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Post by MonsieurAl on Nov 20, 2019 0:23:41 GMT -5
I’m sorry but I don’t understand why unsatisfied customers don’t return the problematic unit and move on... Because I always liked my rmc-1 and we still hope that emotiva will finally release us a firmware that finally fixes the problem but with the latest firmware my passion is falling.
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Post by hsamwel on Nov 20, 2019 5:55:25 GMT -5
I’m sorry but I don’t understand why unsatisfied customers don’t return the problematic unit and move on... Because I always liked my rmc-1 and we still hope that emotiva will finally release us a firmware that finally fixes the problem but with the latest firmware my passion is falling. The hardware is fantastic, only missing a second balanced in myself. Wifi, apps and such are not needed. I have external media players that probably do the job better. But I wish bugfixing would go faster and more stable. Also they seem almost nonwilling to add features which is sad. I thought making it the best platform ever was the goal? Supporting many audio and video formats are included in being the best, also having the best GUI, most features, not only pure audio quality. You’ll have to listen to customers as well. Too many times when users have asked for a feature or a format they have been told that it can’t be done or simply, Why (how many use it)? Why is not the answer you give to a customer. You try to implement if possible (not instantly of course), if not then explain exactly why or when. The goal must be to make as many satisfied as possible? So they spread the word and more buy it.. Sales? What is the goal of the platform? Future enhancements? New formats? Emotiva needs to be more open about these things otherwise there will be frustration by users. Not exact dates or promises but design goals and planned features. Especially with an unstable platform as this is. One thing though that is fantastic with Emotiva is that they are here in the forum. How many companies have their tech boss writing on forums? However we feel about the progress of the software we should be glad about this. If Emotiva didn’t do this I guess many would have left the platform in favor of more stable products. I would like firmware updates with shorter intervals, with less fixes in each. Maybe 1-3 fixes max. Then it would be easier to understand why a bug appeared out of ”nowhere”. Now with 20-30 changes (maybe more) it’s much harder to find out why some things have changed behaviour. Also it would be easier to test the actual ”fix”. IMHO
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Post by davidl81 on Nov 20, 2019 9:18:45 GMT -5
Because I always liked my rmc-1 and we still hope that emotiva will finally release us a firmware that finally fixes the problem but with the latest firmware my passion is falling. The hardware is fantastic, only missing a second balanced in myself. Wifi, apps and such are not needed. I have external media players that probably do the job better. But I wish bugfixing would go faster and more stable. Also they seem almost nonwilling to add features which is sad. I thought making it the best platform ever was the goal? Supporting many audio and video formats are included in being the best, also having the best GUI, most features, not only pure audio quality. You’ll have to listen to customers as well. Too many times when users have asked for a feature or a format they have been told that it can’t be done or simply, Why (how many use it)? Why is not the answer you give to a customer. You try to implement if possible (not instantly of course), if not then explain exactly why or when. The goal must be to make as many satisfied as possible? So they spread the word and more buy it.. Sales? What is the goal of the platform? Future enhancements? New formats? Emotiva needs to be more open about these things otherwise there will be frustration by users. Not exact dates or promises but design goals and planned features. Especially with an unstable platform as this is. One thing though that is fantastic with Emotiva is that they are here in the forum. How many companies have their tech boss writing on forums? However we feel about the progress of the software we should be glad about this. If Emotiva didn’t do this I guess many would have left the platform in favor of more stable products. I would like firmware updates with shorter intervals, with less fixes in each. Maybe 1-3 fixes max. Then it would be easier to understand why a bug appeared out of ”nowhere”. Now with 20-30 changes (maybe more) it’s much harder to find out why some things have changed behaviour. Also it would be easier to test the actual ”fix”. IMHO I just think the #1 goal for the RMC-1 right now is for it to be more stable. They can add extra features to it after that. FWIW I find 1.7 to be a little more buggy than 1.5 was. For instance on my AppleTV 4K when watching ATT Now app I don't get any sound, so I have to switch the input a few times and it finally gets an audio lock. I did not have that issue with 1.5. Also Dirac needs to be done as soon as they can (and I realize that Emotiva is not in control of that 100%). After they get those two things done then look at adding DTS-X Pro and maybe a legit web based setup. The Monoprice HTP-1 looks like it will be out any day now. They have actual live units out as betas and what they are reporting is pretty good. Dirac is working, the web based setup is solid, HDMI handshakes are legit etc. I like the RMC-1 and the sound is amazing, but it can be a big ask for customers to always have to do these workarounds to get that sound.
