Solved

[DavidR]

The ELNA cap should be a great upgrade.

[dragonV]

Feb 2, 2019 21:05:04 GMT -5 DavidR said:

The ELNA cap should be a great upgrade.

I'm guessing counterfeits as most of the Elna, Rubycon, Nippon etc caps in these sizes seem to be 85c only. I emailed Rubycon about some others that had 105c on them, and Rubycon said the series had been out of production for years, and never came in a 105c version....sigh.

Hope to be proven wrong though, will email Elna. Cheers 👍

[DavidR]

Good Luck DragonV

Keep us posted.

[Ex_Vintage]

Curious as to why the caps are rated at 105C. For a piece of equipment that sits in a house ambient, 85C should be fine. Most applications of 105C caps are for industrial use. If you are racking a bunch of equipment with no ventilation, the 105 may be necessary, but if adequate ventilation is provided, 85C should be good. In many cases, the difference between 85 and 105 rated caps is their specified life. They use the same etched aluminum and dielectric material. Power caps in amps are usually good for 20 years or more.

[dragonV]

Feb 2, 2019 22:38:37 GMT -5 DavidR said:

Good Luck DragonV

Keep us posted.

Thanks and will do 👍

[dragonV]

Feb 2, 2019 23:01:38 GMT -5 Ex_Vintage said:

Curious as to why the caps are rated at 105C. For a piece of equipment that sits in a house ambient, 85C should be fine. Most applications of 105C caps are for industrial use. If you are racking a bunch of equipment with no ventilation, the 105 may be necessary, but if adequate ventilation is provided, 85C should be good. In many cases, the difference between 85 and 105 rated caps is their specified life. They use the same etched aluminum and dielectric material. Power caps in amps are usually good for 20 years or more.

Yeah I'm not sure why they have to be 105c. When I asked emotiva on first repair they said that there is nothing special about the power supply caps, and that they just use a 'good quality one'. They stated at the time that the only requirements were 80v or above, and 105c or above. The weird thing with the SA-250 is it runs so cool. I have barely felt it get even slightly warm in use on my open rack. It is much much cooler than my last XPA-2, or in fact any of my many previous emotiva amps. So why this amp has decided to caused me issues....who knows!


Not sure what they do now if an SA-250 gets sent in for repair. Would have to be an issue if they have no spares!!! Maybe they have just not had to deal with this problem yet, since spares ran out. Also being a 'short run limited edition' (or just made to use up old parts???) Mystery but I like to think still sounds a little special.... when it's is actually working 🤪👍

Anyway have the email here somewhere from last repair. Will look it up and see if anything else was mentioned, but from memory they were main requirements with caps. Attached is some notes from the prior repair few months back. (end of September last year). Might help out others if they run in to trouble with their SA-250.

Again this is an awesome sounding amp when working and emotiva has always provided EXCELLENT service and support. Prior to these few issues with the SA-250 and associated headaches, all was good. These things happen I guess, I'm probably just unlucky like few others that have posted with their SA-250 issues. It is frustrating no spares, but just hoping if I can supply some decent caps might be the saver with it. Time will tell. Though hoping to save it from the scrap heap, but having to spend big dollars again....hmmmmmmmm. Will have to see what the shop and emotiva say with this next repair!!

Will post back with results. Grateful for all the help, and time others have spent in replying.

Thanks!!

Attachments:

[garbulky]

So it looks like it's not just the capacitor. There is a problem with the main board that has not been fixed.

[dragonV]

Feb 3, 2019 1:29:54 GMT -5 garbulky said:

So it looks like it's not just the capacitor. There is a problem with the main board that has not been fixed.

Yes thanks could definitely be, and has me thinking now. Will still have to wait until the tech gets it back on the bench again, to get the full run down....BUT.... more I think about all of this, now even more unsure where it leaves me?

Have I accidentally shot myself in the foot by not just using an independent repairer, and going through Emotiva's local agents as they recommended? Was there any benefit in this at all, with them later telling the tech no parts were available, and him having to source them? Did this offer any guarantees doing it this way, or less than what an independent shop would have on their work? Questions questions. Best I guess to wait for this all to be answered once the tech has it back, and has consulted with Emotiva.
Hard not to start feeling a little uneasy though....only guarantee I am seeing is that my wife will make me 'pay' big time if it is to = a lot more dollars .....yikes. 🤪🤪🤪

[DavidR]

Yikes! No spare parts. I'm sure some items are replaceable but power caps and boards SHOULD have been in stock when they started selling these amps.

Warranty on my first ones is up July of 2020. I forget when I got the 2nd one. Maybe a year an a half later. I pound mine fairly hard and they barely get warm. They seem to be loafing with difficult loads.

If I ever have a problem while under warranty and I get a letter like that I'll simply say "full refund, please." It will also end my involvement with Emotiva products.

Sorry that you're having to deal with this issue instead of enjoying a great sounding amp.

[audiosyndrome]

Yes; I agree with Ex-Vintage. No need for an 105 degree C rated capacitor. Assuming room ambient to be 25 degrees C (77F), and an internal temperature rise of (maybe) 10 degrees C (18F), you're at 35 degrees C. Plenty of margin.

Russ

[DavidR]

@dragonv What is meant by O.S. Model (in reference to warranty) on the attached work slip?

[DYohn]

The difference between an 85c and a 105c rated cap in system design is less about the expected ambient or operating temperature and more about having better control over ESR and taking advantage of the materials (teflon) used in a 105c cap to get a more linear performance through the expected usage band. Any standard electrolytic with sufficient voltage range will likely work, but the designer chose the more expensive 105c cap to get a particular performance advantage.

