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Post by novisnick on Oct 30, 2018 12:08:42 GMT -5
No Mark, I don’t like that song, beat or the lyrics!
Why No, I haven’t listened to it! Why would you ask such a silly question? I just DONT like it!
Geezze! Some people!
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Post by chicagorspec on Oct 30, 2018 12:13:22 GMT -5
Nothing to add, no experience listening, just come in and roll a grenade under the door. Yawn... |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 30, 2018 12:15:27 GMT -5
Nothing to add, no experience listening, just come in and roll a grenade under the door. Yawn... A truly honest forum member! Ya gotta love this guy! 👍 |
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Post by wilburthegoose on Oct 30, 2018 14:06:21 GMT -5
So - I'm a happy camper today with my Oppo UDP-203. How would I ever get a chance to test alternatives?
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Post by novisnick on Oct 30, 2018 14:24:24 GMT -5
So - I'm a happy camper today with my Oppo UDP-203. How would I ever get a chance to test alternatives? Your happy then I’m happy for you! I’m not selling these things! LOL If you ever get the opportunity to hear them, do it! Warning, you may not be as happy as you think! LOL 🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶ENJOY THE MUSIC🎶🎶🎶🎶🎶 |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 30, 2018 14:56:07 GMT -5
So - I'm a happy camper today with my Oppo UDP-203. How would I ever get a chance to test alternatives? I was a happy camper...until I listened to something better. Then I had to have it...or better. That's what led me to owning an ultraRendu. Mark |
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Post by foggy1956 on Oct 30, 2018 15:45:32 GMT -5
From online tests of the Micro-Rendu: Regarding performance: "The combination of Sonore microRendu and ifi iPower is not good news. Performance is significantly degraded by injection of AC mains input of 60 Hz and its harmonics. If you are going to use microRendu, then you should opt for a power supply like the SBOOSTER that has measured system performance that demonstrates its performance in this system. Once there, this device is useful from functionality point of view in allowing the DAC to sit remotely on a network. From audio performance point of view, the measurements do not show any improvements." Source = www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurements-of-sonore-microrendu-streamer.577/Regarding construction: "Sonore MicroRendu uses an off-the-shelf hobby CPU board as its main computing engine. A simple I/O board with a handful of regulators, some I/O hardware and a USB Hub complete the picture. There is nothing in the design that is unusual or in my opinion, necessary to get better performance out of a high performance DAC. It is the job of a high-performance USB DAC to not care what is upstream of it." Source = www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sonore-microrendu-hardware-teardown-and-review.770/Not encouraging... Consider these devices to be like tubes, it doesn't matter what the tests say😎 |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 30, 2018 16:49:33 GMT -5
Tubes make measurable amounts of certain types of noise and distortion that some people apparently find pleasing. (There isn't a lot of mystery about the mechanisms involved.)
However, it is claimed that these devices don't actually alter the bit stream, which is the actual audio data you're listening to. I find it difficult to imaging what they might be changing that would produce an audible difference. If they produce a significant reduction in noise or jitter I would expect the tests to show that very clearly.
It would be very interesting to see exactly what they do alter. (I wonder if, for example, some people find some added jitter to sound pleasant; a lot of jitter tends to "soften" the sound, which might act to make certain types of flaws less obvious.)
As was mentioned in the article Boomzilla quoted.... a well designed DAC should be insensitive to jitter and noise - which are the ONLY things you can change besides the actual data bits themselves. (Of course, in the real world, no DAC is 100% immune, and some are far better at it than others.)
From online tests of the Micro-Rendu: Regarding performance: "The combination of Sonore microRendu and ifi iPower is not good news. Performance is significantly degraded by injection of AC mains input of 60 Hz and its harmonics. If you are going to use microRendu, then you should opt for a power supply like the SBOOSTER that has measured system performance that demonstrates its performance in this system. Once there, this device is useful from functionality point of view in allowing the DAC to sit remotely on a network. From audio performance point of view, the measurements do not show any improvements." Source = www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurements-of-sonore-microrendu-streamer.577/Regarding construction: "Sonore MicroRendu uses an off-the-shelf hobby CPU board as its main computing engine. A simple I/O board with a handful of regulators, some I/O hardware and a USB Hub complete the picture. There is nothing in the design that is unusual or in my opinion, necessary to get better performance out of a high performance DAC. It is the job of a high-performance USB DAC to not care what is upstream of it." Source = www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sonore-microrendu-hardware-teardown-and-review.770/Not encouraging... Consider these devices to be like tubes, it doesn't matter what the tests say😎 |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 30, 2018 17:15:23 GMT -5
Tubes make measurable amounts of certain types of noise and distortion that some people apparently find pleasing. (There isn't a lot of mystery about the mechanisms involved.)
However, it is claimed that these devices don't actually alter the bit stream, which is the actual audio data you're listening to. I find it difficult to imaging what they might be changing that would produce an audible difference. If they produce a significant reduction in noise or jitter I would expect the tests to show that very clearly. It would be very interesting to see exactly what they do alter. (I wonder if, for example, some people find some added jitter to sound pleasant; a lot of jitter tends to "soften" the sound, which might act to make certain types of flaws less obvious.)
As was mentioned in the article Boomzilla quoted.... a well designed DAC should be insensitive to jitter and noise - which are the ONLY things you can change besides the actual data bits themselves. (Of course, in the real world, no DAC is 100% immune, and some are far better at it than others.)
