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Post by adaboy on Dec 13, 2018 12:14:36 GMT -5
From my experience Receivers can sound just as good as a prepro with separate amplifiers.
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Post by musicfan on Dec 13, 2018 12:55:38 GMT -5
100% yes!
you have to search cause not all avr brands are equal...but i have found a few (including what i have now) to be as good as the xmc-1 setup i had.
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Post by pedrocols on Dec 13, 2018 13:16:03 GMT -5
100% yes! you have to search cause not all avr brands are equal...but i have found a few (including what i have now) to be as good as the xmc-1 setup i had. Which is? |
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Post by musicfan on Dec 13, 2018 13:16:39 GMT -5
NAD T758 V3
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Post by creimes on Dec 13, 2018 13:21:39 GMT -5
I think it would depend on your system as a whole, if you had speakers that were less resolving I would say so, but of course it's our ears and our room that play the biggest factor in what we hear or cannot hear, for some receivers may sound as good for others they may not. From my experience taming in room reflections and actual room correction whether it be manual PEQ or Auto correction is what makes the biggest difference. Any receiver I have owned previous to the Anthem MRX310 did not have sufficient means of correction manual or auto.
This past weekend I pulled my Airmotiv 6s speakers out into my room on my Sanus SF26B in the spots I have marked on the carpet where I have found optimal placement for my room, I have them connected to my XMC-1 via XLR cables and my source is my MAC Mini connected USB. Listening to a full album on Reference Stereo without Dirac active sounds very good but when I switch to Stereo mode and use Dirac the sound becomes more revealing in where I can more clearly hear certain instruments due to flattening the response, though in this configuration I had to bump up certain low frequencies to my liking but not so far to having it overpower everything. I must say it takes a bit of getting used to hearing a flatter response as I am not used to it but the results in overall what I can hear in the songs is amazing.
Going back to 2010 when i was running a Yamaha RXV-1065 to Monitor Audio RX6 towers the sound I thought was really great, that's the year I found out about Emotiva and purchased two UPA-1 monoblocks, now take into effect I lived in a side by side and wasn't heavy on the volume knob and this was my first purchase outside of the standard audio gear I was used to from the local BestBuy(Then Futureshop) so i had no expectations of it being better or worse as I was totally new to all of this. I connected the UPA-1's via some standard RCA cables I had lying around, upon first listen I was amazed at how I could better hear into the songs I was so used to hearing, that was my first actual major improvement in SQ other than going to my Monitor Audio speakers from some low end Polk's.
I guess in the end it's what we each hear so it's hard to say anyone else would hear something the same as I would be it in my room or theirs, that's why I love reading reviews where a bunch of guys/gals get together and do blind comparisons of speakers and or gear.
Cheers,
Chad
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Post by Bonzo on Dec 13, 2018 13:34:41 GMT -5
My guess is most people here will tell you no.
I can say that when I added my Emotiva amps to my Denon receiver, I heard ZERO difference between using Emotiva power and the Denon internal amps.
Here's what I find amusing. Folks here and at Emotiva will basically say that separates are always better. Yet when they came out with the Fusion receiver, you didn't hear that as part of the pitch.
I'll bet money that when Emotiva does release that new receiver (I forget the name now, the one that mimics the XMC-2 but with amps inside), they most certainly sell it as sounding just as good as separates.
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Post by garbulky on Dec 13, 2018 13:39:55 GMT -5
Never heard one that sounds as good as the best separates I've heard. Not that it doesn't exist though...
Receivers as good as a pre pro? I don't have much experience with them
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Post by rbk123 on Dec 13, 2018 13:48:59 GMT -5
Haven't heard a receiver yet that could equal good separates, especially separates that have synergy with each other and the rest of the gear. Then introduce complex speaker loads and forget it. But then again, I haven't heard all receivers so anything is possible.
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Post by beardedalbatross on Dec 13, 2018 13:59:47 GMT -5
Yep. I'll say though, that the added "versatility" of separates can be of some use. If someone adds in some low-sensitivity speakers then an Adcom GFA-545 can be purchased for under $200 anyway.
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Post by emofrmcgy on Dec 13, 2018 14:16:38 GMT -5
Not a chance. Emotiva doesn’t make an avr currently. When it’s released... ABSOLUTELY.
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DYohn
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 18,342
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Post by DYohn on Dec 13, 2018 14:21:06 GMT -5
Can some receivers sound as good as some separates? Of course. But in general if you want the best sound, a receiver is not going to deliver for you. They are designed for convenience and "bang for the buck."
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Post by boomzilla on Dec 13, 2018 14:22:18 GMT -5
IMHO, yes, they can. I’ve used the Arcam AVR550 that I’d think the equal of MANY sets of separates. I’ve also had a Yamaha integrated that was a contender.
But the biggest determinant of a receiver or integrated’s sound is the speakers. Six ohms or higher impedance? Close to or above 90 dB sensitivity? No complex crossover? Probably sounds as good with a quality receiver or integrated as with separates!
