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Post by mikoz on Feb 25, 2020 23:09:45 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I have had to hard reset my processor. I has been a lot better since 1.8, but just now, after hours of Xbox game play, I closed my game and started the Amazon Prime app. I started a movie and had no sound. This has actually never happened to me before and doesn't make sense. I switched inputs and then back and it never went back. The processor was locked up. I hit the power button on the remote and about 45 seconds later, both amps turned off, but the RMC just stayed frozen. I did a hard reset and everything is back to normal. What frustrates the hell out of me is that I had to reboot the unit 3 times to get the network link to work. But... That doesn't appear to be a real problem. oh...i wasn't thru apparently. After going through that nightmare, I finally can sit back down to watch my show and the sound doesn't work now. I go to switch inputs, and boom, no signal on anything. And guess what? I've never heard this noise people talk about all the time, I just heard it switching inputs. If you can't tell, I'm pretty frustrated right now. I've edited my post to remove some of the frustration. Aren’t you one of the people giving thumbs up to peoples posts calling me out? You’re just a small distance away from being in the same camp. When you tell emotiva of these problems and they dismiss it, you’ll start to feel the same way. And oh by the way, when you input a 1khz tone and it comes out with massive spurs line that, it’s not normal and it’s not good. There no other way to defend it. You’ll eventually notice it. If you want me to go away, just give me the discount card back. The simple fact is that you can’t resell an rmc1 for even 3k. With the actual bench results finally being released, it’s only going to get tougher. I don’t understand how anyone says it’s not something they agree with. Give me the discount card or better yet appropriate compensation and I’ll not only go away I’ll do your laundry for a week.
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Post by Mikomill on Feb 25, 2020 23:53:43 GMT -5
oh...i wasn't thru apparently. After going through that nightmare, I finally can sit back down to watch my show and the sound doesn't work now. I go to switch inputs, and boom, no signal on anything. And guess what? I've never heard this noise people talk about all the time, I just heard it switching inputs. If you can't tell, I'm pretty frustrated right now. I've edited my post to remove some of the frustration. Aren’t you one of the people giving thumbs up to peoples posts calling me out? You’re just a small distance away from being in the same camp. When you tell emotiva of these problems and they dismiss it, you’ll start to feel the same way. And oh by the way, when you input a 1khz tone and it comes out with massive spurs line that, it’s not normal and it’s not good. There no other way to defend it. You’ll eventually notice it. If you want me to go away, just give me the discount card back. The simple fact is that you can’t resell an rmc1 for even 3k. With the actual bench results finally being released, it’s only going to get tougher. I don’t understand how anyone says it’s not something they agree with. Give me the discount card or better yet appropriate compensation and I’ll not only go away I’ll do your laundry for a week. Now you’re admitting you’re a troll and you won’t go away until we pay you. Thank for another useful post.
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Post by urwi on Feb 26, 2020 2:01:00 GMT -5
Measurements aren't opinions. They don't have a degree of uncertainty or subjectivity attached to them. Opinions do. AFAIK AP allows only tests that adhere to industry standards. That's the whole point of using it. Not sure how one can run these tests "in his own way". You either run them through AP or you don't. If two people run the same test under the same condition and the results differ then it's caused by the DUT. Operator error and defective test equipment excluded. Why don't you post the AP measurements you already have? We should be able to find and scroll to the relevant charts. If you followed standard industry practices the old document should still be valid, right? I have to admit I'm a little surprised at all the varying comments about the review. I guess it shouldn't because people are passionate about this. So please indulge me for a minute and allow me to give you my perspective. His review, at least in how I see it, is his opinion of the unit just like everyone else. That is to say, everyone who has one of our processors, amps, pre-amps, CD-player and on has an opinion about it be it good, bad or indifferent. The only difference is his review has some AP test with it. The AP is a very powerful tool that was designed to standardize the industry and for all practical purposes has, if you use the standardized test. We run the same test in the same way as virtually every other audio company in the world. He sees things differently and has chosen to run his own test in his own way. I'm not saying he's wrong or right, its simply different. Just like everyone's opinion of their gear is different. For me, I respect his opinion, but I don't agree with it. I know what our gear does and the specs we get far exceed what he is showing and on that note, I have to apologize for not getting those posted today. We were running test for one of the licensed technology providers (i.e. DTS) and were not able to get them posted. I'm sorry but when they call, we jump. . We will get up early tomorrow and you can decide for yourselves. As always, thanks very much for all the support, Lonnie
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Post by bluescale on Feb 26, 2020 2:36:13 GMT -5
I read the asr review and thought these measurements couldn't be right. According to amir, the rmc is inferior on most points compared to my scarlett 2i2 gen3. So i plugged the 2i2 on to my rmc (symetric analog) and couldn't see big differences compared to 2i2 without rmc-1. (rightmark aa and rew). BUT: over hdmi, usb or spdif i got the same results like amir... Same nasty spikes and thd of 0.00219% Compared to the 2i2 with a thd of 0.00072% something with the rmc is wrong. Has the rmc-1 an analog passtruh from analog in to out? Is someting else wrong with syncing inside? Over USB the rmc has sharp dips at about 5.2khz and 16khz. Not over hdmi or analog. Hopefully this post does t get lost in all the back and forth.