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Post by rbk123 on Nov 20, 2019 9:59:06 GMT -5
I would like firmware updates with shorter intervals, with less fixes in each. Maybe 1-3 fixes max. Then it would be easier to understand why a bug appeared out of ”nowhere”. Now with 20-30 changes (maybe more) it’s much harder to find out why some things have changed behaviour. Less and sooner is definitely the way to go and what they should change too. When you take on too many fixes, the amount of code change causes the likelihood to break something that was working to go up exponentially.
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Post by hsamwel on Nov 20, 2019 10:15:53 GMT -5
Yes, fixing bugs and stabilize the product is of course prio 1. But as many have stated before, how long can it take? Emotiva should prioritize sound and input issues before addressing things like oled display flashing. Also release smaller increases, like 1.7.1, 1.7.2 and so on with 1-2 fixes in each so each fix can be fully tested by users. Because it seems we don’t have the same problems Emotiva have. Then when they feel 1.7.x feels stable enough they can release a stable release 1.8. This way users that don’t want to test each stage can wait until next stable release.
I have noticed that with firmware 1.7 I have less problems with no audio at start. But instead I get no audio when changing input. This is not a hdmi issue because I have this with balanced in and analog 1 as well. To get audio back I have to change input and back. Before it didn’t matter which input I changed to, now with 1.7 I have to follow the type. If I don’t get hdmi audio I need to change to another hdmi input and back. Same with the analog inputs. If I don’t get audio through balanced in changing to hdmi input and back makes no difference.
Anyone else noticed this?
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Post by cwt on Nov 20, 2019 11:49:34 GMT -5
Less and sooner is definitely the way to go and what they should change too. When you take on too many fixes, the amount of code change causes the likelihood to break something that was working to go up exponentially. Yes definitely ;as suggested many moons ago . The cary 11a had many issues that required new firmwares [even some eerily like a robotic staccato noise]but it was always a couple at a time and the time taken overall was not an impediment to eventual success .. Disheartening to read for prospective owners as well ;at least those without patience who see other brands looming..
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 9,949
Member is Online
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Post by KeithL on Nov 20, 2019 12:03:37 GMT -5
As for that first question... How long could it take to proofread a fifty volume set of encyclopedia... So that not a single spelling or grammar error remains... (Knowing that a single misplaced comma or period could cause the entire thing to stop working.)
Yes, we really are talking about something that complex and that particular...
Luckily, software is rather more modular, and some very powerful tools exist that make the job a little easier...
As for the second question... We do compile interim releases and test them... Some are provisionally approved and passed on to our beta testers...
Then, when they're good enough, we release them to the public. ("Three digit versions" usually remain internal, while "two digit increments" like "1.7" generally constitute something worth releasing to the public.)
The fact is that we are not a software company... We have no desire to issue "the release of the day" like some software companies actually do...
And most of our customers have no desire to study a journal of updates every day to decide which update to try...
(And, to be honest, if we spent all our time doing that, we'd have less time left to actually find and fix those bugs.)
Yes, fixing bugs and stabilize the product is of course prio 1. But as many have stated before, how long can it take? Emotiva should prioritize sound and input issues before addressing things like oled display flashing. Also release smaller increases, like 1.7.1, 1.7.2 and so on with 1-2 fixes in each so each fix can be fully tested by users. Because it seems we don’t have the same problems Emotiva have. Then when they feel 1.7.x feels stable enough they can release a stable release 1.8. This way users that don’t want to test each stage can wait until next stable release. I have noticed that with firmware 1.7 I have less problems with no audio at start. But instead I get no audio when changing input. This is not a hdmi issue because I have this with balanced in and analog 1 as well. To get audio back I have to change input and back. Before it didn’t matter which input I changed to, now with 1.7 I have to follow the type. If I don’t get hdmi audio I need to change to another hdmi input and back. Same with the analog inputs. If I don’t get audio through balanced in changing to hdmi input and back makes no difference. Anyone else noticed this?
