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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2019 0:25:24 GMT -5
Hello, I own an Emotiva Gen 3 5 Channel. I am purchasing the Tekton Ulfberhts this week. My question is what is the output of the Emotiva Amp all 5 channels driven? Here's the thing, the front sound stage which includes Ulfberhts and Tekton Double Impact Center Wide will be 4 ohms. And the Atmos pair of speakers will be 8 ohms.
I'm considering purchasing a second amp just to run my front sound stage: the Ulfberhts and Double Impact Center at 4 ohms.
In summation, what is the 4 ohm rating of a mixed ohm amp? And would you definitely suggest a second amp to power the front sound stage? If so would you recommend I purchase a two channel or three channel amp to power the front sound stage? That is, using a 3 channel to power the entire front sound stage or using a 2 channel to power the Ulfberhts and the 5 channel to power the center and atmos?
Besides listening to music this will be in a theater system.
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Post by davidl81 on Jul 15, 2019 8:51:24 GMT -5
Hello, I own an Emotiva Gen 3 5 Channel. I am purchasing the Tekton Ulfberhts this week. My question is what is the output of the Emotiva Amp all 5 channels driven? Here's the thing, the front sound stage which includes Ulfberhts and Tekton Double Impact Center Wide will be 4 ohms. And the Atmos pair of speakers will be 8 ohms.
I'm considering purchasing a second amp just to run my front sound stage: the Ulfberhts and Double Impact Center at 4 ohms.
In summation, what is the 4 ohm rating of a mixed ohm amp? And would you definitely suggest a second amp to power the front sound stage? If so would you recommend I purchase a two channel or three channel amp to power the front sound stage? That is, using a 3 channel to power the entire front sound stage or using a 2 channel to power the Ulfberhts and the 5 channel to power the center and atmos?
Besides listening to music this will be in a theater system.
So all channels in 8 ohm is 250 WPC, in 4 ohm you should get about 400 WPC. Now in a real world setting especially in home theater you will never have a situation where each channel is pushed to full output at the same time. Maybe one channel (center), but even then it would be pretty rare. As far as a second amp what is your full set up? Is it going to just be the front speakers (L/C/R) and then the two Atmos speakers? Are you running any surround speakers, and if so what is driving those? Your Tekton speakers are pretty awesome, and if you were to get a different amp I would look real hard at the DR-3 amp for that front stage. It will get you 600 WPC with all three channels driven. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2019 11:03:41 GMT -5
Hello, I own an Emotiva Gen 3 5 Channel. I am purchasing the Tekton Ulfberhts this week. My question is what is the output of the Emotiva Amp all 5 channels driven? Here's the thing, the front sound stage which includes Ulfberhts and Tekton Double Impact Center Wide will be 4 ohms. And the Atmos pair of speakers will be 8 ohms.
I'm considering purchasing a second amp just to run my front sound stage: the Ulfberhts and Double Impact Center at 4 ohms.
In summation, what is the 4 ohm rating of a mixed ohm amp? And would you definitely suggest a second amp to power the front sound stage? If so would you recommend I purchase a two channel or three channel amp to power the front sound stage? That is, using a 3 channel to power the entire front sound stage or using a 2 channel to power the Ulfberhts and the 5 channel to power the center and atmos?
Besides listening to music this will be in a theater system.
So all channels in 8 ohm is 250 WPC, in 4 ohm you should get about 400 WPC. Now in a real world setting especially in home theater you will never have a situation where each channel is pushed to full output at the same time. Maybe one channel (center), but even then it would be pretty rare. As far as a second amp what is your full set up? Is it going to just be the front speakers (L/C/R) and then the two Atmos speakers? Are you running any surround speakers, and if so what is driving those? Your Tekton speakers are pretty awesome, and if you were to get a different amp I would look real hard at the DR-3 amp for that front stage. It will get you 600 WPC with all three channels driven. Hello and thank you for not only responding but also your advice.
Full setup includes Onkyo PR-RZ5100 11 Channel Preamp, Emotiva Gen 3 5 Ch. amp, and soon to be Tekton Ulfberhts, Tekton Double Impact Center Wide, and 4 Klipsch Atmos. I also have 2 Klipsch Synergy 12inch active Subs, but don't know whether to use them with the Ulfberhts. I'll play with the active cross over points etc on the Onkyo once I receive all the components and set up the Living/Theater room.
I think your advice is pretty good. After I receive my Ulfberhts I'll order up a DR-3 amp to power up the front sound stage in 4 ohms L/C/R and use the 5 channel Gen 3 to power 4 Atmos height speakers. I'll have an extra channel left over but I don't know what to do with it.
