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Post by bluescale on May 4, 2020 16:35:32 GMT -5
There is a possibility I am incorrect about my assertion. I've been thinking about this a lot, and hit up a few pages on the internet about LFE tracks and such. What I was trying to convey, incorrect or not, is that rew is just "routing" A PCM encoded sweep to the speaker channel designated as the LFE channel. Not that it was necessarily "encoded to be the .1 track". If that makes sense. So, how does the processor know the difference between it being the left channel or the sub? The routing happens inside REW, or the OS, and then sent to the processor as a PCM stream. This is how I was thinking thru it. I was trying to think thru what could possibly be making this happen. Sometimes my engineering brain goes too deep and it gets me in trouble. 😂😂😂 I think we're mostly in agreement here. REW sends a PCM signal to the XMC-2 based on the criteria designated in the REW settings. In this case, the signal is set to be a full frequency sweep. The XMC-2 should then then apply bass management based on the user's specified settings. In this case, despite the settings specified in the XMC-2, it's acting like a low pass filter is applied. Either there's a configuration setting we're collectively missing (and as you mentioned perviously, this would all be simpler if we were in the same room, going over this together), or something is misbehaving. kahodges1721 - Let me know if my summary matches up with your understanding of the issue. Oh, and I'm glad to see you reached out to Austin Jerry. I went and checked his guide earlier to see if it specified anything about how the HDMI 4 signal works, but it's not in there. |
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Post by megash0n on May 4, 2020 17:15:01 GMT -5
There is a possibility I am incorrect about my assertion. I've been thinking about this a lot, and hit up a few pages on the internet about LFE tracks and such. What I was trying to convey, incorrect or not, is that rew is just "routing" A PCM encoded sweep to the speaker channel designated as the LFE channel. Not that it was necessarily "encoded to be the .1 track". If that makes sense. So, how does the processor know the difference between it being the left channel or the sub? The routing happens inside REW, or the OS, and then sent to the processor as a PCM stream. This is how I was thinking thru it. I was trying to think thru what could possibly be making this happen. Sometimes my engineering brain goes too deep and it gets me in trouble. 😂😂😂 I think we're mostly in agreement here. REW sends a PCM signal to the XMC-2 based on the criteria designated in the REW settings. In this case, the signal is set to be a full frequency sweep. The XMC-2 should then then apply bass management based on the user's specified settings. In this case, despite the settings specified in the XMC-2, it's acting like a low pass filter is applied. Either there's a configuration setting we're collectively missing (and as you mentioned perviously, this would all be simpler if we were in the same room, going over this together), or something is misbehaving. kahodges1721 - Let me know if my summary matches up with your understanding of the issue. Oh, and I'm glad to see you reached out to Austin Jerry. I went and checked his guide earlier to see if it specified anything about how the HDMI 4 signal works, but it's not in there. That was an outstanding way to convey what I was trying to say. My brain gets so focused on the technical aspects that sometimes I get lost in the weeds. So I'm told. 😂😂😂😂 |
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Post by megash0n on May 4, 2020 17:32:06 GMT -5
Not to chime in and forgive me if what I’m saying isn’t relevant to your discussion but when REW sends an LFE signal it goes to my subwoofer. But since there is only one LFE channel in REW, I have to only have one subwoofer selected in my XMC2 (I think mono) and I use the left sub output. Not sure if the last point matters but the processor knows. Now that you mention it, it does send to the sub if you use subwoofers for a level check. I wonder if the same thing happens when you select that channel designated for LFE . |
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Post by bluescale on May 4, 2020 18:55:01 GMT -5
That was an outstanding way to convey what I was trying to say. My brain gets so focused on the technical aspects that sometimes I get lost in the weeds. So I'm told. 😂😂😂😂 My career has been built on clarifying technical information put forth by engineers.  |
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Post by megash0n on May 4, 2020 19:08:59 GMT -5
That was an outstanding way to convey what I was trying to say. My brain gets so focused on the technical aspects that sometimes I get lost in the weeds. So I'm told. 😂😂😂😂 My career has been built on clarifying technical information put forth by engineers. I'm mainly in Sales Engineering at this point. "Simple" is on my short list of self-improvements. Haha. I do tend to dig into the weeds. Details matter. |
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Post by markc on May 5, 2020 2:23:38 GMT -5
Could I suggest that things like troubleshooting REW go into a separate forum post, and only if it results in information relevant to the operation or function of the XMC/RMC units does it come here.
I have to browse the forum on my phone, so scrolling through the not-so-relevant-to-topic REW curves of someone's living room to try and find the pertinent stuff is a little tricky.
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on May 5, 2020 2:49:55 GMT -5
^^^^^^
That's probably a good idea. A good repository for all things REW related to subwoofers.
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Post by napsterau on May 5, 2020 3:48:50 GMT -5
When can we expect the next firmware update and Dirac?