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Post by SOWK on Feb 26, 2020 4:20:47 GMT -5
Well since Amirm will not be bothered to read or respond to my post on how to fix the potential issues...
Im not going to listen to an “Expert” that cant even get HDMI working.
He says its not a setup issue and cant even get HDMI working... LMAO... what the hell do you call that then? I call that a damn setup issue....
If you read this Amirm... POST #79 on your thread.
Otherwise you are fighting with people and Emotiva for possibly no reason.
Also Emotiva... you are not innocent here either.
Your processor is so buggy that it likely needs a full power cycle to measure correctly. Just because the unit is in “Stereo” or “Reference Stereo” doesn’t mean the unit is actually in those modes. Just switching modes and the unit can start doing weird strange things.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 26, 2020 5:15:30 GMT -5
Measurements aren't opinions. They don't have a degree of uncertainty or subjectivity attached to them. Opinions do. AFAIK AP allows only tests that adhere to industry standards. That's the whole point of using it. Not sure how one can run these tests "in his own way". You either run them through AP or you don't. If two people run the same test under the same condition and the results differ then it's caused by the DUT. Operator error and defective test equipment excluded. Why don't you post the AP measurements you already have? We should be able to find and scroll to the relevant charts. If you followed standard industry practices the old document should still be valid, right? I have to admit I'm a little surprised at all the varying comments about the review. I guess it shouldn't because people are passionate about this. So please indulge me for a minute and allow me to give you my perspective. His review, at least in how I see it, is his opinion of the unit just like everyone else. That is to say, everyone who has one of our processors, amps, pre-amps, CD-player and on has an opinion about it be it good, bad or indifferent. The only difference is his review has some AP test with it. The AP is a very powerful tool that was designed to standardize the industry and for all practical purposes has, if you use the standardized test. We run the same test in the same way as virtually every other audio company in the world. He sees things differently and has chosen to run his own test in his own way. I'm not saying he's wrong or right, its simply different. Just like everyone's opinion of their gear is different. For me, I respect his opinion, but I don't agree with it. I know what our gear does and the specs we get far exceed what he is showing and on that note, I have to apologize for not getting those posted today. We were running test for one of the licensed technology providers (i.e. DTS) and were not able to get them posted. I'm sorry but when they call, we jump. . We will get up early tomorrow and you can decide for yourselves. As always, thanks very much for all the support, Lonnie I thought he said it was 250 pages and wanted to summarize?
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 26, 2020 6:08:39 GMT -5
I'm not an owner, but I have seen live demo of running through menus doing updates. At Emotiva on Tech Day, Damon gave a demo of how to set up the RMC-1 and change things in setup. I didn't notice any lag really at all the way he did it, and I keep wondering if there's a "trick" that explains why it went so fast for him yet so many complain about this aspect. What I noticed him doing was doing a series of quick clicks (to the right or up/down) instead of click, wait, click, wait. It seemed to be allowing him to just jump right past various options to get where he needed. Then, once he stopped - there was a short delay as the new setting took hold. That required knowing the setup menu structure quite well, which he clearly does. But, it seemed very fast to me, so I've always wondered what people are talking about. Have you tried that? Perhaps others who were there and saw this and also have one could comment on whether I'm mis-remembering this or not. Mark Mark, I think I know what the deal is. There used to be a lag in the menu and operating system, so we added the please wait. But we have refined the code considerably where the menu no longer has lag and switching times are the same as the other companies using the Panasonic video chips, but we still have the please wait in the system. So I believe its a perception issue. We are going to pull the please wait on the next round of code. It’s just buried deep into a lot of different places, so removing it will be a surgical thing that needs to be tested really well. Lonnie Excuse me Lonnie.. But no! It’s not the Please Wait that irritates me.. It’s the actual live update of every option I enter.. Especially input and speaker settings. I’d like the settings to become active when I go out of that menu section so it becomes ALOT faster. Also if I’m listen to music and just want to change a couple of things fast in input settings RMC changes the input as soon as I go to each input in the list.. And no, it isn’t fast! Remove the Please Wait and it would be as slow as before.. Input settings IS NOT a input selector, but it has become one IMO you should work on the UI making it simpler and faster. Example to tick Reference Stereo why do I have to enter it press up and then out.. Just a simple enter/OK and auto exit would be simpler and faster..
