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Post by Bonzo on Apr 12, 2019 18:55:57 GMT -5
Yep, them's the headlines printed on the cover of this issue of Stereophile magazine. They also review the KEF LSX wireless speakers.
As for Emotiva, its the T2s reviewed by Thomas Norton.
Impressive company here to say the least.
More to come...
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 12, 2019 21:23:26 GMT -5
Well it was a backhanded complement for Emotiva.
That’s ok, Emotiva isn’t known for their speakers. All in all, it wasn’t a bad review but they rated the T2 below the silver Monitor Audio silver series.
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robs
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Post by robs on Apr 13, 2019 0:40:39 GMT -5
The T2's just got a price drop as well, so that makes them an even more incredible value.
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 13, 2019 14:09:58 GMT -5
Emo. For the Savy
Wilson for the deluded.
Bill
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Post by Bonzo on Apr 24, 2019 8:40:07 GMT -5
Emo. For the Savy Wilson for the deluded. Bill To each his own. Speakers are very much about personal preference, ones uses, and how much your budget will allow. There is no doubt in my mind what so ever that any Wilson speaker made sounds better than the T2. Note that I have never heard the T2 and I've only heard the lesser model Wilsons, but from what I have heard of Wilson's (the best sound I've ever heard - better than $90,000 per pair Focal's and McIntosh), I stand by my statement. The question is the "worth." Wilson's cost a lot for what you get, for sure. They are WAY out of my budget. They are like Ferrari's and Lamborghini's, all the way up to Bugatti's. My Nissan 370Z looks quite nice, performs pretty well, and was even described as the best sports car on the planet for the money by both Car & Driver and Top Gear back in 2009. But ya know, if I could afford it, I'd rather have a Lamborghini Huracan. So it's all relative. To say Wilson's are for the deluded is just rude and wrong. |
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 24, 2019 10:56:41 GMT -5
Emo. For the Savy Wilson for the deluded. Bill “To say Wilson's are for the deluded is just rude and wrong.” Don’t Cry  |
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Post by tchaik on Apr 24, 2019 11:00:31 GMT -5
Emo. For the Savy Wilson for the deluded. Bill To each his own. Speakers are very much about personal preference, ones uses, and how much your budget will allow. There is no doubt in my mind what so ever that any Wilson speaker made sounds better than the T2. Note that I have never heard the T2 and I've only heard the lesser model Wilsons, but from what I have heard of Wilson's (the best sound I've ever heard - better than $90,000 per pair Focal's and McIntosh), I stand by my statement. The question is the "worth." Wilson's cost a lot for what you get, for sure. They are WAY out of my budget. They are like Ferrari's and Lamborghini's, all the way up to Bugatti's. My Nissan 370Z looks quite nice, performs pretty well, and was even described as the best sports car on the planet for the money by both Car & Driver and Top Gear back in 2009. But ya know, if I could afford it, I'd rather have a Lamborghini Huracan. So it's all relative. To say Wilson's are for the deluded is just rude and wrong. I agree with bonzo....... I have heard the Wilson's speakers going all the way back to the Mid 80's when he premiered his WAMM speakers (at the CES in Chicago) which consisted of ready made available off the shelf drivers from a variety of speaker manufactures. John curl designed the xovers. at that time his sound was considered the best of the show except for Arnold Nudel's RS-1 series. Both were completely out of reach for most all audio consumers. But.... they did represent the best of the art and Both designers had impeccable ears when it came to voicing their respective products. it is at the Axpona conference where I have had a chance to revisit Wilson's speakers and they are still a great product for only a few lucky souls who have 6 to 7 figures to plunck down on a hobby. I also have heard the T-2's in the best possible environment (my living room) and No... they are not of the caliber of the Wilson's, but at a 1/100th of the price who would expect them to be. the T-2's are quite impressive and almost invisible with good recording material and one of the best bargains out there. on the other hand...... for Wilson's top stuff I would need a living room 6 times its present size, no wife and for my 4 adult children to pay me back for all the tuition I spent on the 4 private colleges they went to.  tchaik........ |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 24, 2019 11:11:55 GMT -5
I think the critical review stemmed from a bad interaction with the room/amps. I remember hearing a Sonus Faber Sonetto VIII ($6500) and compared it directly with the T2 ($700) in the same room and I noted the T2 had more bass extension and for the rest of the sound was very similar. Now the Sonus did have a slightly larger sound and had a bit more "solidity" in the upper bass. And of course the SF was far ahead in the looks department. So yes, it wasn't toe to toe, but the point was that this T2 was running with the big dogs without missing a beat. I remember telling B'zilla, the Sonus Faber sounds great, but I can't ignore that the T2 sounds pretty much just as good for a whole lot less - 10% of the price!
However coming back to the T2s used with differing setups, I have noticed that it matters the gear that it is driven with and also the placement makes some big differences in the sound quality and bass. In one setup, I thought the bass was a little underwhelming, while in the best setup the bass was tight low punchy and plentiful. The guy mentioned his room was "live" so I suspect it just wasn't the best match. When setup well, the T2 is astounding, appearing to dissappear and provide a large pinpoint soundfield.
