Lsc
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 3,435
|
Post by Lsc on Nov 23, 2019 0:50:08 GMT -5
When I received my XMC-2 I could not get it to anything. No sound out of speakers, no acknowledged connection to the TV. I called Emotiva and the first thing we did after verifying all the connections was to reset the unit. That accomplished nothing, except to erase all of my previous setup. We then proceeded to upgrade the firmware to 1.7. That at lease allowed me to get some sound out of the speaker for the setup. Using the remote the tv then acknowledged the setup commands but I found that even that is spotty. Thats nuts. Unless someone else here has a solution, especially concerning your Apple TV 4K not working after a short period of time, I would call Emotiva back to try and resolve and if that doesn't work, ask to return it for them to check it out. Not something you want to do I'm sure. You can reset the unit and save settings prior to doing that. You would save settings internally, then reset, then bring them back in. Sounds like that is not the issue though. It is weird how the inconsistent the results are. I have zero issues with ATV4K and 1.7 - I’m watching it right now. Is it cables? Is it QC? Such a bummer. |
|
|
|
Post by cwt on Nov 23, 2019 1:25:24 GMT -5
The point that you had to decrease the Appletv bandwidth from 60hz to 25hz to get a signal through means your cables are probably not making the 18gbps bandwidth required for 4k/60 . 1 cable is obviously less length than 2 which is important with these bandwidths - 15 feet or more fibre optic like Ruipro is usually needed. Otherwise copper cables that are certified 4k compliant for shorter lengths are fine . I see you are also in a PAL country like me as you picked a free to air refresh rate[25hz] to drop the bandwidth . This is usually only for SDR sources but wont send the full boat HDR or WCG in 4k as Vincent Teoh explains here [if you haven't seen this?] youtu.be/pNgwkK1iyzg |
|
|
|
Post by bastille on Nov 23, 2019 13:56:01 GMT -5
Alright so a nice 3-4 hour listening session last night. Here are my thoughts.
The Arcam out of the box sounded harsh. Powerful but harsh. About an hour into playing last night, which would have been about its 5th hour of overall use, it started to sound different. The high end was still and is IMO a bit harsh. The way Klipsch speakers are but not quite as much. I dont love this sound which is what started my $50k journey to achieving the sound I like starting from a pair of Klipsch towers. At one point I started thinking the Arcam goes back. The XMC-2 is not harsh at all here. Its got an awesome smoothness which I love. The Emo wins the high end game with no question. I think this is where Dirac will improve the Arcam once i find that time.
Now for the other differences. The mid frequencies that IMO the XMC-2 struggles with are front and center with the Arcam. The clarity for both stereo and surround vocals is fantastic and its what made me start looking at other amps. Purple Rain is a great reference song for this difference between the 2 Pros. At this point I deciced to swap the new NAD m22 in for the Emotiva Reference stereo amp. Man did this change things even better. The staging and imaging suddenly became 3D. All the sounds became objects and if you close your eyes you can visualize them as instruments in a theatre with the stage covering front, sides and even backs a little(though this last part may be more leather sofa sound reflection, or possibly from being baked). You can pick out instruments not only across the left and right stage but a front and back dimension. The singer can be visualized as dead center stage and up a bit as if in a concert set up with the instruments behind and to the sides. This is something I have only heard with headphones before on my LCD-Xs. Really awesome. Its almost as if surround is on in stereo mode. I mitigated the high end issue by reducing treble to -1. It solves the problem and im sure dirac will perfect it.
Now the low end which is where the Arcam gets the lead big time. The low end drums and kicks become their own stage below the main stage. They too have a front and back dimension within their own stage. You can hear the oscillating frequencies within the overall sound of the bass. If you produce any music with synths you know what I mean in terms of shaping sounds.
