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Post by Gary Cook on Jun 21, 2019 16:21:22 GMT -5
Not surprisingly the XMC-2 has more votes than all of the others combined. Itโs at a price point, especially for XMC-1 convertees, that suites itโs likely life span. The XMC-1 did pretty well lasting as long as it did, although we should have had DTS-X capability 2 to 3 years ago, but I put that down to just bad luck in its release timing. I see no evidence to suggest that this generation will last longer to justify spending more, a lot more, for what will be very marginal real world sound quality gains. The fact is HDMI standards are not going to stand still and 4K is already yesterdayโs video standard. The XMC-1 was upgradable as promised but it reached a point where it might have been technically possible to be upgraded, but it simply wasnโt economically viable, for Emotiva or us. I see no reason why the RMC-1, RMC-1L and the XMC-2 wonโt reach the same impass. So for me, like all processors, the XMC-2 is the sweet spot in the cost versus economic life equation.
Cheers
Gary
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Post by thrillcat on Jun 21, 2019 18:05:27 GMT -5
The fact is HDMI standards are not going to stand still and 4K is already yesterdayโs video standard. Cheers Gary 4K is hardly yesterdayโs video standard. I think the industry is going to get a rude awakening when they try to push 8K on the public with minimal 4K content available, and almost no 8K. Plus, Dan has already said theyโre researching an 8K upgrade for the RMC-1, which would in all likelihood be universal down to the XMC-2. |
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Post by davidl81 on Jun 21, 2019 18:15:35 GMT -5
The fact is HDMI standards are not going to stand still and 4K is already yesterdayโs video standard. Cheers Gary 4K is hardly yesterdayโs video standard. I think the industry is going to get a rude awakening when they try to push 8K on the public with minimal 4K content available, and almost no 8K. Plus, Dan has already said theyโre researching an 8K upgrade for the RMC-1, which would in all likelihood be universal down to the XMC-2. I just hate the thought of 8k. There is zero need for that in the market with MAYBE the exception of the ultra high end theater room with 150โ+ screens. Especially now as we move to a streaming world where 8k video would take up appx four times the data of 4K. All the time with data caps becoming the norm and not going up. I know why they do it, to push new TVs, but itโs just crap that is not needed. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 21, 2019 19:30:29 GMT -5
Well, we have some dates! Per the latest podcast the XMC-2 is slated to release โin late Julyโ, and the RMC-1L โthe following monthโ.
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Post by Gary Cook on Jun 21, 2019 19:57:49 GMT -5
The fact is HDMI standards are not going to stand still and 4K is already yesterdayโs video standard 4K is hardly yesterdayโs video standard. I think the industry is going to get a rude awakening when they try to push 8K on the public with minimal 4K content available, and almost no 8K. They won't push it, they'll do the same as they did with 4K when they simply stopped making HD TV's. Then con the plebs into wanting an 8K to do upscaling until there is content available. If I walk into any store selling TV's today it's next to impossible to find anything other than 4K in any real TV (not monitor) sizes. The same will simply happen with 8K, we won't be able to buy 4K at some point in time. Not picking on Dan but he said the same with the XMC-1 DTS-X upgrade. Of course he did the right thing and honoured his promise for the XMC-1 owners to upgrade to the XMC-2 for the same price as the upgraded board would have cost. But that doesn't alter the fact that whilst it was technically possible it just didn't make sense economically. This is of course far from unique, plenty of manufacturers have promised upgrade paths, then found out that it was either not possible or not feasible. Cheers Gary |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 21, 2019 20:33:31 GMT -5
4K is hardly yesterdayโs video standard. I think the industry is going to get a rude awakening when they try to push 8K on the public with minimal 4K content available, and almost no 8K. Plus, Dan has already said theyโre researching an 8K upgrade for the RMC-1, which would in all likelihood be universal down to the XMC-2. I just hate the thought of 8k. There is zero need for that in the market with MAYBE the exception of the ultra high end theater room with 150โ+ screens. Especially now as we move to a streaming world where 8k video would take up appx four times the data of 4K. All the time with data caps becoming the norm and not going up. I know why they do it, to push new TVs, but itโs just crap that is not needed. I agree, Iโm very happy with my 4K, and I canโt even stream it, so no way (even if it ever comes to pass) Iโll ever be able to stream 8K. Like you say, you have to have a huge screen to even be able to see the difference. Now, I might have one exception at the opposite extreme. I recently started using a 43โ 4K TV as a computer monitor, I sit roughly arms length away. The size is great, and I can layout my work and move from window to window without maximizing and minimizing, even run my drawing software full screen and have it a keystroke away. But if I get into photo editing, I can see the grain / pixels, if there were something available in this size with higher resolution, at a reasonable price, Iโd consider it. But for my theatre, no thanks. |