[dragonV]

Feb 3, 2019 15:28:43 GMT -5 DavidR said:

@dragonv What is meant by O.S. Model (in reference to warranty) on the attached work slip?

Just that it wasn't purchased locally through an emotiva dealer.
So even though warranty left, I know the risks with gear not purchased through local dealers, and that it may have to be sent back for warranty issues. Emotiva could have just said to send it in as they are entitled to!! (Though now with hindsight this was the way to go haha..... dealer approved repair shop and 30 minute drive from where I live looked attractive at the time...sigh.)

I had intended just to take it to an independent shop and pay for the repair but it made sense what Emotiva told me about dealer organised repair. As I said I have no dramas with paying for the repair, you sort of factor this in to any overseas bought model. Just not real sure what will happen from here now that it hasn't worked out...If you live and bought these in the states, would sure be clearer. Though no parts would still be an issue!!!!
For me wait, cross fingers, and see how it all pans out 🤪🤪🤪

Thanks again for all replies.

[dragonV]

Feb 3, 2019 15:48:41 GMT -5 DYohn said:

The difference between an 85c and a 105c rated cap in system design is less about the expected ambient or operating temperature and more about having better control over ESR and taking advantage of the materials (teflon) used in a 105c cap to get a more linear performance through the expected usage band. Any standard electrolytic with sufficient voltage range will likely work, but the designer chose the more expensive 105c cap to get a particular performance advantage.

Cheers 👍 they did say 80v/105c, or above on these specs. Your explanation makes sense.

[ianmiddleton]

DragonV,
Best of luck mate. Hope it works out. I am in Canberra and I have an XPA-2 gen 3 in for repair with the local agent since November....still waiting for parts. Audio Active pointed me to the local agent and he has a good reputation. Getting parts in Australia for Emotiva seems to be difficult.

I recently purchased a locally built Elektra HD Reference Amp. Fantastic sound, great local rep but a little more pricey than Emotiva.

Ian

[dragonV]

Feb 4, 2019 0:07:41 GMT -5 ianmiddleton said:

DragonV,
Best of luck mate. Hope it works out. I am in Canberra and I have an XPA-2 gen 3 in for repair with the local agent since November....still waiting for parts. Audio Active pointed me to the local agent and he has a good reputation. Getting parts in Australia for Emotiva seems to be difficult.

I recently purchased a locally built Elektra HD Reference Amp. Fantastic sound, great local rep but a little more pricey than Emotiva.

Ian

Thanks mate! Emotiva has always been really good to me, this is my first major hurdle. Hoping for some luck as I really like this amp when it is working! Still that Elektra gear is really nice, and have heard really good things about Arthur's work. Something to look at if this doesn't have a positive outcome.
Cheers

[leonski]

industrial.panasonic.com/cdbs/www-data/pdf/RDF0000/DMF0000COL94.pdf

Talk with EMO about which of these will work. This is a world-class capacitor and of very high quality.

These caps are pretty much exactly what you want, dimensisons and all.

I see a comment above about it 'raining cats and dogs'.......Here in SoCal we are just drying from a WEEK of on/off rain to the tune of about 4" locally.
That's a LOT.
And you can tell it was raining cats and dogs because the ground was covered with poodles.

The big PS 'Lytics should last 2 decades or more in regular service.    

That you can get a 105c rated cap and the manufacturer says they never MADE THEM @that temp?      Kind of a massive red flag.

I personally wouldn't buy shoelaces off EPray given the reputation of fakery / fraud / counterfeit.     

Let me know if you check out the Panasonic.   

[dragonV]

Feb 7, 2019 2:55:56 GMT -5 leonski said:

industrial.panasonic.com/cdbs/www-data/pdf/RDF0000/DMF0000COL94.pdf

Talk with EMO about which of these will work. This is a world-class capacitor and of very high quality.

These caps are pretty much exactly what you want, dimensisons and all.

I see a comment above about it 'raining cats and dogs'.......Here in SoCal we are just drying from a WEEK of on/off rain to the tune of about 4" locally.
That's a LOT.
And you can tell it was raining cats and dogs because the ground was covered with poodles.

The big PS 'Lytics should last 2 decades or more in regular service.    

That you can get a 105c rated cap and the manufacturer says they never MADE THEM @that temp?      Kind of a massive red flag.

I personally wouldn't buy shoelaces off EPray given the reputation of fakery / fraud / counterfeit.     

Let me know if you check out the Panasonic.   

Thanks for reply. Biggest drama is finding somewhere that sells genuine, has them in stock, does not require a minimum bulk order. Panasonic ones would work great, I'll try and see what I can find. At the moment best found in stock, ready to ship, and meets all spec is Mundorf ones...look great but about $260 all up delivered.....ouch
Thanks!!!!

[DYohn]

Panasonic caps are really good, by the way. I used them in all my DIY amps back in the day.

Now, before you spend money, what makes you certain the amp needs caps, and that if the caps are blown it's not something else in the power supply that is blowing them?

[leonski]

Mundorf is a name. A good name, but this is an electrolytic capactitor we're talkin' about here, right?

Lot's of available stuff for WAY less than such a premium. Any hint as to WHY what is essentially a commodity item is on offer for such a wacky price?

ReRead DYohns's post. Big PS caps last a long time. What else could be going on with that amp to cause what you are seeing?