Yes I was pretty baked while listening to all this. And yes I am now as well. But this is how I listen to music. Im sure most of you have similar experiences. This is turning into an interesting experience hearing the differences between some of this gear.
|
|
|
|
Post by bastille on Nov 23, 2019 14:06:16 GMT -5
Also aesthetically the NAD has fit right in. Matches the Def Tech 9080 series almost as if made for each other.  |
|
|
|
Post by emofrmcgy on Nov 23, 2019 14:07:28 GMT -5
Also aesthetically the NAD has fit right in. Matches the Def Tech 9080 series almost as if made for each other. So you're comparing the m22 to a dr2 ? |
|
|
|
Post by bastille on Nov 23, 2019 14:50:32 GMT -5
Also aesthetically the NAD has fit right in. Matches the Def Tech 9080 series almost as if made for each other. ![]() So you're comparing the m22 to a dr2 ? Yes its a DR2 |
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Nov 23, 2019 18:19:39 GMT -5
It is weird how the inconsistent the results are. I have zero issues with ATV4K and 1.7 - I’m watching it right now. Is it cables? Is it QC? Such a bummer. In my experience it's a 50/50 answer, split between HDMI cables and set up, that's settings n the sources and the XMC. That's why I always start with one source and one cable, work on getting that source working perfectly, then move on to next source. That also helps as I can often use the same or similar settings in the next source. Trying to debug multiple sources simultaneously is just an exercise in frustration. Get one right and then move to the next one, yes it takes time and can be frustrating, we all want to connect everything up as soon as we unpack the box and try them all. With HDMI and HDCP it just doesn't work that way and it's getting worse not better. Cheers Gary |
|
|
|
Post by bastille on Nov 23, 2019 18:53:11 GMT -5
But what when adding the 2nd source breaks the first?
|
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Nov 23, 2019 19:01:55 GMT -5
But what when adding the 2nd source breaks the first? Unusual, very unusual, in my experience, particularly with the set up options for each input that XMC's and RMC's have. Of course it's possible to have an issue but it's far more likely to be related to that source and hence can be fixed by optimising the set up in that source alone. Plus, since I have the first source working perfectly, I'm very reluctant to change that. Cheers Gary |
|
Lsc
Emo VIPs
Posts: 3,435
|
Post by Lsc on Nov 23, 2019 19:58:35 GMT -5
It is weird how the inconsistent the results are. I have zero issues with ATV4K and 1.7 - I’m watching it right now. Is it cables? Is it QC? Such a bummer. In my experience it's a 50/50 answer, split between HDMI cables and set up, that's settings n the sources and the XMC. That's why I always start with one source and one cable, work on getting that source working perfectly, then move on to next source. That also helps as I can often use the same or similar settings in the next source. Trying to debug multiple sources simultaneously is just an exercise in frustration. Get one right and then move to the next one, yes it takes time and can be frustrating, we all want to connect everything up as soon as we unpack the box and try them all. With HDMI and HDCP it just doesn't work that way and it's getting worse not better. Cheers Gary And I can’t speak to any of the issues because I don’t have them. My ATV4K works with no issue, even figured out the ARC on my LG oled tv which requires turning off the XMC2 and back on, and my 4K blu-ray works good now that they fixed the DTS issue. |
|
|
|
Post by bastille on Nov 24, 2019 0:19:42 GMT -5
But what when adding the 2nd source breaks the first? Unusual, very unusual, in my experience, particularly with the set up options for each input that XMC's and RMC's have. Of course it's possible to have an issue but it's far more likely to be related to that source and hence can be fixed by optimising the set up in that source alone. Plus, since I have the first source working perfectly, I'm very reluctant to change that. Cheers Gary I have identified my Samsung BluRay player as a problem on both the XMC and the Arcam. If its in the mic then ARC breaks. Now the XMC cant do ARC anyway as it eventually starts to have noise blips. But on the Arcam the ARC becomes problem free without the Samsung plugged in. With it plugged in I get no sound out of ARC. |
|
|
|
Post by bastille on Nov 24, 2019 0:44:40 GMT -5
I have some interesting bits of info which currently apply to the Arcam but I will be testing on the XMC as well.
