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Post by pedrocols on Dec 8, 2018 13:40:59 GMT -5
Leave mine on 24/7 just because I am lazy to keep turning on/off.
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Post by Soup on Dec 13, 2018 8:13:22 GMT -5
For those who have been waiting to give the microRendu an audition.................................................
**Inventory update** The microRendu ($649) is now back in stock and we have B-Stock microRendu ($429) available for purchase. The B-Stock microRendu have new processors, new mSD cards, new cases, new boxes, new warranty cards, and recertified I/O boards.
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Post by Boomzilla on Dec 13, 2018 17:18:47 GMT -5
Should anyone wish to try these devices, and IF you can afford the difference, I'd recommend skipping the Microrendu and jumping instead to the Ultra. I haven't heard the Ultra, so why do I recommend it? It's a cost/benefit ratio thing. The Micro is expensive (even in B-Stock) and needs a (relatively) expensive power supply to sound its best. Does the Micro make enough difference to justify that amount of money? Not to my mind. But the Lounge users of the Ultra all agree that it is significantly superior to the Micro, and for not that much more. Thus my Ultra recommendation (or a SOtM).
But if you want to try a Micro just to get your feet wet, PM me and we can negotiate on the one I'm selling. My perfect used one will still be cheaper than going new (even B-stock). But I digress...
Happy shopping!
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 13, 2018 17:27:05 GMT -5
By the way, if any of you guys playing with these devices also have a new RMC-1, it would be interesting to see if you guys hear differences between various different input devices into the RMC-1 for a specific input. E.g. comparing various different device paths pumping USB data into the RMC-1. Comparisons between different input types, say USB versus Optical S/PDIF, would be an entirely different set of tests.
Casey
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 13, 2018 17:43:48 GMT -5
Also - to those wanting a microrendu and can't get in on buying boom's, they have some b-stock in right now for a good price...just got an email about it today.
Mark
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Dec 14, 2018 16:21:37 GMT -5
Just for the proverbial record.....
The Schiit Eitr is an excellent deal for the price....
However.... note that you cannot improve the performance of a DAC beyond its own inherent limits. For example, by replacing the USB input, and using the S/PDIF input, you are still limited by the S/PDIF input circuitry, and the performance of the rest of the DAC.
Note, about halfway down, that the Audiophilleo did do far better - even with the little Modi Uber. Also note that this is NOT at all an indictment of the Eitr, which performs extremely well at its price point (the Audiophilleo II costs more than three times as much).
I think that given my current system with an old Logitech Squeeze Touch operating as a Roon Bridge into my old DMC-1 via Optical S/PDIF (because the DMC-1 doesn't even have a USB input), that this would be mostly a waste. I suppose I could invest in some kind of fancier USB to Optical S/PDIF device ( KeithL mentioned the Audiophilleo II in one of his posts) which I could then use in conjunction with something like the SOtM MS-200ultra Neo, but then I'd be spending almost $2,000 attempting to experiment with retrofitting better sound for my old DMC-1. I'd rather spend that money on an RMC-1 (or XMC-2, or RMC-1L). Casey
Casey, the Schiit Eitr is a fantastic USB SPDIF converter with galvanic isolation and a nice power supply. It only costs $179.00. I seriously doubt you can do better regardless of cost. I use one in conjunction with a microRendu into my XMC-1. Both devices improve the sound of my system, separately or together. |
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Post by wilburthegoose on Dec 14, 2018 17:12:58 GMT -5
With all due respect, what does an Eitr have to do with a Rendu?