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Nov 20, 2019 12:13:38 GMT -5
Simple answer...
We had originally planned to give away a set of adapters with each unit...
Plans change... We are currently not including a set of adapters with each processor...
Okay, so I have a question that I think warrants some clarification. When the RMC-1 was first shown to only have XLR outputs, some people questioned this or didn't like it. To answer their question and squelch the issue, Dan promised that each RMC-1 would come with 16 XLR to RCA adapters shipped in the box. November 2018 the first units shipped and no adapters were included. To answer then what the deal was, someone from Emotiva (I forget who exactly, but it was probably near the beginning of this thread) said that the adapters were not ready yet, but would be soon, probably early 2019, and would be made available to RMC-1 owners who requested them. Now, 11 months later, the adapters are finally available, and in the RMC-1 thread you are saying they are $8 each. So, are they still free for RMC-1 owners as Dan said they would be, but for RMC-1L and XMC-2 owners they are $8 each? Or, have minds changed again at Emotiva and they are now $8 each regardless of which unit you own? I think the $8 each is a very fair price for what appears to be a nice solid adapter, something I might considering purchasing on my own sans Emotiva processor. But I think there may be some RMC-1 owners expecting their adapters to be free, as they were originally promised. So clarification would be appreciated. So KeithL , some time has passed now and you have yet to answer my question. 15 people have "liked" my post so there is interest in getting clarification. Can you please clarify with a definitive answer? Note: I do not agree with people saying this is a "just call Emotiva" question. There are many many occasions where that is true. This is not one of them. I have already answered why in a previous post. You are clarifying in great length over in the trade in thread, so I think this one should be much easier. Thanks - Bonzo
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Post by MonsieurAl on Nov 20, 2019 13:21:16 GMT -5
Hi, it's not normal that after a year of commercialization of the rmc-1 that we still have to fix bugs, in my opinion but it remains that my opinion the rmc-1 to a serious design problem hardware level and it is for this reason that the development does not advance.
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Post by rbk123 on Nov 20, 2019 13:39:00 GMT -5
The fact is that we are not a software company... We have no desire to issue "the release of the day" like some software companies actually do... I think most reasonable would understand there's a difference between a daily release and the several months between firmware versions that you currently perform. The suggestion is to crank out a much smaller number of fixes and deploy sooner, than a larger number later. Whether you are a software company or not, the effort will be the same, and actually will be greater if you go with your current approach of bigger/longer. There's a reason why software companies are changing to shorter/sooner as it's the whole Agile/Waterfall transformation going on in the industry.
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Post by hsamwel on Nov 20, 2019 15:27:23 GMT -5
Damn, after doing some tests with firmware 1.7.. Video Remains On is now unusable. With it on RMC.started to lag incredibly taking several minutes to execute commands. Eventually I managed to restart it, only for it to take close to 10 minures to start. After It had started entering the setup was the same speed it usually is. I changed to lower power mode. And now everything seems to work again.
I had no problems at all using Video Remains On with 1.5 for several weeks between full restarts.
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Post by retrobill on Nov 20, 2019 15:38:46 GMT -5
I have searched the App Store and cant find the RMC-1 app for iPhone. Where do I find it?
Thanks!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 15:45:18 GMT -5
Enter the search term "Emotiva". There then appears the app XMC remote. Especially for the RMC-1 there is no app. I have searched the App Store and cant find the RMC-1 app for iPhone. Where do I find it? Thanks!
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Post by mick on Nov 20, 2019 15:46:10 GMT -5
As for that first question... How long could it take to proofread a fifty volume set of encyclopedia... So that not a single spelling or grammar error remains... (Knowing that a single misplaced comma or period could cause the entire thing to stop working.)
Yes, we really are talking about something that complex and that particular...
Luckily, software is rather more modular, and some very powerful tools exist that make the job a little easier...
As for the second question... We do compile interim releases and test them... Some are provisionally approved and passed on to our beta testers...
Then, when they're good enough, we release them to the public. ("Three digit versions" usually remain internal, while "two digit increments" like "1.7" generally constitute something worth releasing to the public.)
The fact is that we are not a software company... We have no desire to issue "the release of the day" like some software companies actually do...
And most of our customers have no desire to study a journal of updates every day to decide which update to try...