Consider these devices to be like tubes, it doesn't matter what the tests say😎 Have you personally listened to any of the products we're talking about? Mark |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 30, 2018 17:17:21 GMT -5
I haven't listened to any of the Rendu or Sotm network players (at least not that I recall). (But I have listened to far too much tube gear.  )
Tubes make measurable amounts of certain types of noise and distortion that some people apparently find pleasing. (There isn't a lot of mystery about the mechanisms involved.)
However, it is claimed that these devices don't actually alter the bit stream, which is the actual audio data you're listening to. I find it difficult to imaging what they might be changing that would produce an audible difference. If they produce a significant reduction in noise or jitter I would expect the tests to show that very clearly. It would be very interesting to see exactly what they do alter. (I wonder if, for example, some people find some added jitter to sound pleasant; a lot of jitter tends to "soften" the sound, which might act to make certain types of flaws less obvious.)
As was mentioned in the article Boomzilla quoted.... a well designed DAC should be insensitive to jitter and noise - which are the ONLY things you can change besides the actual data bits themselves. (Of course, in the real world, no DAC is 100% immune, and some are far better at it than others.)
Have you personally listened to any of the products we're talking about? Mark |
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Post by qdtjni on Oct 30, 2018 17:30:16 GMT -5
Let us know when you hear one of these units in person, until then,,,,,enjoy the popcorn 🍿. I had the sMS-200 long before you even know these kind of devices and Roon existed, my friend.  The sMS-100 even longer. |
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Post by qdtjni on Oct 30, 2018 17:34:02 GMT -5
Nothing to add, no experience listening, just come in and roll a grenade under the door. Yawn... You couldn't be more wrong, see my response to Nick. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 30, 2018 18:07:09 GMT -5
I haven't listened to any of the Rendu or Sotm network players (at least not that I recall). (But I have listened to far too much tube gear. ) Have you personally listened to any of the products we're talking about? Mark Perhaps you should listen to some...all the theory is interesting, but frankly - adding the ultraRendu was the single biggest sonic improvement I have made in my system for a long time. Why? I don't know. But, it's very repeatable. And, realize I am a very techie guy who likes to know the "why". But, in this case, I don't care. It sounds great. Mark |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 30, 2018 18:08:20 GMT -5
Let us know when you hear one of these units in person, until then,,,,,enjoy the popcorn 🍿. I had the sMS-200 long before you even know these kind of devices and Roon existed, my friend. The sMS-100 even longer. Have you heard the latest? An ultrarendu? an SMS-200 ultra? Others? Mark |
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Post by qdtjni on Oct 30, 2018 18:11:26 GMT -5
I had the sMS-200 long before you even know these kind of devices and Roon existed, my friend. The sMS-100 even longer. Have you heard the latest? An ultrarendu? an SMS-200 ultra? Others? Mark I've had an microRendu and have had an SMS-200 Ultra too. What does that have to do with the review link I shared? |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Oct 30, 2018 18:16:29 GMT -5
Have you heard the latest? An ultrarendu? an SMS-200 ultra? Others? Mark I've had an microRendu and have had an SMS-200 Ultra too. What does that have to do with the review link I shared? See my prior comment in response to yours and my comment to boom... FYI, in my listening, I found the MR to be a step up from the PC I was using, the ultrarendu to be an even bigger/more clear step up, and based on what I heard in chicagorspec's system - I suspect the signature rendu would be an even great step up (but have not heard it in my system). Mark |
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Post by qdtjni on Oct 30, 2018 18:39:48 GMT -5
I've had an microRendu and have had an SMS-200 Ultra too. What does that have to do with the review link I shared? See my prior comment in response to yours and my comment to boom... FYI, in my listening, I found the MR to be a step up from the PC I was using, the ultrarendu to be an even bigger/more clear step up, and based on what I heard in chicagorspec's system - I suspect the signature rendu would be an even great step up (but have not heard it in my system). Mark It's probably very system and room dependant but in my system with Mytek Manhattan (first I then upgraded to II) and B&W 804D3, I could hear no difference between the MR, SMS-200 and SMS-200 Ultra. Based on memory, I did find them all sounding better than SBT, all of them fed with the same LPSU. However, while they don't sound bad at all, using Roon Bridge and Dirac in a NUC (with an SoTM USB-card) fed with the same LPSU, sounds way better than any miniscule difference there might be between those devices. I've also tried with different configurations of RPIs including one with a HifiBerry board, same conclusion - The NUC with Dirac sounds way better then any of them. While I do have the SoTM USB board, I had a Mac Mini with Dirac and no such fancy UBS board, it sounded pretty darn similar. In my headphone rig, I could hear no difference at all between SOTM SMS-200 & SMS-200 Ultra when feeding my HD-800 through a Schiit Jotunheim. They sounded better then an RPI3 but to be honest I might as well have been fooled by expectation bias. In conclusion, I take full Dirac over the MR and SOTM devices any day when listening to speakers |
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Post by chicagorspec on Oct 30, 2018 18:40:46 GMT -5
Nothing to add, no experience listening, just come in and roll a grenade under the door. Yawn... You couldn't be more wrong, see my response to Nick. Maybe type something worth reading then smart guy. |
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Post by qdtjni on Oct 30, 2018 18:43:05 GMT -5
To get this thread back on track - Boom, consider using an Raspberry Pi as Roon endpoint to start with, possibly with an add-on board such as HifiBerry or similar.
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Post by qdtjni on Oct 30, 2018 18:44:53 GMT -5
You couldn't be more wrong, see my response to Nick. Maybe type something worth reading then smart guy. Maybe you should lead by example for once?  |
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