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Dec 14, 2018 19:07:07 GMT -5
With all due respect, what does an Eitr have to do with a Rendu? Nothing, unless your DAC lacks a USB input or has a really crappy one.  |
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Post by KeithL on Dec 14, 2018 19:18:03 GMT -5
Just to clarify something you said there..... That Carly Simon album sounded awesome through the Rendu.... but you still think it sounds better on vinyl? A curious effect... As I leave my Microrendu on 24/7, and a few days have passed, I notice its differences less than I did when it was cold. Are my ears adjusting, or does the MR sound more vivid when cold? I leave my ultrarendu on 24/7 (and I left the MR on also when I had it), and I never have noticed the differences going away. In fact, the other day, after not listening several days (due to another darn sinus infection that plugged my ears up!), I sat down for a listening session and was so thrilled to hear everything still sounding awesome. I even put on Carly Simon's "Boys in the Trees" and was so happy to hear that sound fantastic. (That's another one for me that I love but the CD doesn't do the LP justice). Mark |
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Post by KeithL on Dec 14, 2018 19:46:20 GMT -5
By Jove, I think you've got it.  Let's try a little perspective here... The Raspberry Pi pretty well owns the part of the market that wants to build their own little streaming box (with various NUCs taking care of whatever's left). And, for people who want simple audio and video streaming, we have Roku, and Apple TV, and the various FireBoxes... and a host of others. And, for systems, with a variety of components to choose from, Sonos pretty well owns that market. Those three together sell a massive amount of product. And, of course, a lot of people just use a computer. And we should also not forget things like the new DTS Play-Fi ecosystem... Now we have Roon, who has become rather popular as a niche product.... Roon can be implemented in several different configurations.... And the Rendu is one solution for implementing Roon in one particular way..... And, because of it's price, it occupies its own niche (high priced Roon endpoints). So, some small percentage of Roon fans, who also happen to be audiophiles, and can afford it, MIGHT decide to choose a Rendu... Now, it's certainly true that the streaming market is huge... and bound to get bigger..... However, if you compare the streaming market to the automotive market.... Then Sonore analogous to a single company who makes really nice, but very expensive, hub caps for 1972 Pontiac Firebirds. (And a few other similar niche products.) Now, to be quite candid, the C-Media USB interface we've used in the past is a bit fussy about things like cable length... However, also to be candid, we think the USB input on the XMC-1 sounds just fine the way it is... Our newer units, including the RMC-1, use differnt DAC chips, which we think sound even a tiny bit better that the previous ones... And we've switched to the XMos USB interface - which is considerably more flexible and robust... And, to be totally honest, we think it sounds just fine, and we don't really think it needs fixing... But, since the XMC-1 doesn't do streaming, we encourage you to connect whatever streaming endpoint you prefer to one of its inputs... And that includes the Rendu... However, at least for now, we're quite content to allow Sonore to continue to own taht corner of the market. We're in the process of launching the RMC-1... And we have a new DAC on the way... And a new CD player too (the ERC-4 will have some really cool new features)... And a new headphone amp... And we really need to think about a new line of powered monitors... We're really a bit busy right now to design a streamer... I think that the argument that KeithL is making is not that Streaming Music isn't a big market, but that there are already satisfactory solutions in the market for both people who don't particularly care about sound quality (any number of Raspberry Pi and similar) and high end (Sonore Signature Rendu SE, SOtM sMS-200Ultra Neo, etc.). It's not clear that there's a place for yet another player. Moreover, supposing that there is " something" that's going on that's " better" using these high end devices, then the right answer is to figure out what that " something" is and just fix the USB (and other inputs) on the XMC-1/XMC-2/RMC-1/RMC-1L not to be so finicky. Because, honestly, it is in fact just Digital Audio Data and a Raspberry Pi-style solution should just work. If it doesn't, or it doesn't sound as good as one of the high-end solutions, figure out what's going on and fix it. Casey |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 14, 2018 21:10:15 GMT -5