These t2s are really good stuff and so it would have been nice if they got driven by a nice pair of monoblocks connected to a standalone dac just to see what it could really pull off.
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Post by routlaw on Apr 24, 2019 11:13:37 GMT -5
I've never heard any of Emotiva's speakers (but would love to) yet I have had the opportunity to extensively listen to a good many of the Wilson speakers over the years as well as a number of other highly regarded and expensive speakers. Personally I never cared for the Wilson sound (any of them), nor did I like the looks of them either, though I did appreciate and admire their attention to detail, fit and finish as well as the extensive engineering that went into each of their models. Its true the Wilson line of speakers are capable of playing with almost unbridled dynamics but to these ears the presentation seemed more like "hi-fi spectacular" rather than music. For sure anyone who reviews, let alone purchases a set of speakers at this caliber or price range, would also have some "state of the art" electronics, amps, pre-amps etc driving a pair of Wilson or equivalent speakers. And there in lies the rub, trying to compare, especially based upon this lame review in Stereophile, a pair of T2's to what ever Wilson or other pedigree speaker you desire. I can only imagine the outrage of readers from this magazine had the same reviewer used the same electronics as those for the T2's in front of a pair of Wison Audio Speakers.
Cutting to the chase I thought this review of the T2's to be pretentious and pathetic at best. Call me cynical, I am, but I don't believe for a minute this magazine would allow ink to hit the paper praising a speaker that sells for nickels, dimes or quarters on the dollar to be the equal or near so of some irrationally expensive speakers. Its just never going to happen. A far more appropriate review of the T2's would have had some of Emotiva's excellent amps and pre-amps (or equivalent) driving the speakers.
I don't need another pair of speakers currently, but if that changes for what ever reason in the future for sure the T2's or their successors will be on my short list.
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Post by pedrocols on Apr 24, 2019 12:17:01 GMT -5
To each his own. Speakers are very much about personal preference, ones uses, and how much your budget will allow. There is no doubt in my mind what so ever that any Wilson speaker made sounds better than the T2. Note that I have never heard the T2 and I've only heard the lesser model Wilsons, but from what I have heard of Wilson's (the best sound I've ever heard - better than $90,000 per pair Focal's and McIntosh), I stand by my statement. The question is the "worth." Wilson's cost a lot for what you get, for sure. They are WAY out of my budget. They are like Ferrari's and Lamborghini's, all the way up to Bugatti's. My Nissan 370Z looks quite nice, performs pretty well, and was even described as the best sports car on the planet for the money by both Car & Driver and Top Gear back in 2009. But ya know, if I could afford it, I'd rather have a Lamborghini Huracan. So it's all relative. To say Wilson's are for the deluded is just rude and wrong. I agree with bonzo....... I have heard the Wilson's speakers going all the way back to the Mid 80's when he premiered his WAMM speakers (at the CES in Chicago) which consisted of ready made available off the shelf drivers from a variety of speaker manufactures. John curl designed the xovers. at that time his sound was considered the best of the show except for Arnold Nudel's RS-1 series. Both were completely out of reach for most all audio consumers. But.... they did represent the best of the art and Both designers had impeccable ears when it came to voicing their respective products. it is at the Axpona conference where I have had a chance to revisit Wilson's speakers and they are still a great product for only a few lucky souls who have 6 to 7 figures to plunck down on a hobby. I also have heard the T-2's in the best possible environment (my living room) and No... they are not of the caliber of the Wilson's, but at a 1/100th of the price who would expect them to be. the T-2's are quite impressive and almost invisible with good recording material and one of the best bargains out there. on the other hand...... for Wilson's top stuff I would need a living room 6 times its present size, no wife and for my 4 adult children to pay me back for all the tuition I spent on the 4 private colleges they went to. tchaik........ No wife and no children looks like a pretty good idea to me.😂 |
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Post by tchaik on Apr 24, 2019 13:29:31 GMT -5
I agree with bonzo....... I have heard the Wilson's speakers going all the way back to the Mid 80's when he premiered his WAMM speakers (at the CES in Chicago) which consisted of ready made available off the shelf drivers from a variety of speaker manufactures. John curl designed the xovers. at that time his sound was considered the best of the show except for Arnold Nudel's RS-1 series. Both were completely out of reach for most all audio consumers. But.... they did represent the best of the art and Both designers had impeccable ears when it came to voicing their respective products. it is at the Axpona conference where I have had a chance to revisit Wilson's speakers and they are still a great product for only a few lucky souls who have 6 to 7 figures to plunck down on a hobby. I also have heard the T-2's in the best possible environment (my living room) and No... they are not of the caliber of the Wilson's, but at a 1/100th of the price who would expect them to be. the T-2's are quite impressive and almost invisible with good recording material and one of the best bargains out there. on the other hand...... for Wilson's top stuff I would need a living room 6 times its present size, no wife and for my 4 adult children to pay me back for all the tuition I spent on the 4 private colleges they went to. tchaik........ No wife and no children looks like a pretty good idea to me.😂 unfortunately, my audio system won't take care of me in my old age. tchaik............... |
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Post by pedrocols on Apr 24, 2019 13:36:27 GMT -5
No wife and no children looks like a pretty good idea to me.😂 unfortunately, my audio system won't take care of me in my old age. tchaik............... Good point I think I am screwed then.🤔 |
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Post by Gary Cook on Apr 24, 2019 14:36:19 GMT -5
The big problem I have always had with high end audio gear is the price relativity. For example the Wilson ALEXX are $109k a pair and the T2’s are $1k a pair. Are the Wilsons really 109 times better? Or more appropriately are the T2’s only 1/109 times as good? It’s not real is it, well not to my ears anyway. If we do the comparison to cars, I have absolutely no problem telling the differences between road cars costing even as little as three times as much, for example a Golf GTI (hardly a bad or slow car) and a BMW M3. In a double blind test I doubt that there would be a single person in the world who couldn’t pick the difference. When I get to 10 times as much, say a Ferrari 812 Superfast, the comparison is still very easy, absolutely no doubt which we are driving. To get to 100 times the Golf GTI cost we are way out of road car territory and into serious race cars, for example an Indy Car and I don’t think we would need golden ears to pick that difference.