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Post by urwi on Feb 26, 2020 6:13:52 GMT -5
No. He said the original report is 250 pages but he told Ray to remeasure a subset and comment. I'm fine with browsing a 250 pages document. Would only take a couple of minutes to find the relevant data as they are standardized tests. I thought he said it was 250 pages and wanted to summarize?
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Feb 26, 2020 6:24:17 GMT -5
Mark, I think I know what the deal is. There used to be a lag in the menu and operating system, so we added the please wait. But we have refined the code considerably where the menu no longer has lag and switching times are the same as the other companies using the Panasonic video chips, but we still have the please wait in the system. So I believe its a perception issue. We are going to pull the please wait on the next round of code. It’s just buried deep into a lot of different places, so removing it will be a surgical thing that needs to be tested really well. Lonnie Excuse me Lonnie.. But no! It’s not the Please Wait that irritates me.. It’s the actual live update of every option I enter.. Especially input and speaker settings. I’d like the settings to become active when I go out of that menu section so it becomes ALOT faster. Also if I’m listen to music and just want to change a couple of things fast in input settings RMC changes the input as son as I go to each input in the list.. And no, it isn’t fast! Remove the Please Wait and it would be as slow as before.. Input settings IS NOT a input selector, but it has become one IMO you should work on the UI making it simpler and faster. Example to tick Reference Stereo why do I have to enter it press up and then out.. Just a simple enter/OK and auto exit would be simpler and faster.. Have you tried what I said? honestly, not trying to stir anything up - but I saw it live at Emotiva and it was input and speaker settings that were being changed. I didn't notice any delay when Damon did the quick click. Mark
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 26, 2020 6:53:18 GMT -5
Excuse me Lonnie.. But no! It’s not the Please Wait that irritates me.. It’s the actual live update of every option I enter.. Especially input and speaker settings. I’d like the settings to become active when I go out of that menu section so it becomes ALOT faster. Also if I’m listen to music and just want to change a couple of things fast in input settings RMC changes the input as son as I go to each input in the list.. And no, it isn’t fast! Remove the Please Wait and it would be as slow as before.. Input settings IS NOT a input selector, but it has become one IMO you should work on the UI making it simpler and faster. Example to tick Reference Stereo why do I have to enter it press up and then out.. Just a simple enter/OK and auto exit would be simpler and faster.. Have you tried what I said? honestly, not trying to stir anything up - but I saw it live at Emotiva and it was input and speaker settings that were being changed. I didn't notice any delay when Damon did the quick click. Mark What he is saying is that if you are using HDMI 3 for example and you want to make a change in HDMI 5 in the setup -> input -> HDMI 3....hit the up arrow to go to HDMI 5, the unit changes the input instead of just letting you go to that HDMI 5 input configuration to make a change while still watching/listening whatever in HDMI 3. It’s just how the menu structure is and it’s probably not trivial to make a user interface change like that. Especially with the effort they had to put in getting Dirac done which meant fixes / other enhancements had to suffer a bit. I’m still baffled at how so many other users experience issues such as a simple firmware update. I haven’t had to reset or unplug HDMI or anything- just insert my USB stick and confirm firmware update. Not sure why there is such variety among the various units.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 26, 2020 7:06:15 GMT -5
