cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 2, 2020 17:39:07 GMT -5
If I get a chance I will also time going from one input to another.
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Post by dlaunde on Jan 2, 2020 18:54:54 GMT -5
On the topic of the HTP-1:
For those who openly surmised it would have terrible post-launch support, the Monolith support person is now posting in the official owners thread on AVS. Of interest is an imminent firmware release that addresses a GUI glitch just reported today by a user. Along with feedback on owner questions and run down of other firmware fixes.
Off to a good start I'd say.
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Post by wilburthegoose on Jan 2, 2020 19:08:00 GMT -5
Amazing. I experience 15 seconds switch time and I’m told to change my cables? Seriously?
My cables work perfectly on my other non XMC-1 setups.
Does the XMC-1 require boutique HDMI oxygen free cables with high grade gold connectors? Or how about fiber HDMI for my 4’ run.
Cripes!
And yep. I get the irony of the recommendation 🤓
But I wouldn’t have been shocked to see it be an official response.
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Post by davidl81 on Jan 2, 2020 19:53:46 GMT -5
There is no way it takes 20 seconds to change inputs. Maybe 7 to 10 at the most. Website maintenance has improved over the years, but certainly lags behind real time. I think the "future proof" XMC-1 was a dream that unfortunately hit reality for the company. It was upgradeable to a certain extent, but has hit a wall. My current concern now is audio issues that need resolution on the XMC-2 as well as the release of Dirac. I just timed it - going from DirecTV SDR to Oppo UDP-203. 15 seconds and the normal double visual flash of the new source as it seems to be trying to lock. I am also right at 15 seconds going from XBox 1 non HDR to AppleTV 4K HDR. If I go SDR to SDR source it’s about 12 seconds. So about three seconds of the delay is the projector adjusting from a SDR to HDR signal
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richb
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Post by richb on Jan 2, 2020 21:00:53 GMT -5
One thing which I think is odd about the HTP-1 is that it doesn't have Balanced XLR Analog Inputs. Just two Unbalanced RCA sets. Other than that, it looks like a reasonable set of features for its price point. Casey The HTP-1 does not have an analog path, the RCA inputs are digitized so if they were there, XLR inputs would not be a real benefit. The HTP-1 lacks an OSD, analog path, and DSD support. Each item attracts a small slice of the market. Monoprice simplified the design and left them out to focus on HT. Emotiva has spent significant effort implementing these features and I suspect it has slowed them down as well. In Q1 2020, there will be many more 16 channel processor options and, if Emotiva has Dirac implemented it should compete well. Emotiva will no longer be the only game in town (south of 10K) but they should be able to compete well on both price and performance. - Rich
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Jan 2, 2020 21:48:04 GMT -5
Amazing. I experience 15 seconds switch time and I’m told to change my cables? Seriously? My cables work perfectly on my other non XMC-1 setups. Does the XMC-1 require boutique HDMI oxygen free cables with high grade gold connectors? Or how about fiber HDMI for my 4’ run. Cripes! And yep. I get the irony of the recommendation 🤓 But I wouldn’t have been shocked to see it be an official response. Did you upgrade your XMC1 to HDMI 2.0? When I had my XMC1, I don’t recall switching taking that long.
