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Post by Deleted on Jul 27, 2020 14:32:24 GMT -5
I’m reposting my ‘bottom line’ post with some clarifications, hopefully it will be understood by all, if not, please let me know what doesn’t make sense. *** Updated 7/30/2019 ****** Updated 7/27/2020 ***—Confirmed by Emotiva, ALL Emotiva amps of any generation have their XLR inputs wired with Pin #3+ ( the signal’s phase will be reversed by the amp) —Confirmed by Emotiva, ALL Emotiva preamps and processors have their XLR outputs wired Pin #2+ ( the signal’s phase will not be altered) —Confirmed by Emotiva, ALL Emotiva preamps and processor have their XLR inputs wired Pin #2+ ( the signal’s phase will not be altered) Note: Pin #2+ or Hot is the current standard, Pin #3+ or Hot is reversed— Confirmed by Emotiva, ALL Emotiva products are non-inverting through the RCA connections ( the signal’s phase will not be altered) I believe this now answers the phase questions regarding the balanced/XLR inputs and outputs on all Emotiva devices (and now RCA). Thanks, I'm confident now that my move away from Emotiva was the best solution. The Emotiva configuration makes little to no sense. Parasound review: "The voltage gain into 8 ohms measured 29.2dB from the balanced inputs, 29.4dB from the unbalanced inputs. In bridged-mono mode, the gain was 34.9dB into 8 ohms. The amplifier preserved absolute polarity (ie, was noninverting) with both balanced and unbalanced input signals and with the right channel used as the input in bridged-mono mode, with the outputs taken from the two positive loudspeaker terminals as described in the manual. The balanced input impedance was high at 90k ohms at 20Hz and 1kHz, dropping to a still-high 84k ohms at 20kHz. The unbalanced input impedance was 46k ohms at low and middle frequencies, 37k ohms at the top of the audioband." |
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Post by donh50 on Jul 27, 2020 20:08:16 GMT -5
I’m reposting my ‘bottom line’ post with some clarifications, hopefully it will be understood by all, if not, please let me know what doesn’t make sense. *** Updated 7/30/2019 ****** Updated 7/27/2020 ***—Confirmed by Emotiva, ALL Emotiva amps of any generation have their XLR inputs wired with Pin #3+ ( the signal’s phase will be reversed by the amp) —Confirmed by Emotiva, ALL Emotiva preamps and processors have their XLR outputs wired Pin #2+ ( the signal’s phase will not be altered) —Confirmed by Emotiva, ALL Emotiva preamps and processor have their XLR inputs wired Pin #2+ ( the signal’s phase will not be altered) Note: Pin #2+ or Hot is the current standard, Pin #3+ or Hot is reversed—Confirmed by Emotiva, ALL Emotiva products are non-inverting through the RCA connections ( the signal’s phase will not be altered) I believe this now answers the phase questions regarding the balanced/XLR inputs and outputs on all Emotiva devices (and now RCA). ^^^ Optimist...  It only matters if you are mixing components and not using room correction or something that can handle the polarity inversion automagically for you. Since I have tons of XLR cables around from my recording and sound reinforcement days, I don't want non-standard cables floating around (it will happen, eventually, at the worst possible time), so I flip the speaker connections at the amp and call it good. At the amp because I have changed speakers a few times in the 10+ years I've had the amps and that way I don't have to think about it, just connect at the speakers "normally". I have had a number of amps over the years; some inverted polarity, some did not, and it was rarely an issue or even noticeable. The times it was, it was very noticeable, and easily fixed. FWIWFM - Don |
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Post by thezone on Jul 27, 2020 21:40:08 GMT -5
Would this polarity inverse also apply to the PA-1 Balanced Class-D Monoblock? That appears to have no phase switch. So if I used 3 for LCR and say a BasX 500 the 3 fronts will be out of phase with my surround and subs?
What about emotiva SUBS?