Just to clarify something you said there..... That Carly Simon album sounded awesome through the Rendu.... but you still think it sounds better on vinyl? I leave my ultrarendu on 24/7 (and I left the MR on also when I had it), and I never have noticed the differences going away. In fact, the other day, after not listening several days (due to another darn sinus infection that plugged my ears up!), I sat down for a listening session and was so thrilled to hear everything still sounding awesome. I even put on Carly Simon's "Boys in the Trees" and was so happy to hear that sound fantastic. (That's another one for me that I love but the CD doesn't do the LP justice). Mark No...regular CD does not live up to vinyl (and that includes a FLAC rip of the CD streaming w/o the rendu in the chain). With my ultrarendu, it's as good as it gets. If you have read my multiple comments on the topic, you will see that I have repeatedly said that some recordings I've been listening to (for years) on CD just don't sound right, and the rendu series has consistently made them sound a lot better. Carly is one, Linda Ronstadt is another, Carole King is another. And, things I always thought sounded good now sound great. Mark |
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Post by KeithL on Dec 15, 2018 2:43:59 GMT -5
OK.... I think I get it...... But, does that mean that digital recordings, played through the Rendu, sound LIKE vinyl... Or that digital recordings ripped from CDs now sound better than vinyl - but different? I would also be curious about what you thought was lacking in the way CDs sound that the Rendu has now "fixed"..... I realize that sometimes it can be very difficult to put subtle differences into words... However, if you can actually describe what the Rendu is changing in the sound of previously not-good-sounding recordings to make them now sound good... Then perhaps we will have a start on figuring out what it's actually doing... I am also curious about two other things (forgive me if you've already mentioned them earlier in the thread). I see you have a Geek Pulse DAC (which I've never heard); have you tried it with OTHER DACs. And, since you have a Primaluna preamp, I'm curious if you've tried it in conjunction with other non-tube equipment (without any tubes in the signal chain). Just to clarify something you said there..... That Carly Simon album sounded awesome through the Rendu.... but you still think it sounds better on vinyl? No...regular CD does not live up to vinyl (and that includes a FLAC rip of the CD streaming w/o the rendu in the chain). With my ultrarendu, it's as good as it gets. If you have read my multiple comments on the topic, you will see that I have repeatedly said that some recordings I've been listening to (for years) on CD just don't sound right, and the rendu series has consistently made them sound a lot better. Carly is one, Linda Ronstadt is another, Carole King is another. And, things I always thought sounded good now sound great. Mark |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 15, 2018 9:09:44 GMT -5
OK.... I think I get it...... But, does that mean that digital recordings, played through the Rendu, sound LIKE vinyl... Or that digital recordings ripped from CDs now sound better than vinyl - but different? I would also be curious about what you thought was lacking in the way CDs sound that the Rendu has now "fixed"..... I realize that sometimes it can be very difficult to put subtle differences into words... However, if you can actually describe what the Rendu is changing in the sound of previously not-good-sounding recordings to make them now sound good... Then perhaps we will have a start on figuring out what it's actually doing... I am also curious about two other things (forgive me if you've already mentioned them earlier in the thread). I see you have a Geek Pulse DAC (which I've never heard); have you tried it with OTHER DACs. And, since you have a Primaluna preamp, I'm curious if you've tried it in conjunction with other non-tube equipment (without any tubes in the signal chain). No...regular CD does not live up to vinyl (and that includes a FLAC rip of the CD streaming w/o the rendu in the chain). With my ultrarendu, it's as good as it gets. If you have read my multiple comments on the topic, you will see that I have repeatedly said that some recordings I've been listening to (for years) on CD just don't sound right, and the rendu series has consistently made them sound a lot better. Carly is one, Linda Ronstadt is another, Carole King is another. And, things I always thought sounded good now sound great. Mark You are still a bit off. 1) CERTAIN music did not, in my opinion, make a good transition from analog to digital...what was enjoyable became a lot less enjoyable, with some unlistenable to me, The rendu fixes that, and I know enjoy that music. (I have cited specific examples in my reviews of the microrendu & ultrarendu and in many posts on this topic. 2) Other music DID make a good transition from analog to digital. Steely Dan is a good example for me, as is Miles Davis Kind of Blue. With these, the ultrarendu makes them sound EVEN better. And, in my reviews I describe the differences in detail, but the big difference is that each individual sound becomes more distinctly an individual sound vs. being blurred together with another sound. As for what's different on the "type 1's" above - the best example is Carole King and what chicagorspec said when he heard the difference. Within seconds of her beginning to sing on "Far Away", he said "who let Carole out of the coffee can". With regular digital, she sounds like she's way at the back of the stage with something muffling her sweet voice. With the rendu, there she is...on stage and un-muffled. Quite astounding. Read my reviews for more detail...the first post of each covers it. Look at my threads, look