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Jun 21, 2019 20:40:35 GMT -5
The fact is HDMI standards are not going to stand still and 4K is already yesterdayโs video standard. Cheers Gary 4K is hardly yesterdayโs video standard. I think the industry is going to get a rude awakening when they try to push 8K on the public with minimal 4K content available, and almost no 8K. Plus, Dan has already said theyโre researching an 8K upgrade for the RMC-1, which would in all likelihood be universal down to the XMC-2. While I agree with you, Gary is right, at some point the manufacturers will push 8K flat panels on us and phase out 4K. I do however believe many consumers will drag their feet even more so than they are now from 1080p to 4K. I say that because there is still a preponderance of source material of HD/1080p for streaming and the majority of cable TV broadcasts are still in 720p. So to ask consumers to move to 8K while the main stream video world still resides in HD is absolutely absurd. I've tried playing the few DVD's I have left on my LG 4K OLED and to me they're just plain unwatchable, will the blu-ray that looks quite good on my 4K LG look like crap on 8K?....probably, so IMO until companies like Comcast/AT&T/Verizon make the concerted effort to move to 4K and HLG, and it should be possible since DirectTV now have been broadcasting limited content in 4K and HLG, the video world will continue to be years behind the audio world. I just don't see HDMI 2.1 being put to its full potential for years to come yet, not to mention there are no plans for 8K media. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Jun 21, 2019 21:55:07 GMT -5
4K is hardly yesterdayโs video standard. I think the industry is going to get a rude awakening when they try to push 8K on the public with minimal 4K content available, and almost no 8K. Plus, Dan has already said theyโre researching an 8K upgrade for the RMC-1, which would in all likelihood be universal down to the XMC-2. While I agree with you, Gary is right, at some point the manufacturers will push 8K flat panels on us and phase out 4K. I do however believe many consumers will drag their feet even more so than they are now from 1080p to 4K. I say that because there is still a preponderance of source material of HD/1080p for streaming and the majority of cable TV broadcasts are still in 720p. So to ask consumers to move to 8K while the main stream video world still resides in HD is absolutely absurd. I've tried playing the few DVD's I have left on my LG 4K OLED and to me they're just plain unwatchable, will the blu-ray that looks quite good on my 4K LG look like crap on 8K?....probably, so IMO until companies like Comcast/AT&T/Verizon make the concerted effort to move to 4K and HLG, and it should be possible since DirectTV now have been broadcasting limited content in 4K and HLG, the video world will continue to be years behind the audio world. I just don't see HDMI 2.1 being put to its full potential for years to come yet, not to mention there are no plans for 8K media. 4k is still in its infancy. There is more content now, but it has not hit its potential. Donโt forget that there is also a new OTA standard for broadcasting 4K and it works. ATSC 3.0. Over the air 4k with Dolby Atmos sound. The problem is convincing the stations to spend the money on new hardware and the content providers would need to step up.They need a financial incentive. I would have thought by now that Directv would have many more channels. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Jun 21, 2019 22:23:34 GMT -5
While I agree with you, Gary is right, at some point the manufacturers will push 8K flat panels on us and phase out 4K. I do however believe many consumers will drag their feet even more so than they are now from 1080p to 4K. I say that because there is still a preponderance of source material of HD/1080p for streaming and the majority of cable TV broadcasts are still in 720p. So to ask consumers to move to 8K while the main stream video world still resides in HD is absolutely absurd. I've tried playing the few DVD's I have left on my LG 4K OLED and to me they're just plain unwatchable, will the blu-ray that looks quite good on my 4K LG look like crap on 8K?....probably, so IMO until companies like Comcast/AT&T/Verizon make the concerted effort to move to 4K and HLG, and it should be possible since DirectTV now have been broadcasting limited content in 4K and HLG, the video world will continue to be years behind the audio world. I just don't see HDMI 2.1 being put to its full potential for years to come yet, not to mention there are no plans for 8K media. 