Many thanks, William
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 15, 2019 11:18:52 GMT -5
... I think your advice is pretty good. After I receive my Ulfberhts I'll order up a DR-3 amp to power up the front sound stage in 4 ohms L/C/R and use the 5 channel Gen 3 to power 4 Atmos height speakers. I'll have an extra channel left over but I don't know what to do with it. Many thanks,William I think that's the key and a wise move, change one thing in your system at a time (if possible), then listen to the system with the new component and decide what it is that you might be able to improve on. It may be that a new amp wouldn't give you the biggest improvement, but rather a big puffy ottoman to absorb that lower midrange resonance (and to keep your feet and legs comfy thereby increasing your enjoyment). I say the last part with humor, but hopefully you take my point, try not to take too many steps ahead before you know where the next step will take you. |
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Post by davidl81 on Jul 15, 2019 11:24:55 GMT -5
... I think your advice is pretty good. After I receive my Ulfberhts I'll order up a DR-3 amp to power up the front sound stage in 4 ohms L/C/R and use the 5 channel Gen 3 to power 4 Atmos height speakers. I'll have an extra channel left over but I don't know what to do with it. Many thanks,William I think that's the key and a wise move, change one thing in your system at a time (if possible), then listen to the system with the new component and decide what it is that you might be able to improve on. It may be that a new amp wouldn't give you the biggest improvement, but rather a big puffy ottoman to absorb that lower midrange resonance (and to keep your feet and legs comfy thereby increasing your enjoyment). I say the last part with humor, but hopefully you take my point, try not to take too many steps ahead before you know where the next step will take you. Sounds like the OP needed a second amp regardless of SQ since he has seven speakers (L/C/R and four Atmos) and only a five channel amp. I think with the quality of the speakers he has the DR-3 will be an excellent pair. Also I would use the active subs if anything for movie use. For music you may prefer the sound of just the main speakers, but install the subs and play around with them. |
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Post by mountain on Jul 15, 2019 12:18:22 GMT -5
... I think your advice is pretty good. After I receive my Ulfberhts I'll order up a DR-3 amp to power up the front sound stage in 4 ohms L/C/R and use the 5 channel Gen 3 to power 4 Atmos height speakers. I'll have an extra channel left over but I don't know what to do with it. Many thanks,William I think that's the key and a wise move, change one thing in your system at a time (if possible), then listen to the system with the new component and decide what it is that you might be able to improve on. It may be that a new amp wouldn't give you the biggest improvement, but rather a big puffy ottoman to absorb that lower midrange resonance (and to keep your feet and legs comfy thereby increasing your enjoyment). I say the last part with humor, but hopefully you take my point, try not to take too many steps ahead before you know where the next step will take you. Killer system that one. Enjoy! |
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Post by badsarge on Jul 15, 2019 14:52:38 GMT -5
Shimei,
Would love to hear your thoughts concerning the Ulfberhts after a suitable break in period.
I've enjoyed the Double Impacts for several years now, driven by a Gen 1 XPA-5 to considerable levels!
The DIs are beasts at 54" inches but the Ulfberhts at 77" will be absolute behemoths!!
Hope you've got a huge room to let them really breathe!
Congrats on the pending system. Sounds quite enticing!
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 15, 2019 17:18:51 GMT -5
I think that's the key and a wise move, change one thing in your system at a time (if possible), then listen to the system with the new component and decide what it is that you might be able to improve on. It may be that a new amp wouldn't give you the biggest improvement, but rather a big puffy ottoman to absorb that lower midrange resonance (and to keep your feet and legs comfy thereby increasing your enjoyment). I say the last part with humor, but hopefully you take my point, try not to take too many steps ahead before you know where the next step will take you. Sounds like the OP needed a second amp regardless of SQ since he has seven speakers (L/C/R and four Atmos) and only a five channel amp. I think with the quality of the speakers he has the DR-3 will be an excellent pair. Also I would use the active subs if anything for movie use. For music you may prefer the sound of just the main speakers, but install the subs and play around with them. OK, so we could just go with, for a speaker that good (and expensive) just buy the best possible amp, but will the Onkyo have differential channels to take full advantage of the DR's? I could only find reference to "balanced outputs" which doesn't mean fully balanced or differential, though the L/R DACs looked balanced so maybe the whole L/R path is. The speakers have 99 dB sensitivity, even with the XPA-5 that will give 120 dB+ SPL, hard to argue they need more power (though I see they're rated to handle 1000W ... which would put you at 130 dB+  ). Maybe he should bi-amp the L/R with the XPA-5 and run the center with the 5th channel, then buy another amp for ceilings? I'm not disagreeing with you, a DR-3 would likely be the best choice, I'm just saying to listen to the new speakers in the space and then decide what to do next. Coming here for ideas is ... a great idea, I'd just hold off on an amp decision until you have the speakers. I do agree that with those speakers you may not need subs for music, and could really take advantage of a pure, reference type, signal path ... I also agree that those speakers look awesome, and given Tekton's reputation, probably are. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 15:10:52 GMT -5
Shimei, Would love to hear your thoughts concerning the Ulfberhts after a suitable break in period. I've enjoyed the Double Impacts for several years now, driven by a Gen 1 XPA-5 to considerable levels! The DIs are beasts at 54" inches but the Ulfberhts at 77" will be absolute behemoths!! Hope you've got a huge room to let them really breathe! Congrats on the pending system. Sounds quite enticing! As well as I your review! Spoke to Eric of Tekton today for the second time. He talked me out of the Double Impact Center Channel Wide for a Ulfberht center channel. The center channel will use larger tweeters in a 5 speaker array vs the 7 speaker array of smaller tweeters in the D.I.s.