Sometimes things just fall into place. So I also purchased a NAD C 658 hoping streaming music from a streamer would solve the muting problems. I already had a Node2i but that was set up in another room for my Buchardt S400 SEs. Now my setup in that room had a couple issues because my amp there is a Nova 220SE which has a built in DAC. The Node2i also has a DAC and they werent playing nice with each other and a subwoofer in that setup. The Node has a sub out and the Nova has a sub out so switching between DACs is a pain when I want the sub. Problem is the NOde does MQA and the Nova does not. But for regular streams the Nova sounds better. Anyway...
So new problem, the NAD streamer doesnt have an optical out! In the Arcam/XMC setup I would be forced to use its DAC and output to RCA to the Arcam(no XLR in, the NAD has XLR out)I decide to move the Node down to the setup Ive been discussing here and the NAD Dac now goes up into the other setup. I am hopeful the NAD sounds better than the Node and so the MQA/Sub problem would be solved by that. As a bonus that NADs XLR outs would then feed my 789 headphone amp. But thats testing for another day.
Now with the Node into the Arcam I pick up some interesting options. The Node has Digital out so I dont need its Dac, the Arcam takes care of that. And the Node doesnt mute for most songs and the ones it does are a quick blip compared to the 2 seconds on the XMC. Same as with the Arcam + Surface. Seems to be song dependant but most songs are fixed. I will test the XMC in this setup as well once the XLR splitter arrives. This will decide if I keep the XMC.
Now with the Arcam getting the Nodes coax out into its in I pick up a nifty option. The Arcam allows you to adjust some things per input that the XMC I dont believe can. So my Coax in can have an HDMI video only mirror assigned to it with no HDMI sound from that input. So the Node sends sound and it picks up video from the Surface input. So I can play music from my phone while surfing the net on the big screen. If I want to switch to Surface with sound I just select its HDMI full input.
I'm in heaven with this setup for now.
|
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Nov 24, 2019 2:43:16 GMT -5
I have some interesting bits of info which currently apply to the Arcam but I will be testing on the XMC as well. Sometimes things just fall into place. So I also purchased a NAD C 658 hoping streaming music from a streamer would solve the muting problems. I already had a Node2i but that was set up in another room for my Buchardt S400 SEs. Now my setup in that room had a couple issues because my amp there is a Nova 220SE which has a built in DAC. The Node2i also has a DAC and they werent playing nice with each other and a subwoofer in that setup. The Node has a sub out and the Nova has a sub out so switching between DACs is a pain when I want the sub. Problem is the NOde does MQA and the Nova does not. But for regular streams the Nova sounds better. Anyway... So new problem, the NAD streamer doesnt have an optical out! In the Arcam/XMC setup I would be forced to use its DAC and output to RCA to the Arcam(no XLR in, the NAD has XLR out)I decide to move the Node down to the setup Ive been discussing here and the NAD Dac now goes up into the other setup. I am hopeful the NAD sounds better than the Node and so the MQA/Sub problem would be solved by that. As a bonus that NADs XLR outs would then feed my 789 headphone amp. But thats testing for another day. Now with the Node into the Arcam I pick up some interesting options. The Node has Digital out so I dont need its Dac, the Arcam takes care of that. And the Node doesnt mute for most songs and the ones it does are a quick blip compared to the 2 seconds on the XMC. Same as with the Arcam + Surface. Seems to be song dependant but most songs are fixed. I will test the XMC in this setup as well once the XLR splitter arrives. This will decide if I keep the XMC. Now with the Arcam getting the Nodes coax out into its in I pick up a nifty option. The Arcam allows you to adjust some things per input that the XMC I dont believe can. So my Coax in can have an HDMI video only mirror assigned to it with no HDMI sound from that input. So the Node sends sound and it picks up video from the Surface input. So I can play music from my phone while surfing the net on the big screen. If I want to switch to Surface with sound I just select its HDMI full input. I'm in heaven with this setup for now. I'm not sure about the XMC-2 but my XMC-1 on the input for my Mac Mini I use HDMI 3 but the audio I have it setup for USB, works like a charm  Have you tried using say the coax out on the NAD into the XMC-2, or even the Balanced output of the NAD into the Balanced input of the XMC-2, the latter would get rid of any loss at the beginning of the tracks. Chad |