In the test arena (Dyno, 1/4 mile, race track, etc) the differences in cars are demonstrable. Sure the M3 may not be 3 times as “fast” or powerful, but it’s close to twice. As with most things the law of diminishing returns applies to cars, but it pales into insignificance when compared to high end audio. There the law of diminishing returns to me is way beyond comprehension. There is simply no way I could justify a 109 times price multiplier, even 10 times isn’t remotely close to the VW versus Ferrari comparison.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by Jean Genie on Apr 24, 2019 15:12:16 GMT -5
"... for example a Golf GTI (hardly a bad or slow car) and a BMW M3. In a double blind test I doubt that there would be a single person in the world who couldn’t pick the difference..."
Can you take video of that double blind test so we can show it to your next of kin?😢😩😉😂
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Post by tchaik on Apr 24, 2019 21:08:32 GMT -5
"... for example a Golf GTI (hardly a bad or slow car) and a BMW M3. In a double blind test I doubt that there would be a single person in the world who couldn’t pick the difference..." Can you take video of that double blind test so we can show it to your next of kin?😢😩😉😂 could you tell the difference if you got run over by one or the other? |
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Post by 405x5 on Apr 25, 2019 7:28:40 GMT -5
No wife and no children looks like a pretty good idea to me.😂 unfortunately, my audio system won't take care of me in my old age. tchaik............... One day my daughter gets all my stuff.... I hope her place is big enough! Bill |
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bootman
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Typing useless posts on internet forums....
Posts: 9,358
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Post by bootman on Apr 25, 2019 7:55:58 GMT -5
It really comes down to if you like the extreme detail a folded ribbon tweeter can provide. For some it tends to expose the flaws upstream and they don't really like that.  For others a more "colored" sound is preferred and there isn't anything wrong with that either since it comes down to personal preference. |
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Post by tchaik on Apr 25, 2019 9:04:35 GMT -5
unfortunately, my audio system won't take care of me in my old age. tchaik............... One day my daughter gets all my stuff.... I hope her place is big enough! Bill since all my kids have great systems because I make sure of it, they don't want anymore stuff. so it will all go to my buddy chip. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Apr 25, 2019 13:43:23 GMT -5
One can chase perfection to the ends of the budget, but owner satisfaction isn't any more likely in the stratospheric price ranges than it is in the more modest ones. Yes, there is a strong positive correlation between price and design excellence, including fit and finish. But beyond a point, prices increase exponentially for ever-diminishing improvements in true sound quality.
At one time, the flaws of a $1,000 pair of speakers were EASY to hear, and once heard, DIFFICULT to ignore. But with the advent of CAD-CAM design, computer optimization of drivers, and some consensus on design goals, speakers have become the camera lenses of the decade. At one time, to get a premium camera lens, you bought Leica or Hasselblad. If you couldn't afford those, you got a distinctly second class Nikor, or a third-class anything else. But with the advent of computer assisted lens designs, the break came where one could buy a Vivitar, Soligor, Tamron, etc. with better specs than the Leica had once had (and for a fraction of the price).
Now that same great consumer benefit has come to loudspeakers. One can buy a pair of speakers at 1/10 the price that an equivalent pair would have cost not that long ago. The cheap speakers may not have the fit and finish of the carriage-trade ones, and they may not play as loudly, regardless of how much wattage your pour to them, but within their design limits, they meet or exceed the performance of what were previously "the best."
So despite the arguments to the contrary, I contend that NOW (not the 1970s) is "the golden age of loudspeakers." Never could one buy such high performance speakers for so little money. And never could one have the variety that's currently available either.
Enjoy!
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Post by rbk123 on Apr 25, 2019 21:03:39 GMT -5
Have to agree with Boom.
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