I really enjoyed talking to this man. I think I'll do a review of the Ulfberhts in the future. I'll post them on my site www.christforums.com/ as well as here as I have a computer and technology section in the forums.
I am a former professional car audio installer. So a lot of the things Eric says makes sense to me about the myth of room overloading etc. In car audio there is limited space. Yes wave length makes a difference etc but various enclosure designs etc and speaker direction to optimize distance and reflection are known to those that install in cramped spaces. Not to mention the technological wonder of digital equalization and time delays (digital sound processing). Anyhoot, I won't be facing many of these issues because the living/entertainment room is part of an open floor planned house. The room is in excess of 20x20 ft with cathedral ceilings.
I'm hearing flak already about the flooring option. I chose wood and would of chose stone tile for the natural reverb. Some say this is going to create a harmonic disaster. But I prefer this kinda sound. I play the guitar and think it funny that I use a Fender tube amp which has dual reverb to achieve what can be done naturally.
Anyways, I'll post a review here one day and also on my website with pictures etc. I'm even thinking about an RTA to provide objective curves etc. Don't know how that'll appeal to someone though because many a cars I set up with a RTA to flatten a curve for competition ended up sounding like crap but place well according to "objective data".
Looking forward and thanks for your response badsarge.
Enjoy, William
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Post by badsarge on Jul 16, 2019 17:01:36 GMT -5
Shimei, I enjoyed several conversations with Eric prior to taking delivery of the DIs. Very entertaining gentleman that was most gracious with his time. Must not sleep much. I'm very happy to see him succeed. My room is about 14x20. Open to another larger living space. I would suggest building a mock up of the Ulfberht to appreciate it's size. As far as flooring and room interaction, the wife recently opted to replace the sofa. Sold the old one in two hours. Tossed the rug. The hardwood floors are a tad bright to my ear without the furnishings. To each his own. Once you have everything installed, you can always tweak. Boomzilla had some outriggers from Soundocity on a pair of Pendragons he reviewed last year. I was tempted to discern what impact they might have on my Impacts  Steve |
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Post by garbulky on Jul 16, 2019 17:56:37 GMT -5
I have heard the XPA gen 3 (2 channel). Since you are getting one of the best Tektons, I would strongly reccomend a used XPA-1 gen 2 pair of monoblocks instead to drive them - which I've also used extensively. In my opinion the sound quality is more natural sounding in tone. It's not that the XPA gen 3 sounds bad. It's got really nice tight bass but it drops the ball compared to other amps on the treble. Both me and a friend in direct comprisons thought that even the Emotiva A-300 did better in the treble sounding more natural and open.
I feel the XPA-1 gen 2 simply does better than either of those amps.
You'll still get really nice sound with your XPA gen 3 though.
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Post by teaman on Jul 16, 2019 18:13:29 GMT -5
I would suggest XPA-1's on the used market, or XPA-2's used that you run bridged to your Tektons. My buddy just purchased the Tekton Polycell 15's and runs four bridged XPA-2 with 1000 watts per channel into them and they love it. He owned the DR amps and sold them, they could not hang.