|
|
|
Post by bastille on Nov 24, 2019 3:10:27 GMT -5
I have some interesting bits of info which currently apply to the Arcam but I will be testing on the XMC as well. Sometimes things just fall into place. So I also purchased a NAD C 658 hoping streaming music from a streamer would solve the muting problems. I already had a Node2i but that was set up in another room for my Buchardt S400 SEs. Now my setup in that room had a couple issues because my amp there is a Nova 220SE which has a built in DAC. The Node2i also has a DAC and they werent playing nice with each other and a subwoofer in that setup. The Node has a sub out and the Nova has a sub out so switching between DACs is a pain when I want the sub. Problem is the NOde does MQA and the Nova does not. But for regular streams the Nova sounds better. Anyway... So new problem, the NAD streamer doesnt have an optical out! In the Arcam/XMC setup I would be forced to use its DAC and output to RCA to the Arcam(no XLR in, the NAD has XLR out)I decide to move the Node down to the setup Ive been discussing here and the NAD Dac now goes up into the other setup. I am hopeful the NAD sounds better than the Node and so the MQA/Sub problem would be solved by that. As a bonus that NADs XLR outs would then feed my 789 headphone amp. But thats testing for another day. Now with the Node into the Arcam I pick up some interesting options. The Node has Digital out so I dont need its Dac, the Arcam takes care of that. And the Node doesnt mute for most songs and the ones it does are a quick blip compared to the 2 seconds on the XMC. Same as with the Arcam + Surface. Seems to be song dependant but most songs are fixed. I will test the XMC in this setup as well once the XLR splitter arrives. This will decide if I keep the XMC. Now with the Arcam getting the Nodes coax out into its in I pick up a nifty option. The Arcam allows you to adjust some things per input that the XMC I dont believe can. So my Coax in can have an HDMI video only mirror assigned to it with no HDMI sound from that input. So the Node sends sound and it picks up video from the Surface input. So I can play music from my phone while surfing the net on the big screen. If I want to switch to Surface with sound I just select its HDMI full input. I'm in heaven with this setup for now. I'm not sure about the XMC-2 but my XMC-1 on the input for my Mac Mini I use HDMI 3 but the audio I have it setup for USB, works like a charm Have you tried using say the coax out on the NAD into the XMC-2, or even the Balanced output of the NAD into the Balanced input of the XMC-2, the latter would get rid of any loss at the beginning of the tracks. Chad The NAD doesnt have a coax out. That other scenario though I may test it out to hear the combo, would introduce a wasted DAC. Unless youre saying the Emo would color the sound of the NADs DAC'd audio. Worth a listen. That would introduce a sceanrio where the XMC2 would decode theatre inputs and the NAD decodes the music. |
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Nov 24, 2019 6:31:25 GMT -5
That scenario though I may test it out to hear the combo, would introduce a wasted DAC. Unless youre saying the Emo would color the sound of the NADs DAC'd audio. Worth a listen. That would introduce a sceanrio where the XMC2 would decode theatre inputs and the NAD decodes the music. I use the DAC in the ERC-3 when playing CD’s via the XSP-1. I use the DAC in the XMC-1 when playing multi channel SACD’s in the Sony BDP. Following your logic, since I have 3 DAC’s, I am “wasting” 2 DAC’s no matter what source I am using for listening to music. Cheers Gary |
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Nov 24, 2019 6:37:41 GMT -5