(And, to be honest, if we spent all our time doing that, we'd have less time left to actually find and fix those bugs.)
Yes, fixing bugs and stabilize the product is of course prio 1. But as many have stated before, how long can it take? Emotiva should prioritize sound and input issues before addressing things like oled display flashing. Also release smaller increases, like 1.7.1, 1.7.2 and so on with 1-2 fixes in each so each fix can be fully tested by users. Because it seems we don’t have the same problems Emotiva have. Then when they feel 1.7.x feels stable enough they can release a stable release 1.8. This way users that don’t want to test each stage can wait until next stable release. I have noticed that with firmware 1.7 I have less problems with no audio at start. But instead I get no audio when changing input. This is not a hdmi issue because I have this with balanced in and analog 1 as well. To get audio back I have to change input and back. Before it didn’t matter which input I changed to, now with 1.7 I have to follow the type. If I don’t get hdmi audio I need to change to another hdmi input and back. Same with the analog inputs. If I don’t get audio through balanced in changing to hdmi input and back makes no difference. Anyone else noticed this? I think releasing 1 or 2 FW updates at a time is an excellent idea, this is called a process of elimination, it may take a little ( and i mean little) longer but you'll know when each bug is fixed correctly.
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Post by theblackangus on Nov 20, 2019 18:19:03 GMT -5
As for that first question... How long could it take to proofread a fifty volume set of encyclopedia... So that not a single spelling or grammar error remains... (Knowing that a single misplaced comma or period could cause the entire thing to stop working.)
Yes, we really are talking about something that complex and that particular...
Luckily, software is rather more modular, and some very powerful tools exist that make the job a little easier...
As for the second question... We do compile interim releases and test them... Some are provisionally approved and passed on to our beta testers...
Then, when they're good enough, we release them to the public. ("Three digit versions" usually remain internal, while "two digit increments" like "1.7" generally constitute something worth releasing to the public.)
The fact is that we are not a software company... We have no desire to issue "the release of the day" like some software companies actually do...
And most of our customers have no desire to study a journal of updates every day to decide which update to try...
(And, to be honest, if we spent all our time doing that, we'd have less time left to actually find and fix those bugs.)
If your software is 50 volumes of encyclopedia you are doing something wrong.
And like it or not you *ARE* a software company.... you became one when you started selling something that required you to write software.
Time to start acting like a software company, this level of continued problems indicates a systemic management issue where leadership isn't taking responsibility and bringing in the right resources to solve the problem(s).
Since the whole processor product line relies on this software, you need to bring in the right talent to solve the problems instead of trying to flounder through it and risking getting a reputation so bad that no-one would recommend your products.
I know at least a couple people locally who have now said - With the responses from Emotiva on the RMC-1 problems (on this forum) they won't likely ever buy another processor from Emotiva, and both have gone on to buy something else.
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Post by TDifEQ on Nov 20, 2019 19:19:14 GMT -5
^^^ Tough love, but accurate
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Post by petew on Nov 20, 2019 19:30:44 GMT -5
^^^^ I'll say accurate. A software company in dire need of a communication director. Every post from Keith takes me one step closer to deleting my profile here, never to return to this forum again, nor buy another Emotiva product.
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Post by SteveH on Nov 20, 2019 19:35:24 GMT -5
I have had my Emotiva system for about one year now. I am upgraded to 1.7. I was just listening to my music with the RMC-1 in Direct with the volume set to -10dB, My volume limit has always been set to -5dB with no issues. I simultaneously blew a fuse in the left main speaker and the left subwoofer. This is a new one for me, I have never blown a fuse until tonight!
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 859
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Post by richb on Nov 20, 2019 19:41:08 GMT -5
Hopefully, the issues remaining are software problems and not hardware problems. If Emotiva processors are to succeed, it will have to fix these software problems.
- Rich
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Post by rbk123 on Nov 20, 2019 21:23:43 GMT -5
^^^^ I'll say accurate. A software company in dire need of a communication director. Every post from Keith takes me one step closer to deleting my profile here, never to return to this forum again, nor buy another Emotiva product. While I don't always agree with Keith, this is more than a little harsh. He is correct more often than he's wrong and a lot of people have benefited by his responses on here, myself included.
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