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 27, 2020 23:38:07 GMT -5
Would this polarity inverse also apply to the PA-1 Balanced Class-D Monoblock? That appears to have no phase switch. So if I used 3 for LCR and say a BasX 500 the 3 fronts will be out of phase with my surround and subs? What about emotiva SUBS? So yes on the PA-1 being out of phase with the 500 (I think that’s in one of the first post scenarios), doubt the subs are reversed but don’t know. Few amps have phase switches. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 27, 2020 23:42:01 GMT -5
I’m reposting my ‘bottom line’ post with some clarifications, hopefully it will be understood by all, if not, please let me know what doesn’t make sense. *** Updated 7/30/2019 ****** Updated 7/27/2020 ***—Confirmed by Emotiva, ALL Emotiva amps of any generation have their XLR inputs wired with Pin #3+ ( the signal’s phase will be reversed by the amp) —Confirmed by Emotiva, ALL Emotiva preamps and processors have their XLR outputs wired Pin #2+ ( the signal’s phase will not be altered) —Confirmed by Emotiva, ALL Emotiva preamps and processor have their XLR inputs wired Pin #2+ ( the signal’s phase will not be altered) Note: Pin #2+ or Hot is the current standard, Pin #3+ or Hot is reversed—Confirmed by Emotiva, ALL Emotiva products are non-inverting through the RCA connections ( the signal’s phase will not be altered) I believe this now answers the phase questions regarding the balanced/XLR inputs and outputs on all Emotiva devices (and now RCA). ^^^ Optimist... It only matters if you are mixing components and not using room correction or something that can handle the polarity inversion automagically for you. Since I have tons of XLR cables around from my recording and sound reinforcement days, I don't want non-standard cables floating around (it will happen, eventually, at the worst possible time), so I flip the speaker connections at the amp and call it good. At the amp because I have changed speakers a few times in the 10+ years I've had the amps and that way I don't have to think about it, just connect at the speakers "normally". I have had a number of amps over the years; some inverted polarity, some did not, and it was rarely an issue or even noticeable. The times it was, it was very noticeable, and easily fixed. FWIWFM - Don I just think of it as documentation, facts, do with them as you will ... but you’re right, it certainly won’t be the last of this 🙂 |
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Post by thezone on Jul 28, 2020 0:34:49 GMT -5
Would this polarity inverse also apply to the PA-1 Balanced Class-D Monoblock? That appears to have no phase switch. So if I used 3 for LCR and say a BasX 500 the 3 fronts will be out of phase with my surround and subs? What about emotiva SUBS? So yes on the PA-1 being out of phase with the 500 (I think that’s in one of the first post scenarios), doubt the subs are reversed but don’t know. Few amps have phase switches. Jeez, this seem worrying. I guess the only solution is to buy 7 PA-1's for all the channels! |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 28, 2020 0:40:44 GMT -5
So yes on the PA-1 being out of phase with the 500 (I think that’s in one of the first post scenarios), doubt the subs are reversed but don’t know. Few amps have phase switches. Jeez, this seem worrying. I guess the only solution is to buy 7 PA-1's for all the channels! Yes, the electrons might get lost if you flipped the wires over. 🤔 But you’ll still probably have to deal with the subs. |
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Post by thezone on Jul 28, 2020 1:45:06 GMT -5
Jeez, this seem worrying. I guess the only solution is to buy 7 PA-1's for all the channels! Yes, the elections might get lost if you flipped the wires over. 🤔 But you’ll still probably have to deal with the subs. Elections? At least the subs have phase switches? |
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Post by thezone on Jul 28, 2020 6:12:08 GMT -5
I just went to the start of this thread and read KeihtL's solution for this "If one amplifier flips the absolute phase, you can correct it by flipping the wires on every speaker connected to that amplifier.".