Unusual, very unusual, in my experience, particularly with the set up options for each input that XMC's and RMC's have. Of course it's possible to have an issue but it's far more likely to be related to that source and hence can be fixed by optimising the set up in that source alone. Plus, since I have the first source working perfectly, I'm very reluctant to change that. I have identified my Samsung BluRay player as a problem on both the XMC and the Arcam. If its in the mic then ARC breaks. Now the XMC cant do ARC anyway as it eventually starts to have noise blips. But on the Arcam the ARC becomes problem free without the Samsung plugged in. With it plugged in I get no sound out of ARC. ARC and it’s close relative CEC are the devil’s children, they will always find a way to screw you over. My advice to every one every time is to turn them off, turn them off in all sources and turn them off in the processor. They are simply not worth the pain and heartache. Cheers Gary |
|
|
|
Post by bastille on Nov 24, 2019 10:34:31 GMT -5
That scenario though I may test it out to hear the combo, would introduce a wasted DAC. Unless youre saying the Emo would color the sound of the NADs DAC'd audio. Worth a listen. That would introduce a sceanrio where the XMC2 would decode theatre inputs and the NAD decodes the music. I use the DAC in the ERC-3 when playing CD’s via the XSP-1. I use the DAC in the XMC-1 when playing multi channel SACD’s in the Sony BDP. Following your logic, since I have 3 DAC’s, I am “wasting” 2 DAC’s no matter what source I am using for listening to music. Cheers Gary Well, yes. Its not a violent crime so not the end of the world but I feel like there's too many DACs in the world in general to be honest. |
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Nov 24, 2019 11:15:17 GMT -5
I'm not sure about the XMC-2 but my XMC-1 on the input for my Mac Mini I use HDMI 3 but the audio I have it setup for USB, works like a charm Have you tried using say the coax out on the NAD into the XMC-2, or even the Balanced output of the NAD into the Balanced input of the XMC-2, the latter would get rid of any loss at the beginning of the tracks. Chad The NAD doesnt have a coax out. That other scenario though I may test it out to hear the combo, would introduce a wasted DAC. Unless youre saying the Emo would color the sound of the NADs DAC'd audio. Worth a listen. That would introduce a sceanrio where the XMC2 would decode theatre inputs and the NAD decodes the music. Ah I thought it had a coax output but those are both inputs, it does have the XLR outs though that you could use which would mean you are using the DAC in the NAD which I'm thinking wouldn't be horrible. Chad |
|
|
|
Post by cwt on Nov 25, 2019 4:49:10 GMT -5
Looks interesting but im done with experimental cutting edge products after the XMC2 issues. I want something stable that will play an entire song not 99% of it and call it "a feature" to remove the first few sounds for me. I can just plug my ears manually for such a feature. May be a good move to check out avforums bastille about bad firmwares [not just Emo's recent 1.7 effort]  Have read a few comments about previous FMJ owners cheesed off about arcam moving on to a new range ignoring the former. www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/3098290-arcam-avr10-20-30-av40-pa240-410-720-a-6.html#post58867688 |
|
|
|
Post by bastille on Nov 25, 2019 7:52:18 GMT -5
Looks interesting but im done with experimental cutting edge products after the XMC2 issues. I want something stable that will play an entire song not 99% of it and call it "a feature" to remove the first few sounds for me. I can just plug my ears manually for such a feature. May be a good move to check out avforums bastille about bad firmwares [not just Emo's recent 1.7 effort] Have read a few comments about previous FMJ owners cheesed off about arcam moving on to a new range ignoring the former. www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/3098290-arcam-avr10-20-30-av40-pa240-410-720-a-6.html#post58867688That is interesting. I wasnt expecting that at these price points. Ive had countless mostly problem free receivers in the $500 range for decades. |
|
Have read a few comments about previous FMJ owners cheesed off about arcam moving on to a new range ignoring the former. 