4k is still in its infancy. There is more content now, but it has not hit its potential. Donโt forget that there is also a new OTA standard for broadcasting 4K and it works. ATSC 3.0. Over the air 4k with Dolby Atmos sound. The problem is convincing the stations to spend the money on new hardware and the content providers would need to step up.They need a financial incentive. I would have thought by now that Directv would have many more channels. People like us (crazy audio/video enthusiasts) know this, but the pleb (non enthusiast) friends of mine upscale their 720/1080P sources to 4K on their new 70" LG OLED and think that they are watching 4K. So when 8K TV arrives, at their prices, they will just upscale with them too. As much as I try to explain the difference between a 4K source and upscaling they really don't care, they have the latest and greatest and when it finally is broadcast in 4K they will be ready. That's the mass market, who the manufacturers target, for example one of our larger retailers already has signs up saying "8K READY TV's AVAILABLE NOW". Cheers Gary |
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Post by butchgo on Jun 22, 2019 8:16:26 GMT -5
Can the human eye even see that kind of definition?  |
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Post by davidl81 on Jun 22, 2019 10:23:42 GMT -5
Can the human eye even see that kind of definition? Itโs all about screen size and distance. But for 95% of people the eye canโt tell the difference between 1080p and 4K, much less 4K and 8k. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 22, 2019 12:24:30 GMT -5
Can the human eye even see that kind of definition? Itโs all about screen size and distance. But for 95% of people the eye canโt tell the difference between 1080p and 4K, much less 4K and 8k. Right, size and distance, with my 85โ 4K Iโm back further than is optimal, but can still see the difference in 4K material. Hereโs one of the many size / distance / resolution calculators. I plugged in my 43โ 8K desktop monitor scenario and it looks about right, but I expect something that size will be slow to arrive (and may require another new computer too). Resolution / Distance / Size Calculator As for the topic at hand, I think Emotiva has to start/continue working on HDMI 2.1 and 8K because the RMC is posed as a top of the line processor, some buyers will have 8K displays (whether they need them or not) and want them to work. The V3 board showed us itโs not always as trivial as expected and the sooner itโs available, the more time theyโll have to test. I wonder if theyโll still try to deliver eARC with the current board? Iโve seen other 2.0b units adding eARC with firmware. |
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Post by wizardofoz on Jun 22, 2019 21:18:09 GMT -5
With the rmc-1 at $3k using my 40% off card and the same if I trade in I will be using the 40% card to go the RMC-1 route. But that is a long shot at this stage.
That said I really only need the XMC-2 so my trade in will be on that...and my other XMC-1 will either remain as is or perhaps Iโll upgrade it later when things are absolutely stable.
I have a trip to the USA coming up in 3-4 weeks so will schlep one of my XMC-1โs with me and locally send it to Emotiva hq avoiding the international shipping...the return trip will depend on the units availability while Iโm still in the USA till end of July. Emotiva track record on availability is not stellar so it remains to be seen if they will be shipping it to me in LA or back to Singapore where I will get whacked with import taxes
I hit the XMC-2 box FYI
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Post by cwt on Jun 23, 2019 5:39:46 GMT -5
I just hate the thought of 8k. There is zero need for that in the market with MAYBE the exception of the ultra high end theater room with 150โ+ screens. Especially now as we move to a streaming world where 8k video would take up appx four times the data of 4K. All the time with data caps becoming the norm and not going up. I know why they do it, to push new TVs, but itโs just crap that is not needed. Yes ; were lucky enough to know[ unlike joe public] that resolution isn't as important as WCG and HDR for a good picture . And we have that with HDMI2.0b  For all those without a modular upgradeability its potentially a new hdmi2.1 avr as well . I wonder what will happen if 2.1 isn't so compatible with 2.0 [ like we have necessary switching 1.4 and 2.0/hdcp2.2 on the RMC1 now ..] Maybe the trick here is to tell everyone to take their best dvd into the retail store and see how well the 8k tv scales to 33 million odd pixels  Craptacular indeed  |
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richb
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Post by richb on Jun 26, 2019 9:25:55 GMT -5