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Post by davidl81 on Jul 16, 2019 18:38:44 GMT -5
I would suggest XPA-1's on the used market, or XPA-2's used that you run bridged to your Tektons. My buddy just purchased the Tekton Polycell 15's and runs four bridged XPA-2 with 1000 watts per channel into them and they love it. He owned the DR amps and sold them, they could not hang. He can’t run 4 ohm speakers bridged on the XPA-2, they have to be 8 ohm. The XPA-1s are great amps as well, it just depends on if he wants two extra amps, or just one. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 16, 2019 18:40:03 GMT -5
I would suggest XPA-1's on the used market, or XPA-2's used that you run bridged to your Tektons. My buddy just purchased the Tekton Polycell 15's and runs four bridged XPA-2 with 1000 watts per channel into them and they love it. He owned the DR amps and sold them, they could not hang. I wouldn't be comfortable with a rated 4 ohm load and a bridged amp. |
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Post by teaman on Jul 16, 2019 19:56:41 GMT -5
Sorry, just found out my buddy's Tektons are 8 ohm.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 22:50:27 GMT -5
I'm not really considering this but if the Ulfberhts are bi-amp ready then wouldn't each speaker connection be 8 ohms? 8 Ohms paralleled wired would equal the one 4 ohm rating of the Ulfberhts. If the Tektons are bi-amp ready, running two 8 ohms in series would equal 16 ohm load and the mono blocked amps bridged or otherwise would probably make half the output. The only option would be to bi-amp and run a mono block or bridged amp on each speaker channel which would be the correct 8 ohm rating. That means I'd need 4 bridged (8 channels) or 4 mono block amps which would all be running at 8 ohms each. Are Emotiva Gen 3 amps bridgeable? If so I'd only need to order one more 8 channel amp. Then in total 13 channels with 8 bridged together to power up the Ulfberhts, 1 channel for the center, and 4 channels for the Atmos. If the Emotiva amps are bridgeable then puzzle solved.
(I doubt the Ulberhts if bi amp ready are 2 ohm running in series to produce the 4 ohm rating.)
Shame home audio isn't like car audio where pro level amps are stable at 1 or 2 ohms.
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Post by garbulky on Jul 16, 2019 23:28:50 GMT -5
I'm not really considering this but if the Ulfberhts are bi-amp ready then wouldn't each speaker connection be 8 ohms? 8 Ohms paralleled wired would equal the one 4 ohm rating of the Ulfberhts. If the Tektons are bi-amp ready, running two 8 ohms in series would equal 16 ohm load and the mono blocked amps bridged or otherwise would probably make half the output. The only option would be to bi-amp and run a mono block or bridged amp on each speaker channel which would be the correct 8 ohm rating. That means I'd need 4 bridged or mono block amps which would all be running at 8 ohms each.
I doubt the Ulberhts if bi amp ready are 2 ohm running in series to produce the 4 ohm rating.
Shame home audio isn't like car audio where pro level amps are stable at 1 or 2 ohms.
The XPA-1 gen 2 is (unofficially) stable at 2 ohms - but not below it. It produces 1700 something watts at that rating - though likely at increased distortion. The reason Lonnie the designer gave to not listing that as a feature was because somebody would then connect it to something that dips below 2 ohm and complain that the amp went in to protection. Interestingly since the XPA-1 gen 2 is a fully differential amp it sees a 4 ohm load as 2 ohms. So for it to be stable with a 2 ohm speaker load, it would be pushing output at 1 ohm. So it is pretty impressive.  The Emotiva XPR-1 (which was an older amp) was so powerful that it produced over 2000 watts per channel at 4 ohms at 0.1 % THD. It had so much beef that both Emotiva and Audioholics were not able to actually measure its maximum power due to the need for large resistors in the measuring equipment and also they were unable to keep the voltage from sagging from the house power. At 1% distortion in a 4 ohm load it produced 2200 watts. I couldn't even begin to imagine what kind of power it could push at 2 ohms. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 16, 2019 23:30:58 GMT -5
Sorry, just found out my buddy's Tektons are 8 ohm. I'm not really considering this but if the Ulfberhts are bi-amp ready then wouldn't each speaker connection be 8 ohms? 8 Ohms paralleled wired would equal the one 4 ohm rating of the Ulfberhts. I can't see how to wire them to achieve 8 ohms other than running two 8 ohms in series but that'd be a 16 ohm load and the mono blocked amps bridged or otherwise would probably make half the output. The only option would be to bi-amp and run a mono block on each speaker channel which would be the correct 8 ohm rating. That means I'd need 4 bridged or mono block amps which would all be running at 8 ohms each.
I doubt the Ulberhts if bi amp ready are 2 ohm running in series to produce the 4 ohm rating.
Shame home audio isn't like car audio where pro level amps are stable at 1 or 2 ohms.