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Post by SteveInNC on May 5, 2020 4:44:34 GMT -5
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Post by megash0n on May 5, 2020 7:25:51 GMT -5
Could I suggest that things like troubleshooting REW go into a separate forum post, and only if it results in information relevant to the operation or function of the XMC/RMC units does it come here. I have to browse the forum on my phone, so scrolling through the not-so-relevant-to-topic REW curves of someone's living room to try and find the pertinent stuff is a little tricky. While I agree, it did end up being an issue with the processor itself. I've done this too, and in hindsight, you realize that should have been it's own post. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on May 5, 2020 8:45:03 GMT -5
Could I suggest that things like troubleshooting REW go into a separate forum post, and only if it results in information relevant to the operation or function of the XMC/RMC units does it come here. I have to browse the forum on my phone, so scrolling through the not-so-relevant-to-topic REW curves of someone's living room to try and find the pertinent stuff is a little tricky. I think that’s a good idea too, as it applies to all the new processors (and probably the XMC-1). A new thread and resource would help everyone, Dirac will probably need the same (as ansat started for the XMC-1). While I won’t suggest using the following as it’s probably somewhat dated, it could be a reference within the new thread. emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/18877/faq-use-rew-beginners-class |
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Post by marcl on May 5, 2020 11:05:02 GMT -5
Not to chime in and forgive me if what I’m saying isn’t relevant to your discussion but when REW sends an LFE signal it goes to my subwoofer. But since there is only one LFE channel in REW, I have to only have one subwoofer selected in my XMC2 (I think mono) and I use the left sub output. Not sure if the last point matters but the processor knows. Now that you mention it, it does send to the sub if you use subwoofers for a level check. I wonder if the same thing happens when you select that channel designated for LFE . I've been loosely following this discussion and it reminds me of a puzzle I was trying to solve regarding the upper rolloff of my sub. I believe the XMC-2 regards the LFE channel to have an upper limit of 120Hz and so if you have the sub rolloff set to 24db/octave and run REW output 4 full range (assuming your sub responds up to 200Hz or so) you will see the response roll off at 24db/Octave above 120Hz. If you change the sub rolloff to 12db/octave and run the same REW channel 4 sweep it will go all the way to around 200Hz. Now ..... set the crossover for one of your channels like Left to 200Hz, and turn off the left channel amp. Run the REW sweep for output 1 (left channel) and only the sub will respond. REW is not sending anything to the LFE (output 4) and you are seeing the XMC-2 bass management sending the left channel bass to the sub and it will roll off on the high end according to the crossover frequency and the sub setting either 12 or 24 db/octave. Depending on your settings, what you see for the left channel bass response in this test can be different from what you saw for the REW output 4 LFE response. How do I know it treats the LFE channel as having an upper limit of 120Hz? I ran the test just described for the left channel with the left amp off, and I can reproduce the REW output 4 response if I set the left crossover to 120Hz and run with the rolloff at 12 or 24db/octave. If I'm missing the crux of it I apologize ...I'll go back and read the thread again. :-) |
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Post by megash0n on May 5, 2020 11:59:56 GMT -5
Now that you mention it, it does send to the sub if you use subwoofers for a level check. I wonder if the same thing happens when you select that channel designated for LFE . I've been loosely following this discussion and it reminds me of a puzzle I was trying to solve regarding the upper rolloff of my sub. I believe the XMC-2 regards the LFE channel to have an upper limit of 120Hz and so if you have the sub rolloff set to 24db/octave and run REW output 4 full range (assuming your sub responds up to 200Hz or so) you will see the response roll off at 24db/Octave above 120Hz. If you change the sub rolloff to 12db/octave and run the same REW channel 4 sweep it will go all the way to around 200Hz. Now ..... set the crossover for one of your channels like Left to 200Hz, and turn off the left channel amp. Run the REW sweep for output 1 (left channel) and only the sub will respond. REW is not sending anything to the LFE (output 4) and you are seeing the XMC-2 bass management sending the left channel bass to the sub and it will roll off on the high end according to the crossover frequency and the sub setting either 12 or 24 db/octave. Depending on your settings, what you see for the left channel bass response in this test can be different from what you saw for the REW output 4 LFE response. How do I know it treats the LFE channel as having an upper limit of 120Hz? I ran the test just described for the left channel with the left amp off, and I can reproduce the REW output 4 response if I set the left crossover to 120Hz and run with the rolloff at 12 or 24db/octave. If I'm missing the crux of it I apologize ...I'll go back and read the thread again. :-) I'm not sure I am completely following either, but I think some of the challenge in communication between us all is due to using the acronym LFE when we are referring to sub output. To me, LFE and sub output are different things. One is an encoding if you will while the other is a channel routing mechanic. Crossovers and such are relevant to the channel routing mechanic... Not an "LFE signal". |