I just hate the thought of 8k. There is zero need for that in the market with MAYBE the exception of the ultra high end theater room with 150โ+ screens. Especially now as we move to a streaming world where 8k video would take up appx four times the data of 4K. All the time with data caps becoming the norm and not going up. I know why they do it, to push new TVs, but itโs just crap that is not needed. Yes ; were lucky enough to know[ unlike joe public] that resolution isn't as important as WCG and HDR for a good picture . And we have that with HDMI2.0b For all those without a modular upgradeability its potentially a new hdmi2.1 avr as well . I wonder what will happen if 2.1 isn't so compatible with 2.0 [ like we have necessary switching 1.4 and 2.0/hdcp2.2 on the RMC1 now ..] Maybe the trick here is to tell everyone to take their best dvd into the retail store and see how well the 8k tv scales to 33 million odd pixels Craptacular indeed The LG C9 is HDMI 2.1 and, currently, there are no HDMI 2.1 devices to test it with. The XMC-1 V3 board works MUCH better with this display than it did with the C7. When switching there is two seconds of no signal and about 2 seconds to lock. So, it may be that HDMI 2.1 devices work better HDMI 2.0b devices. - Rich |
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Post by doc1963 on Jun 26, 2019 10:50:31 GMT -5
The LG C6 is HDMI 2.1 and, currently, there are no HDMI 2.1 devices to test it with. The XMC-1 V3 board works MUCH better with this display than it did with the C7. When switching there is two seconds of no signal and about 2 seconds to lock. So, it may be that HDMI 2.1 devices work better HDMI 2.0b devices. - Rich I'm sure you meant LG's "C9"... |
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Post by richb on Jun 26, 2019 11:13:49 GMT -5
The LG C6 is HDMI 2.1 and, currently, there are no HDMI 2.1 devices to test it with. The XMC-1 V3 board works MUCH better with this display than it did with the C7. When switching there is two seconds of no signal and about 2 seconds to lock. So, it may be that HDMI 2.1 devices work better HDMI 2.0b devices. - Rich I'm sure you meant LG's "C9"... Yes, post corrected. Perhaps the industry is moving the right direction. There is a lot more to HDMI 2.1 than 8K so HDMI 2.1 is a must. It may be an opportunity to release a new board that need not be backward compatible to the XMC-1 or that provides a superset, permitting better operation in the new generation of processors. - Rich |
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Post by cwt on Jun 26, 2019 13:27:46 GMT -5
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Post by richb on Jun 26, 2019 13:42:27 GMT -5
Reaching new levels of absurdity. HDFury gets to offer a whole new line of products. - Rich |
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Post by KeithL on Jun 26, 2019 14:24:13 GMT -5
I would like to add one thing to your first comment. Yes, it's true that, if you walk into a store today, you'll have difficulty finding an HD TV. However, the new 4k TVs continue to get cheaper, and they'll still play all of your HD content, and provide an excellent picture.
(I looked on Amazon... you have a choice of 4k 43" and 50" TVs for under $300, and several under $250, which is less than I paid for my 43" HD model not that long ago.)
So you're not really paying more for the 4k TV - and you don't have to purchase any 4k content or other equipment if you really have no interest in doing so.
(Sure, by getting a 4k TV in your living room, they're making it easier for you to be tempted.... but it's still your choice.) I agree that 8k came too close on the heels of 4k.
Many people are not going to be willing to get rid of their new 4k TV to get next year's 8k model.
However, when that one breaks in a few years, I don't see it as a problem that they'll "get stuck with an 8k model because that's all that's on the shelf"... As long as overall prices continue to drop - or even remain the same - and it will still play all the stuff I have now. Look on the bright side... The day 8k models become commonplace... All the 4k models go on sale...
[[
LATE ADDITION......
Here's a 50" HD TV - for $209.00 - so they're not All gone yet. 
]]
4K is hardly yesterdayโs video standard. I think the industry is going to get a rude awakening when they try to push 8K on the public with minimal 4K content available, and almost no 8K. They won't push it, they'll do the same as they did with 4K when they simply stopped making HD TV's. Then con the plebs into wanting an 8K to do upscaling until there is content available. If I walk into any store selling TV's today it's next to impossible to find anything other than 4K in any real TV (not monitor) sizes. The same will simply happen with 8K, we won't be able to buy 4K at some point in time. Not picking on Dan but he said the same with the XMC-1 DTS-X upgrade. Of course he did the right thing and honoured his promise for the XMC-1 owners to upgrade to the XMC-2 for the same price as the upgraded board would have cost. But that doesn't alter the fact that whilst it was technically possible it just didn't make sense economically. This is of course far from unique, plenty of manufacturers have promised upgrade paths, then found out that it was either not possible or not feasible. Cheers Gary |
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Craptacular indeed 