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 28, 2020 7:02:53 GMT -5
Yes, the elections might get lost if you flipped the wires over. 🤔 But you’ll still probably have to deal with the subs. Elections? At least the subs have phase switches? Sorry, my attempt at humor collided with spell check, electrons! |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 28, 2020 7:06:10 GMT -5
I just went to the start of this thread and read KeihtL's solution for this "If one amplifier flips the absolute phase, you can correct it by flipping the wires on every speaker connected to that amplifier.". Yes, that’s in the scenarios post, I assumed you knew that, but were looking for an excuse to buy more PA-1’s. 🙂 |
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Post by foggy1956 on Jul 28, 2020 8:01:36 GMT -5
Elections? At least the subs have phase switches? Sorry, my attempt at humor collided with spell check, electrons! And here I thought you meant erections😂 |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 28, 2020 10:16:46 GMT -5
Sorry, my attempt at humor collided with spell check, electrons! And here I thought you meant erections😂 I expected to make that mistake! 😀 |
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Post by thezone on Jul 28, 2020 17:37:20 GMT -5
So to update this thread I just received confirmation from Emotiva that "The phase is only reversed on the XPA amplifiers". So the PA-1's and Subs are phase correct.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 29, 2020 0:29:31 GMT -5
So to update this thread I just received confirmation from Emotiva that "The phase is only reversed on the XPA amplifiers". So the PA-1's and Subs are phase correct. Really! That’s news, I could have sworn the PA-1 was stated to be wired the same. The subs make perfect sense. Ok, this contradicts what KeithL said earlier in this thread, this post —>: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/999764/threadHe says “ On ALL of our amps that have XLR inputs .... Pin 3 is (+)” I’m going to believe that until I hear otherwise. |
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Post by thezone on Jul 30, 2020 3:17:52 GMT -5
So to update this thread I just received confirmation from Emotiva that "The phase is only reversed on the XPA amplifiers". So the PA-1's and Subs are phase correct. Really! That’s news, I could have sworn the PA-1 was stated to be wired the same. The subs make perfect sense. Ok, this contradicts what KeithL said earlier in this thread, this post —>: emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/999764/threadHe says “ On ALL of our amps that have XLR inputs .... Pin 3 is (+)” I’m going to believe that until I hear otherwise. Well that's fair enough, but............lets face it, the PA-1 isnt really "their" amp. |
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Post by megash0n on Jul 31, 2020 9:34:04 GMT -5
Oddly, I reversed the pins on my XLR cable feeding the MiniDSP due to all the other speakers being behind XPA amps. What I found looking at an impulse response was that my subs are now out of phase with my mains. I'm quite confused by this, but I'll trust the measurement over everything else.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 31, 2020 10:13:55 GMT -5
Oddly, I reversed the pins on my XLR cable feeding the MiniDSP due to all the other speakers being behind XPA amps. What I found looking at an impulse response was that my subs are now out of phase with my mains. I'm quite confused by this, but I'll trust the measurement over everything else. That is interesting, have you tried measuring at the crossover point as described in the article at this post? I agree with measurements too. emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/999711/thread |
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Post by megash0n on Jul 31, 2020 10:22:58 GMT -5
Oddly, I reversed the pins on my XLR cable feeding the MiniDSP due to all the other speakers being behind XPA amps. What I found looking at an impulse response was that my subs are now out of phase with my mains. I'm quite confused by this, but I'll trust the measurement over everything else. That is interesting, have you tried measuring at the crossover point as described in the article at this post? I agree with measurements too. emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/999711/threadI haven't but I did just read it. Basically, measure SPL at the crossover flipping the polarity to see which one is louder? I can easily test this hitting the invert button in MiniDSP. I'm planning to do a lot of testing today with some extra panels in attempt to fix some dips I have in the dialogue range. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to do much to help in the lower spectrum. I'm just trying to get everything as "right" as possible before running the million Dirac measurements again. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 31, 2020 10:39:57 GMT -5
I haven't but I did just read it. Basically, measure SPL at the crossover flipping the polarity to see which one is louder? I can easily test this hitting the invert button in MiniDSP. I'm planning to do a lot of testing today with some extra panels in attempt to fix some dips I have in the dialogue range. I'm not sure I'm going to be able to do much to help in the lower spectrum. I'm just trying to get everything as "right" as possible before running the million Dirac measurements again. Right, though most of the time we’re using pink noise and this requires a sine wave (so be careful with levels), and even though these wavelengths are long, measuring at the MLP. Getting everything dialed in before more measurements is a good plan. |
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