for ones that start "KlineMJ's Review of..." and you will see one for the microrendu and one for the ultra. To your questions on equipment, I have not tried it with another DAC. I own a DC-1, but it's in a different setup and I didn't feel like moving it. boomzilla compared a microrendu with 3 different DAC's (a Mytek Brooklyn I think, a DC-1, and 1 other), and it made differences with each. I have listened with non-tube amps. I have Hypex nCore monoblocks - so class D...no tubes in the chain at all...just rendu to Geek to XMC-1 in reference stereo mode to Class D to Maggies. I hear the same improvements. On DAC's, you really should hear the Geek Pulse xInfinity. I own and like the DC-1 and DAC in the XMC-1. But the Geek beats them...more clarity in the little details (along the same path of the rendu, but I'd say the DC-1 to Geek is not as big of a step as the Geek with and without a Rendu). I was surprised I liked the Geek because it has Sabre chips, and I don't like the Oppo 105 sound (I own 1 for BluRays but do not use it for 2 channel..yuck!). The Geek, to me, sounds nothing like a Sabre DAC. FYI, I was very candid with Dan and Lonnie at Emofest that I'd love for the DC-2 or other Emotiva DAC to top the Geek. They said they thought the DC-2 would and Dan suggested they give me an early version to try and give them feedback. I am still willing to do that and will keep my results confidential, so...if you have one that's near production ready, send it on up! Mark |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 16, 2018 16:11:55 GMT -5
So Mark ( klinemj), it sounds like you're saying that your Geek also benefitted from the use of the Microrndu? I'm hoping that someone who gets and RMC-1 will perform the same experiment. I'm interested to know if it's USB Input is sensitive to sources. Casey |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Dec 16, 2018 18:50:55 GMT -5
So Mark ( klinemj), it sounds like you're saying that your Geek also benefitted from the use of the Microrndu? I'm hoping that someone who gets and RMC-1 will perform the same experiment. I'm interested to know if it's USB Input is sensitive to sources. Casey Most definitely. So far, we have a lot of folks with a lot of very good/high end DAC's, like Schiit, Mytek, LH Labs, Emotiva DC-1, etc. who are hearing better sound with these devices than without. And, to be clear - while I can't say I "know" why the sound is better - I think (totally opinion) that these devices are failing to create issues that other sources do create. Net, any DAC is likely to benefit because it's not cleaning up something the DAC does wrong, it's preventing something wrong from going to the DAC. Make sense? Mark |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 16, 2018 23:25:18 GMT -5
Well, if someone with an RMC-1 reported the same thing with two different USB streamers, I'm inclined to pop for buying those two and shipping them to Emotiva so they can hear it and then start debugging what's going on with the USB Inputs ...
Casey
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Post by chicagorspec on Dec 16, 2018 23:30:12 GMT -5
Well, if someone with an RMC-1 reported the same thing with two different USB streamers, I'm inclined to pop for buying those two and shipping them to Emotiva so they can hear it and then start debugging what's going on with the USB Inputs ... Casey I can only assume you’re joking. |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Dec 16, 2018 23:53:10 GMT -5
Nope. I'd pop for it. If there's truly a difference in how things sound, then it's an interesting scientific experiment. I'd be happy to fund that.
Casey
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Post by fbczar on Dec 17, 2018 9:17:48 GMT -5
With all due respect, what does an Eitr have to do with a Rendu? You can use the microRendu and Eitr together if you want to avoid the DAC's USB input in favor of SPDIF, which is what I do with my XMC-1. I also have a Theta Gen. Va DAC. The Theta only uses SPDIF so the Eitr allows me to use the microRendu with the Theta. I think the microRendu/ Eitr combination connected to the XMC-1's SPDIF input sounds better than the microRendu connected to the XMC-1's USB input. Perhaps avoiding the USB input in favor of the SPDIF input is the key. Steve Guttenberg wrote an article for CNET in January of 2016 sound differences between digital audio connections. AES/EBU, SPDIF, USB and Toslink were discussed. He interviewed Steve Moffat of Schiit Audio, who liked AES/EBU, SPDIF and USB/Toslink, in that order and Bob Stuart of Meridian Audio who was less commitall, but had some interesting comments. Guttenberg also tested connections, cables and such as part of the article. Here is the link: www.cnet.com/news/the-audiophiliac-asks-the-experts-do-digital-audio-connections-sound-different/#ftag=COS-04-10aaa1a |
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Post by pedrocols on Dec 17, 2018 10:04:14 GMT -5
Nope. I'd pop for it. If there's truly a difference in how things sound, then it's an interesting scientific experiment. I'd be happy to fund that. Casey You do realize that despite the out come of your adventure folks are still going to hear what they hear and you are not going to change anybody's mind assuming that's your goal. |
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