwidth intensive.
(It's VIDEO that requires a lot of bandwidth to get a smooth high-resolution image.)
Thank you all for posting such good advice. Am very interested in improved network audio, but not want to invest money in it till I have a thorough understanding of my options. I do not have any music files stored on a computer. About 95% or more of my listening is through Tidal Hi-Fi - thus Tidal is where my emphasis is. I saw this page on the Small Green Computer website: www.smallgreencomputer.com/pages/sonicorbiter-os-version-2-7The part of that I liked contains this paragraph: "Tidal directly to your Sonore Rendu Series player. Customers are now able to connect directly to Tidal from their Rendu series player. No need for a desktop or Roon to get Tidal to your USB DAC. All you need is a Rendu Series player and a smartphone / tablet" Does this mean if I purchase a Sonore ultraRendu and a good power supply - and am only going to use Tidal through it - that I will have great quality without having to purchase $500 Roon nor any music server? Will this have the same quality as if Roon and a music server were added to it when listening to Tidal? Does SOTM have a similar option available? What internet download speed should I have if using software like the SonicOrbiter 2.7 or Roon? My internet download speed speed is about 32 mb total for my Uverse (only about 7.5 mb is allocated for my internet). Should I not even consider these networking options until I seriously upgrade my internet speed? My current connections for Tidal are through Apple TV 2 with the optical output going through my Schiit Yggdrasil. My controller is the Apple IPAD Air 2. Thank you for your help. Walt |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 30, 2018 11:20:30 GMT -5
The Rendu device would replace your Oppo as a source device.....
The Rendu is a network streaming audio player.....
I’d consider this setup good for most listeners but for enthusiasts an upgraded DAC vs the OPPO would be required to see a real benefit. It seems your mixing a phone into your audio system? Tidal and Roon along with your NAS is a great foundation for a superior audio system. Running all your music bia ethernet is another huge plus in my book. The phone and Oppo, not so much I think. What do you want from your system specifically? The phone is used with cans as a mobile solution only. The question of mqa working on the mobile tidal app was brought up earlier in this thread. Am strongly considering adding mytek liberty between the oppo and receiver, just not sure where a rendu type device would be added to the chain of my current setup, or if it would add anything as most of the discussion centers around cleaning up issues with usb outputs. Have not had time to check out the video links posted, and am still trying to comprehend the science and benefits. Not sure more $ spent would mean I am a bigger enthusiast. Thanks. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 30, 2018 11:21:43 GMT -5
From online tests of the Micro-Rendu: Regarding performance: "The combination of Sonore microRendu and ifi iPower is not good news. Performance is significantly degraded by injection of AC mains input of 60 Hz and its harmonics. If you are going to use microRendu, then you should opt for a power supply like the SBOOSTER that has measured system performance that demonstrates its performance in this system. Once there, this device is useful from functionality point of view in allowing the DAC to sit remotely on a network. From audio performance point of view, the measurements do not show any improvements." Source = www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurements-of-sonore-microrendu-streamer.577/Regarding construction: "Sonore MicroRendu uses an off-the-shelf hobby CPU board as its main computing engine. A simple I/O board with a handful of regulators, some I/O hardware and a USB Hub complete the picture. There is nothing in the design that is unusual or in my opinion, necessary to get better performance out of a high performance DAC. It is the job of a high-performance USB DAC to not care what is upstream of it." Source = www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sonore-microrendu-hardware-teardown-and-review.770/Not encouraging... You might be surprised if you give it a listen. Also note that if you read a bit of the thread, some comment on a known antagonist relationship between the author and the makers of the rendu and some clear bias. Mark |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Oct 30, 2018 11:32:14 GMT -5
Power supply requirements DEPEND ON THE SPECIFIC DEVICE INVOLVED.
Some devices are very dependent on the quality of their power supply - so a power supply that is truly better in some important way will benefit them.
However, other devices ... just ... plain ... don't ... care - and, for them, a $5 switcher will work exactly as well as some 50 pound "audiophile wonder supply".
Some folks would like you to believe that devices that cannot benefit from a power supply upgrade are themselves somehow limited. However, from an engineering perspective, a well designed device should deliver the performance it was designed to using the power supply it was designed to be used with.