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Post by wilburthegoose on Jan 2, 2020 22:20:15 GMT -5
Amazing. I experience 15 seconds switch time and I’m told to change my cables? Seriously? My cables work perfectly on my other non XMC-1 setups. Does the XMC-1 require boutique HDMI oxygen free cables with high grade gold connectors? Or how about fiber HDMI for my 4’ run. Cripes! And yep. I get the irony of the recommendation 🤓 But I wouldn’t have been shocked to see it be an official response. Did you upgrade your XMC1 to HDMI 2.0? When I had my XMC1, I don’t recall switching taking that long. Yep. I think it’s slowing down over time. I’ve done a reboot with no impact And this seems to be par for the course.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Jan 2, 2020 23:19:49 GMT -5
One thing which I think is odd about the HTP-1 is that it doesn't have Balanced XLR Analog Inputs. Just two Unbalanced RCA sets. Other than that, it looks like a reasonable set of features for its price point. The HTP-1 does not have an analog path, the RCA inputs are digitized so if they were there, XLR inputs would not be a real benefit. The HTP-1 lacks an OSD, analog path, and DSD support. Each item attracts a small slice of the market. Monoprice simplified the design and left them out to focus on HT. Emotiva has spent significant effort implementing these features and I suspect it has slowed them down as well. ... Hhrrrm, the lack of DSD support is annoying — especially when the AK4493 they're using supports DSD natively. Are you sure that they're not natively supporting DSD via the built in Roon Endpoint? My personal priority is primarily music (90+%) and secondarily movies. Unfortunately I'm space constrained, so I need one solution for both. And yeah, I personally think that the On Screen Display was a mistake since it engenders so much complexity. Casey
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richb
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Post by richb on Jan 2, 2020 23:21:23 GMT -5
Did you upgrade your XMC1 to HDMI 2.0? When I had my XMC1, I don’t recall switching taking that long. Yep. I think it’s slowing down over time. I’ve done a reboot with no impact And this seems to be par for the course. Honestly, if it is possible to try a different cable or reduce the connections to identify a problematic component, it is worth trying. I have two 15' certified cables from Monoprice and one has become unreliable. - Rich
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Post by hsamwel on Jan 3, 2020 0:02:57 GMT -5
First user report it being very stable. Hdmi switch is fast and stable. CEC and ARC work as expected. It also sounds good (compared to RMC they owner reported). Dirac 2.0 is delivered with the unit. Although there are features that did not come with release. This can become a big problem for Emotiva if they don’t fix their issues soon.. Curious how it works with DSD. While that's not an issue for me, Emotiva has said they are re-coding to allow faster/more stable switching by not having to check for/account for DSD inputs. Hopefully, Emotiva will have that out soon so customers can more readily compare Emotiva options to Monoprice. (Also, 1 good user report is a good start...will be interested to see how things end up with multiple users. Might be fine or...not) Mark HTP-1 does not support DSD.. Nor does most other 16ch processors, except Emotiva and Arcam I believe. Try switching between two analog inputs.. Is it fast? Even without DSD check it will not be fast IMO.. I have no doubt it will be faster though. But it would be nice if we could get faster audio lock and get rid of the silence the first 3 seconds with video.
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Post by hsamwel on Jan 3, 2020 0:20:20 GMT -5
hsamwel . Agree 💯 Why do the Emotiva boxes take 20 seconds or more to change inputs? Why no Dirac 2 support in the future proof XMC-1. Why the possible end of the XMC-1 upgrade program? I’m losing faith in the company, other than amps. Per Lonnie, I believe, a reason for the long switching times on the RMC/et al is that they are having it check for DSD inputs before switching to avoid DSD issues. They are re-coding to have it not do this UNLESS the user says DSD may be coming from a particular source. This is supposed to decrease switching time. We'll see how much. Re. why no Dirac 2 support, they've been clear on that...for the specific chips they are using Dirac has to provide specific files needed for Dirac to work. These files are not generic and are specific to the chip used. If Monoprice uses a different chip than Emotiva is using, the files may be available. Hopefully Dirac resolves that quickly for Emotiva. Per Tech Day news, Emotiva has the files for 2 channel but not yet for multi-channel. Emotiva was hoping to get those files about now - but they are not in control of timing. Hopefully, we will have an update on that soon. Re. why an eventual end to the XMC-1 upgrade program...I'll spin that a different way. I feel grateful they offered it in the first place, and I fully expect that it would - at some point - end. They didn't have to make the initial offer, and most companies would not. Mark A Dirac emplyee has written several times on AVS that Emotiva has gotten the final code since atleast 6 monrhs ago.. After Dirac issued the press release about coding problems with the Emotiva DSP in april last year, they according to him, delivered the finished code in june. He even posted in august that he expected Emotiva would release a Dirac update very soon.. Since then Lonnie posted that there were some memory issues but that they could overcome those soon.. Still we wait. Q1 2020 is the latest ETA.