I looked for a picture of the Ulfberhts’ rear and the one below was the best I could find. It does look like you can bi-amp, and that possibly there’s a resistor you can add/remove to adjust the high end (the Magnepans have that too). First, with passive bi-amping, the high end and low end should present about the same impedance as when driven by a single amp, so no need for series / parallel math there. The example I mentioned above using two channels of the XPA-5 to bi-amp would give about the same power with each channel, just two of them would go to the same speaker. You could also use 4 mono blocks, or 2 stereo amps (one one each side). Lots of options. Plenty of amps can drive a two ohm load, though they don’t always advertise it.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2019 23:32:25 GMT -5
I'm not really considering this but if the Ulfberhts are bi-amp ready then wouldn't each speaker connection be 8 ohms? 8 Ohms paralleled wired would equal the one 4 ohm rating of the Ulfberhts. If the Tektons are bi-amp ready, running two 8 ohms in series would equal 16 ohm load and the mono blocked amps bridged or otherwise would probably make half the output. The only option would be to bi-amp and run a mono block or bridged amp on each speaker channel which would be the correct 8 ohm rating. That means I'd need 4 bridged or mono block amps which would all be running at 8 ohms each.
I doubt the Ulberhts if bi amp ready are 2 ohm running in series to produce the 4 ohm rating.
Shame home audio isn't like car audio where pro level amps are stable at 1 or 2 ohms.
The XPA-1 gen 2 is (unofficially) stable at 2 ohms - but not below it. It produces 1700 something watts at that rating - though likely at increased distortion. The reason Lonnie the designer gave to not listing that as a feature was because somebody would then connect it to something that dips below 2 ohm and complain that the amp went in to protection. Interestingly since the XPA-1 gen 2 is a fully differential amp it sees a 4 ohm load as 2 ohms. So for it to be stable with a 2 ohm speaker load, it would be pushing output at 1 ohm. So it is pretty impressive. The Emotiva XPR-1 (which was an older amp) was so powerful that it produced over 2000 watts per channel at 4 ohms at 0.1 % THD. It had so much beef that both Emotiva and Audioholics were not able to actually measure its maximum power due to the need for large resistors in the measuring equipment and also they were unable to keep the voltage from sagging from the house power. At 1% distortion in a 4 ohm load it produced 2200 watts. I couldn't even begin to imagine what kind of power it could push at 2 ohms. Thanks for your input garbulky. I edited my post and found a possible solution. Do you know whether Emotiva amps are bridgeable? Can I bridge 2 channels in a multiple channel Emotiva Gen 3? |
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Post by garbulky on Jul 16, 2019 23:33:41 GMT -5
The XPA-1 gen 2 is (unofficially) stable at 2 ohms - but not below it. It produces 1700 something watts at that rating - though likely at increased distortion. The reason Lonnie the designer gave to not listing that as a feature was because somebody would then connect it to something that dips below 2 ohm and complain that the amp went in to protection. Interestingly since the XPA-1 gen 2 is a fully differential amp it sees a 4 ohm load as 2 ohms. So for it to be stable with a 2 ohm speaker load, it would be pushing output at 1 ohm. So it is pretty impressive. The Emotiva XPR-1 (which was an older amp) was so powerful that it produced over 2000 watts per channel at 4 ohms at 0.1 % THD. It had so much beef that both Emotiva and Audioholics were not able to actually measure its maximum power due to the need for large resistors in the measuring equipment and also they were unable to keep the voltage from sagging from the house power. At 1% distortion in a 4 ohm load it produced 2200 watts. I couldn't even begin to imagine what kind of power it could push at 2 ohms. Thanks for your input garbulky. I edited my post and found a possible solution. Do you know whether Emotiva amps are bridgeable? Can I bridge 2 channels in the Emotiva Gen 3? Also Emotiva has Emotiva PA-1 monoblock amps which use Ice modules priced at $300. These are perfect candidates for bi amping with a quad monoblock configuration at only $1200. I've tried the PA-1 monoblocks and I thought they were quite fantastic - and chose it over the XPA gen 3. However they are slightly less powerful on the bass and slam compared to the XPA-1 gen 2 and the XPA gen 3. Still the PA-1 amps were one of the best amps I have heard. As for bridging the Emotiva gen 3 - I don't think you can. |
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). Maybe he should bi-amp the L/R with the XPA-5 and run the center with the 5th channel, then buy another amp for ceilings? I'm not disagreeing with you, a DR-3 would likely be the best choice, I'm just saying to listen to the new speakers in the space and then decide what to do next. 