Have you tried what I said? honestly, not trying to stir anything up - but I saw it live at Emotiva and it was input and speaker settings that were being changed. I didn't notice any delay when Damon did the quick click. Mark What he is saying is that if you are using HDMI 3 for example and you want to make a change in HDMI 5 in the setup -> input -> HDMI 3....hit the up arrow to go to HDMI 5, the unit changes the input instead of just letting you go to that HDMI 5 input configuration to make a change while still watching/listening whatever in HDMI 3. It’s just how the menu structure is and it’s probably not trivial to make a user interface change like that. Especially with the effort they had to put in getting Dirac done which meant fixes / other enhancements had to suffer a bit. I’m still baffled at how so many other users experience issues such as a simple firmware update. I haven’t had to reset or unplug HDMI or anything- just insert my USB stick and confirm firmware update. Not sure why there is such variety among the various units. I haven't either. Some people have had issues with bad USB sticks or ones that the unit would not recognize of play well with. I did have a firmware update "freeze" on me, I think it was 1.7, and I ended up shutting it down after a half hour figuring it was stuck. I was worried that I would brick it, but that didn't happen. I haven't had an issue since.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 26, 2020 7:08:08 GMT -5
No. He said the original report is 250 pages but he told Ray to remeasure a subset and comment. I'm fine with browsing a 250 pages document. Would only take a couple of minutes to find the relevant data as they are standardized tests. I thought he said it was 250 pages and wanted to summarize? Thank you for the correction. Hopefully you will get your report today.
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Post by steelman1991 on Feb 26, 2020 7:09:22 GMT -5
Have you tried what I said? honestly, not trying to stir anything up - but I saw it live at Emotiva and it was input and speaker settings that were being changed. I didn't notice any delay when Damon did the quick click. Mark What he is saying is that if you are using HDMI 3 for example and you want to make a change in HDMI 5 in the setup -> input -> HDMI 3....hit the up arrow to go to HDMI 5, the unit changes the input instead of just letting you go to that HDMI 5 input configuration to make a change while still watching/listening whatever in HDMI 3. It’s just how the menu structure is and it’s probably not trivial to make a user interface change like that. Especially with the effort they had to put in getting Dirac done which meant fixes / other enhancements had to suffer a bit. I’m still baffled at how so many other users experience issues such as a simple firmware update. I haven’t had to reset or unplug HDMI or anything- just insert my USB stick and confirm firmware update. Not sure why there is such variety among the various units. I'm in a similar boat Lsc - any upgrades I've done have been hassle free (but I've also been one of the lucky ones to have hassle free usage as well). Clearly some owners need to use the menu after initial set-up, but I'm curious what for?. Once I've set-up the system, I could count on the fingers of one hand the times I've been back into it and when I have, for testing after 1.8 it's been very reactive. I just don't see the whole "menu" as an issue - appreciate others do though. Just curious what the usage scenarios are that require constant change.
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hi
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Post by hi on Feb 26, 2020 7:13:41 GMT -5
Some Pictures: Analog HDMI USB P.S.: These are just quick measurements to double check the review... I read the asr review and thought these measurements couldn't be right. According to amir, the rmc is inferior on most points compared to my scarlett 2i2 gen3. So i plugged the 2i2 on to my rmc (symetric analog) and couldn't see big differences compared to 2i2 without rmc-1. (rightmark aa and rew). BUT: over hdmi, usb or spdif i got the same results like amir... Same nasty spikes and thd of 0.00219% Compared to the 2i2 with a thd of 0.00072% something with the rmc is wrong. Has the rmc-1 an analog passtruh from analog in to out? Is someting else wrong with syncing inside? Over USB the rmc has sharp dips at about 5.2khz and 16khz. Not over hdmi or analog. Hopefully this post does t get lost in all the back and forth.