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richb
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Post by richb on Jan 3, 2020 0:26:16 GMT -5
The HTP-1 does not have an analog path, the RCA inputs are digitized so if they were there, XLR inputs would not be a real benefit. The HTP-1 lacks an OSD, analog path, and DSD support. Each item attracts a small slice of the market. Monoprice simplified the design and left them out to focus on HT. Emotiva has spent significant effort implementing these features and I suspect it has slowed them down as well. ... Hhrrrm, the lack of DSD support is annoying — especially when the AK4493 they're using supports DSD natively. Are you sure that they're not natively supporting DSD via the built in Roon Endpoint? My personal priority is primarily music (90+%) and secondarily movies. Unfortunately I'm space constrained, so I need one solution for both. And yeah, I personally think that the On Screen Display was a mistake since it engenders so much complexity. Casey At this point, I know that Roon supports 2 channel only but am not sure what formats are supported. For some reason, the Oppo 205 is not streaming DSD but the Roon conversion is acceptable. On the HTP-1 thread, DSD is not supported and not discussed. - Rich
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Post by hsamwel on Jan 3, 2020 0:27:15 GMT -5
Curious how it works with DSD. While that's not an issue for me, Emotiva has said they are re-coding to allow faster/more stable switching by not having to check for/account for DSD inputs. Hopefully, Emotiva will have that out soon so customers can more readily compare Emotiva options to Monoprice. (Also, 1 good user report is a good start...will be interested to see how things end up with multiple users. Might be fine or...not) Mark HTP-1 does not support DSD.. Nor does most other 16ch processors, except Emotiva and Arcam I believe. Try switching between two analog inputs.. Is it fast? Even without DSD check it will not be fast IMO.. I have no doubt it will be faster though. But it would be nice if we could get faster audio lock and get rid of the silence the first 3 seconds with video. Quoted instead of edit..
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Post by hsamwel on Jan 3, 2020 0:42:29 GMT -5
The HTP-1 does not have an analog path, the RCA inputs are digitized so if they were there, XLR inputs would not be a real benefit. The HTP-1 lacks an OSD, analog path, and DSD support. Each item attracts a small slice of the market. Monoprice simplified the design and left them out to focus on HT. Emotiva has spent significant effort implementing these features and I suspect it has slowed them down as well. ... Hhrrrm, the lack of DSD support is annoying — especially when the AK4493 they're using supports DSD natively. Are you sure that they're not natively supporting DSD via the built in Roon Endpoint? My personal priority is primarily music (90+%) and secondarily movies. Unfortunately I'm space constrained, so I need one solution for both. And yeah, I personally think that the On Screen Display was a mistake since it engenders so much complexity. Casey About OSD.. Volume, input and status/info is nice to have on screen.. But setup can even be better to have on a nice app or web based program. Atleast compared to the extremely irritating live update Emotiva has. Most settings does not benefit from the live update, just make everything slow.
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Post by rickavmaniac on Jan 3, 2020 2:11:36 GMT -5
Re. why an eventual end to the XMC-1 upgrade program...I'll spin that a different way. I feel grateful they offered it in the first place, and I fully expect that it would - at some point - end. They didn't have to make the initial offer, and most companies would not. Mark Agree. Emotiva is not perfect, far from it but they do stand behind what they sell. If they promesse the upgrade they will do it. Could take more time but they care for there customer no doubt about that. Sometime they do too much or talk too fast to please « us » and that return against them. It’s a small team but a very passionate and enthousiastic team. I hate when they act or talk too fast by over promising but I think they are 100% well-intended. Their customer service is great and very human oriented. They always have generous return policy, allow transferable warranty and update program like no other company. Thats all the reasons I still buy their gears.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Jan 3, 2020 2:33:53 GMT -5
Hhmmm, to not support DSD with the AK4493s with an Ethernet-based Roon Endpoint would have actually required that they do work to avoid supporting it. That's disappointing.