In other words, to put it more bluntly, if a device sounds better when you upgrade its power supply... Then the question you should be asking is: "Why did they sell it to you with an insufficient power supply to begin with?" (The usual answer is "To save money".... or "To allow you to make your initial purchase for less... and buy the rest of the parts you really need later".)
However, sadly, power supplies are also one of those "audiophile snake oil" things..... (Where audiophiles will always assume, often incorrectly, that "an upgrade will always help".)
Both linear and SMPS power supplies have advantages and disadvantages... and so may work better with certain equipment. And both can be designed well or badly...
Don't assume; it's bad for your wallet.
Interesting data...note that it's only 1 measure (noise) and that the issue the data shows is with the iFi Power power supply. It does not show up with a linear power supply. Most use other power supplies (I do...mine is a linear PS not a SMPS like the iFi Power). In any case, the MR and UR sound better in my system, and it's not subtle - nor was it subtle in chicagorspec's system. Mark |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 30, 2018 11:46:05 GMT -5
Power supply requirements DEPEND ON THE SPECIFIC DEVICE INVOLVED.
Some devices are very dependent on the quality of their power supply - so a power supply that is truly better in some important way will benefit them.
However, other devices ... just ... plain ... don't ... care - and, for them, a $5 switcher will work exactly as well as some 50 pound "audiophile wonder supply".
Some folks would like you to believe that devices that cannot benefit from a power supply upgrade are themselves somehow limited. However, from an engineering perspective, a well designed device should deliver the performance it was designed to using the power supply it was designed to be used with.
In other words, to put it more bluntly, if a device sounds better when you upgrade its power supply... Then the question you should be asking is: "Why did they sell it to you with an insufficient power supply to begin with?" (The usual answer is "To save money".... or "To allow you to make your initial purchase for less... and buy the rest of the parts you really need later".)
However, sadly, power supplies are also one of those "audiophile snake oil" things..... (Where audiophiles will always assume, often incorrectly, that "an upgrade will always help".)
Both linear and SMPS power supplies have advantages and disadvantages... and so may work better with certain equipment. And both can be designed well or badly...
Don't assume; it's bad for your wallet.
Interesting data...note that it's only 1 measure (noise) and that the issue the data shows is with the iFi Power power supply. It does not show up with a linear power supply. Most use other power supplies (I do...mine is a linear PS not a SMPS like the iFi Power). In any case, the MR and UR sound better in my system, and it's not subtle - nor was it subtle in chicagorspec's system. Mark Much merit to these words in most cases! But there is always that “should be engineered to deliver the power required to do a sufficient job.” sometimes it just a fail and others are exactly whats needed! Just ask a dozen engineers! LOL |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 30, 2018 12:03:22 GMT -5
Let us know when you hear one of these units in person, until then,,,,,enjoy the popcorn 🍿. |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 30, 2018 12:05:44 GMT -5
From online tests of the Micro-Rendu: Regarding performance: "The combination of Sonore microRendu and ifi iPower is not good news. Performance is significantly degraded by injection of AC mains input of 60 Hz and its harmonics. If you are going to use microRendu, then you should opt for a power supply like the SBOOSTER that has measured system performance that demonstrates its performance in this system. Once there, this device is useful from functionality point of view in allowing the DAC to sit remotely on a network. From audio performance point of view, the measurements do not show any improvements." Source = www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurements-of-sonore-microrendu-streamer.577/Regarding construction: "Sonore MicroRendu uses an off-the-shelf hobby CPU board as its main computing engine. A simple I/O board with a handful of regulators, some I/O hardware and a USB Hub complete the picture. There is nothing in the design that is unusual or in my opinion, necessary to get better performance out of a high performance DAC. It is the job of a high-performance USB DAC to not care what is upstream of it." Source = www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sonore-microrendu-hardware-teardown-and-review.770/Not encouraging... You might be surprised if you give it a listen. Also note that if you read a bit of the thread, some comment on a known antagonist relationship between the author and the makers of the rendu and some clear bias. Mark |
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