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 13, 2018 14:43:21 GMT -5
As with most things, I have found that my sound systems are only as good as the weakest link. Sources, pre amps, power amps, speakers and room acoustics, with the latter 2 the ones that really determine what I hear. When I added a power amp to my AVR I already had the speakers and room sorted, so the difference was one of those rare night and day audio experiences. Changing from the AVR to a dedicated pre amp for stereo 2.1 music was almost as rewarding, the instruments just came alive. Swapping out the AVR for a processor was not so much, sure there were subtle improvements, but it wasn’t a slap me in the face wake up experience.
For me, looking back, I had pretty good AVR’s, generally top of the range of the particular brand at the time. So the improvement from the swap to the power amp was a bit of a pleasant surprise. The pre amp not so much of a surprise, I had had dedicated stereo pre amps before and I kinda expected that. What was different with the processor was that I had chosen a rather cheap (and nasty) first step, which I corrected shortly thereafter, (albeit not as expensive as my last AVR purchase) and that made a further step up in sound quality.
I still have the last AVR, it resides in my son’s apartment and back to backed with my set up now there is simply no comparison when playing music. For movies it’s not a fair comparison as it doesn’t handle the latest codecs, which is were the buck stops for me with AVR versus processor comparisons. They go out of date technically, unlike acoustics, speakers, power amps or even stereo pre amps that last for years, decades even. AVR’s and processors have a limited life span, often 3 to 4 years is a good life for their technology. Plus I hated throwing out perfectly good inbuilt power amps in AVR’s just because their processing power wasn’t up to it.
In summary, for me swapping to separates wasn’t a point in time comparison, it’s over time what that swap has enabled me to do with the whole package that makes me happy.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by teaman on Dec 13, 2018 15:08:17 GMT -5
In my personal experience I think a higher end AVR can hang with separates for home theater. For two channel, that is an extremely rare find. Not many receivers can perform as well as separates in two channel, they just have to many bells and whistles adding complication to the process.
I owned an $1800 Yamaha RX-V2700 and it gassed out anywhere near reference levels. Even though the AVR was rated by Yamaha as 140 watts per channel times seven channels, Sound & Vision bench tested it to show with seven channels driven the AVR was only putting out 47 wpc. Whenever I drove anywhere near the reference levels the sound became thinned out and pretty harsh. I would advise anyone looking into buying an AVR to at least check to see if any legit tests are out there to show you the actual power versus the rated power. The higher end Denon AVR's rated at 170 wpc bench test out around 120 wpc, which is still ample to drive most speakers to ear bleeding levels.
My other reasoning for going with separates is if you like the sound you have and a feature you like is introduced down the road you don't have to replace the entire set up, only the processor....unfortunately now the processors sell for the same as the amp equipped AVR's in most cases, but that was not always the case.
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Post by Loop 7 on Dec 13, 2018 15:23:42 GMT -5
I think separates generally top AVRs but there would be exceptions. A top end Arcam AVR compared to an entry level Integra processor and Integra amp might surprise people.
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Post by Gary Cook on Dec 13, 2018 15:39:26 GMT -5
My other reasoning for going with separates is if you like the sound you have and a feature you like is introduced down the road you don't have to replace the entire set up, only the processor....unfortunately now the processors sell for the same as the amp equipped AVR's in most cases, but that was not always the case. This is where I think Emotiva has dropped the ball big time, there is this huge gap in the range from $700 to $2,500, right in the middle of which is I believe the sweet spot for a processor. Where we can swap processors as they become obsolete and keep the quality power amp/s. In their times that's where the UMC-1 and the UMC-200 lived and thrived, they had the latest codecs and their price was such that there was not just a sound advantage in choosing them over an AVR but short and long term cost benefits as well. The MC-700 without DTS-X and Atmos is technically 2 or 3 years out of date and as a result not in the same position to replace a current spec AVR. Currently the only Emotiva offering with current technology is the RMC-1 and at $5K it's way beyond the budget of anyone remotely interested in an AVR. Cheers Gary |
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Post by 405x5 on Dec 13, 2018 18:56:06 GMT -5
From my experience Receivers can sound just as good as a prepro with separate amplifiers. Just as good under some conditions and not even close in others. Imagine if a receiver was your only option.... Bill |
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Post by emofrmcgy on Dec 13, 2018 19:02:40 GMT -5
From my experience Receivers can sound just as good as a prepro with separate amplifiers. Just as good under some conditions and not even close in others. Imagine if a receiver was your only option.... Bill Would be better than if an xmc was my only option.... |
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Post by 405x5 on Dec 13, 2018 22:51:46 GMT -5
Just as good under some conditions and not even close in others. Imagine if a receiver was your only option.... Bill Would be better than if an xmc was my only option.... Ha! (That’s my only option) |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Dec 14, 2018 2:05:19 GMT -5
The answer is in the ear of the beholder, if a receiver sounds good enough for you then yes. In my room, with my speakers, I’ll take separates.
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