Casey
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Post by cwt on Jan 3, 2020 6:24:37 GMT -5
I wouldn't say the XMC-1 hit some imaginary wall of technology. From my point of view, the reality is that when they first designed what the XMC-1 became, they fully expected to build the RMC-1 off the same chip technology platform using the same external partners they had used with the XMC-1. At some point, they decided to build the RMC-1 off a different chip technology platform...and that drove them to different external partners. Upgrading the XMC-1 from the old platform to the new would require a lot more change than they previously foresaw. Or, they could have upgraded the XMC-1 within the older platform but that would have required them to be working with 2 different external partners...which doesn't make business sense. Will the RMC-1/1L and XMC-2 reach a point they can't or should not be upgraded? They likely will. But, until something like what I describe above happens, I expect they will be around for a while (longer than typical products from the big makers). I fully expect that the HDMI board will be the first hardware to change, other than whatever happens with expansion modules. Mark Yes ; it was clever to repurpose zone 2 and other outputs in the XMC1 to get to 7.1.4 but that was the limit of a 7 channel design [some critics don't remember that atmos happened after the XMC1 was released] . Looking to the future Emo realised dolby was adding new higher channel configurations [and they knew more powerful dsp's like the griffin lites were coming to facilitate this ] so it was obvious a new platform was needed that had expansion channels to accommodate this . The HTP1 was promised a hdmi 2.1 upgrade but don't expect any future main dsp processing board upgrade like most mainstream ce's .. If you want to upgrade come take a look at this wonderful ATI ATP16 ; from the same manufacturer no less www.soundandvision.com/content/ati-goes-diracThe Emo's share a common dsp board so if Emo decides on a new one a new boards r&d costs is amortised over many models
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Jan 3, 2020 7:58:22 GMT -5
Per Lonnie, I believe, a reason for the long switching times on the RMC/et al is that they are having it check for DSD inputs before switching to avoid DSD issues. They are re-coding to have it not do this UNLESS the user says DSD may be coming from a particular source. This is supposed to decrease switching time. We'll see how much. Re. why no Dirac 2 support, they've been clear on that...for the specific chips they are using Dirac has to provide specific files needed for Dirac to work. These files are not generic and are specific to the chip used. If Monoprice uses a different chip than Emotiva is using, the files may be available. Hopefully Dirac resolves that quickly for Emotiva. Per Tech Day news, Emotiva has the files for 2 channel but not yet for multi-channel. Emotiva was hoping to get those files about now - but they are not in control of timing. Hopefully, we will have an update on that soon. Re. why an eventual end to the XMC-1 upgrade program...I'll spin that a different way. I feel grateful they offered it in the first place, and I fully expect that it would - at some point - end. They didn't have to make the initial offer, and most companies would not. Mark A Dirac emplyee has written several times on AVS that Emotiva has gotten the final code since atleast 6 monrhs ago.. After Dirac issued the press release about coding problems with the Emotiva DSP in april last year, they according to him, delivered the finished code in june. He even posted in august that he expected Emotiva would release a Dirac update very soon.. Since then Lonnie posted that there were some memory issues but that they could overcome those soon.. Still we wait. Q1 2020 is the latest ETA. Emotiva says they were given the code and files necessary for 2 channel but not for surround, and they have it working in 2 channel. So, who knows which is right. And, I have never heard Emotiva firmly quote Q1 2020...where have you seen that? At Tech Day, Dan said they are hoping for that, but Dirac's work defines the timing. Mark
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richb
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Post by richb on Jan 3, 2020 10:44:06 GMT -5
Hhmmm, to not support DSD with the AK4493s with an Ethernet-based Roon Endpoint would have actually required that they do work to avoid supporting it. That's disappointing. Casey Software developers, tend to think features are easy because when they understand that it can be done with little effort. Impact on the product and support is not considered. I'd like to see all Roon endpoints support DSD and multi-channel (include Emotiva's should that come). - Rich
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Jan 3, 2020 11:30:12 GMT -5
I wouldn't say the XMC-1 hit some imaginary wall of technology. From my point of view, the reality is that when they first designed what the XMC-1 became, they fully expected to build the RMC-1 off the same chip technology platform using the same external partners they had used with the XMC-1. At some point, they decided to build the RMC-1 off a different chip technology platform...and that drove them to different external partners. Upgrading the XMC-1 from the old platform to the new would require a lot more change than they previously foresaw. Or, they could have upgraded the XMC-1 within the older platform but that would have required them to be working with 2 different external partners...which doesn't make business sense. Will the RMC-1/1L and XMC-2 reach a point they can't or should not be upgraded? They likely will. But, until something like what I describe above happens, I expect they will be around for a while (longer than typical products from the big makers). I fully expect that the HDMI board will be the first hardware to change, other than whatever happens with expansion modules. Mark Yes ; it was clever to repurpose zone 2 and other outputs in the XMC1 to get to 7.1.4 but that was the limit of a 7 channel design [some critics don't remember that atmos happened after the XMC1 was released] . Looking to the future Emo realised dolby was adding new higher channel configurations [and they knew more powerful dsp's like the griffin lites were coming to facilitate this ] so it was obvious a new platform was needed that had expansion channels to accommodate this . The HTP1 was promised a hdmi 2.1 upgrade but don't expect any future main dsp processing board upgrade like most mainstream ce's .. If you want to upgrade come take a look at this wonderful ATI ATP16 ; from the same manufacturer no less www.soundandvision.com/content/ati-goes-diracThe Emo's share a common dsp board so if Emo decides on a new one a new boards r&d costs is amortised over many models Less than $10,000 is a pretty broad range.
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