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 26, 2020 7:20:03 GMT -5
Excuse me Lonnie.. But no! It’s not the Please Wait that irritates me.. It’s the actual live update of every option I enter.. Especially input and speaker settings. I’d like the settings to become active when I go out of that menu section so it becomes ALOT faster. Also if I’m listen to music and just want to change a couple of things fast in input settings RMC changes the input as son as I go to each input in the list.. And no, it isn’t fast! Remove the Please Wait and it would be as slow as before.. Input settings IS NOT a input selector, but it has become one IMO you should work on the UI making it simpler and faster. Example to tick Reference Stereo why do I have to enter it press up and then out.. Just a simple enter/OK and auto exit would be simpler and faster.. Have you tried what I said? honestly, not trying to stir anything up - but I saw it live at Emotiva and it was input and speaker settings that were being changed. I didn't notice any delay when Damon did the quick click. Mark I have seen the video of Damon using it. He simply does multiple presses to jump forward. It’s a gap of about a second until RMC enters the input when you cycle through the list. The same you cycle through inputs or modes with the remote. When he stops RMC will still show a Please Wait and change the input (2-3 seconds).. But he still presses the next option in advance so feel quicker. The difference being that he is extremely used to navigating through the settings and knows exactly how many presses to do. Also he stops and talks alot between so you’ll not notice it the same way as if you did it yourself. My main point is STILL it shouldn’t change inputs live as you enter settings.. It ’s not the lagging that’s the real issue. But removing this live update WILL add speed.. So good both ways..
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Post by bolle on Feb 26, 2020 7:38:54 GMT -5
hi: Thank you! Kind of shocking if anyone with a $150 sound card can measure that...
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timg
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Post by timg on Feb 26, 2020 8:21:46 GMT -5
Some Pictures: HDMI P.S.: These are just quick measurements to double check the review... Very interesting that you have the exact same rising THD+N at low frequencies and added signals at 250 and 500 hz (1/4 and 1/2 of the input frequency). This seems to confirm the ASR measurements. Tim
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Post by mgbpuff on Feb 26, 2020 8:55:38 GMT -5
"Very interesting that you have the exact same rising THD+N at low frequencies and added signals at 250 and 500 hz (1/4 and 1/2 of the input frequency). This seems to confirm the ASR measurements.
Tim"
1. Amir didn't use HDMI - he couldn't get it to work. 2. The 250kz and 500khz peaks don't show up on analog, only on digital, which to me points to a digital problem with either the DUT or the compatibility between DUT and tester set up. 3. If this is what happens with digital vs analog, I'm going back to vinyl. Ha,ha! 4. I'm amazed about how many people have $30,000 APs.
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hi
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Post by hi on Feb 26, 2020 9:08:50 GMT -5
Or the RMC - 1 has a direct Analog to Analog Path... A Testing compatibility issue i think is unlikely, because i have used a standard sound interface, on ASR he used completely different test equipment (way better equipment) with comparable results. I hope it is some sort of timing or such a issue which is fixable by firmware... Btw: I also had trouble to make useful measurements over HDMI, because the RMC-1 takes extremely long to sync on a signal. Because of that a part of the beginning from the measurement was missing. To resolve this, a extra "keep stream alive" between measuring signals was necessary. "Very interesting that you have the exact same rising THD+N at low frequencies and added signals at 250 and 500 hz (1/4 and 1/2 of the input frequency). This seems to confirm the ASR measurements. Tim" 1. Amir didn't use HDMI - he couldn't get it to work. 2. The 250kz and 500khz peaks don't show up on analog, only on digital, which to me points to a digital problem with either the DUT or the compatibility between DUT and tester set up. 3. If this is what happens with digital vs analog, I'm going back to vinyl. Ha,ha!
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Post by megash0n on Feb 26, 2020 9:27:35 GMT -5
oh...i wasn't thru apparently. After going through that nightmare, I finally can sit back down to watch my show and the sound doesn't work now. I go to switch inputs, and boom, no signal on anything. And guess what? I've never heard this noise people talk about all the time, I just heard it switching inputs. If you can't tell, I'm pretty frustrated right now. I've edited my post to remove some of the frustration. Aren’t you one of the people giving thumbs up to peoples posts calling me out? You’re just a small distance away from being in the same camp. When you tell emotiva of these problems and they dismiss it, you’ll start to feel the same way. And oh by the way, when you input a 1khz tone and it comes out with massive spurs line that, it’s not normal and it’s not good. There no other way to defend it. You’ll eventually notice it. If you want me to go away, just give me the discount card back. The simple fact is that you can’t resell an rmc1 for even 3k. With the actual bench results finally being released, it’s only going to get tougher. I don’t understand how anyone says it’s not something they agree with. Give me the discount card or better yet appropriate compensation and I’ll not only go away I’ll do your laundry for a week. The difference is that I'll actually box mine up and take in 30 mins down the road when I becomes unbearable. My frustrations are about the root cause of these issues, not the specific "bug" Of the day. I'll have that conversation with them when appropriate.
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