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Post by marcl on May 5, 2020 13:42:19 GMT -5
I've been loosely following this discussion and it reminds me of a puzzle I was trying to solve regarding the upper rolloff of my sub. I believe the XMC-2 regards the LFE channel to have an upper limit of 120Hz and so if you have the sub rolloff set to 24db/octave and run REW output 4 full range (assuming your sub responds up to 200Hz or so) you will see the response roll off at 24db/Octave above 120Hz. If you change the sub rolloff to 12db/octave and run the same REW channel 4 sweep it will go all the way to around 200Hz. Now ..... set the crossover for one of your channels like Left to 200Hz, and turn off the left channel amp. Run the REW sweep for output 1 (left channel) and only the sub will respond. REW is not sending anything to the LFE (output 4) and you are seeing the XMC-2 bass management sending the left channel bass to the sub and it will roll off on the high end according to the crossover frequency and the sub setting either 12 or 24 db/octave. Depending on your settings, what you see for the left channel bass response in this test can be different from what you saw for the REW output 4 LFE response. How do I know it treats the LFE channel as having an upper limit of 120Hz? I ran the test just described for the left channel with the left amp off, and I can reproduce the REW output 4 response if I set the left crossover to 120Hz and run with the rolloff at 12 or 24db/octave. If I'm missing the crux of it I apologize ...I'll go back and read the thread again. :-) I'm not sure I am completely following either, but I think some of the challenge in communication between us all is due to using the acronym LFE when we are referring to sub output. To me, LFE and sub output are different things. One is an encoding if you will while the other is a channel routing mechanic. Crossovers and such are relevant to the channel routing mechanic... Not an "LFE signal". Right ... the sub output of a processor can contain two types of signals: The LFE channel (.1) of an x.1.y multichannel source; and the bass frequencies of all channels that have been configured as "small". When REW sends output 4, the processor treats it like LFE. When REW sends any of the other outputs, the processor applies bass management to those configured as "small" and sends below the crossover to the sub output and above the crossover to the channel output. The slope of the crossover for both low pass and high pass is set by the configured parameter either 12 or 24db/octave. The actual LFE signal does have an upper limit whose slope is subject to the configured value, and it's upper frequency appears to be 120Hz. Here's a plot of the LFE (output 4) vs the Left (output 1) ... both with slope set to 24db/octave. Left channel crossover set to 200Hz with main amp off so only the bass is present. Attachments:
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Post by ouddyhot on May 7, 2020 10:37:42 GMT -5
![]() xmc 2 subwoofer without crossovers, such as To choose120-100-80 Like marantz   |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on May 9, 2020 14:44:36 GMT -5
For those with external DACs, where does the XMC2’s DAC rank.
For example, Stereophile recommended components as a grading scale.
Is it A+, A, B etc.
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Post by repeetavx on May 9, 2020 17:04:46 GMT -5
Here's one company's chart on how they tested various DACs including the XMC-1 and RMC-1. The DAC section for the front three channels of the XMC-2 should be identical to the RMC-1. (Hint, they are near the bottom of the green section of the chart). DAC Chart |
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Post by Lsc on May 9, 2020 18:59:04 GMT -5
Here's one company's chart on how they tested various DACs including the XMC-1 and RMC-1. The DAC section for the front three channels of the XMC-2 should be identical to the RMC-1. (Hint, they are near the bottom of the green section of the chart). DAC ChartThank you! This is very helpful. Wow, I was hoping to not buy a DAC. My buddy has a $4000 DAC that’s noticeably better than a DAC from a blue sound streamer. It really made a difference but I’m hoping the XMC2 with Dirac can be my 2 channel solution. I thought these Emotiva processors are as good as standalone DACs. I guess I shouldn’t expect a $3000 processor with everything going on to equal a $2000-$4000 DAC. Probably asking for too much 😊. |
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Post by repeetavx on May 9, 2020 19:09:34 GMT -5
Yeah. According to their chart, the "SINAD" score for the Bluesounds are at least 10 db worse than our Emotiva products.
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Post by hytram on May 9, 2020 20:52:29 GMT -5
Here's one company's chart on how they tested various DACs including the XMC-1 and RMC-1. The DAC section for the front three channels of the XMC-2 should be identical to the RMC-1. (Hint, they are near the bottom of the green section of the chart). DAC ChartThank you! This is very helpful. Wow, I was hoping to not buy a DAC. My buddy has a $4000 DAC that’s noticeably better than a DAC from a blue sound streamer. It really made a difference but I’m hoping the XMC2 with Dirac can be my 2 channel solution. I thought these Emotiva processors are as good as standalone DACs. I guess I shouldn’t expect a $3000 processor with everything going on to equal a $2000-$4000 DAC. Probably asking for too much 😊. That's not "one company", that is one persons own Web site with questionable testing and no listening tests.. If you want to compare, see if you can borrow the DAC and do some listening tests between the 2, the one that sounds better to you is the one that is better for you. Then we can start up an other argument on defining the word 'better' in regards to hifi listening ;-) |
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