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Post by almor54 on Jan 7, 2020 7:27:05 GMT -5
Customers have already paid for it. Was due for the holidays, now Quarter I... which year? Still bugs in the firmware too.
We all love Emotiva and their products. But, it is a for-profit business not an NGO. What incentive do they have to prioritize Dirac and firmware improvements now that XMC-2s have been paid for and exchanged XMC-1s are on EBay etc. generating revenue? Plenty of effort for holiday sales etc. but little if any ongoing updates on these issues.
Would customers be this complacent with Ford or BMW? Sorry the heat/AC don’t work, we’ll have a fix by the holidays or next quarter. How do we know how many resources are being applied to these issues? XMC-2 was put on the market prematurely and incomplete IMHO.
Trade-up was a nice deal on the surface, but without these already paid for items (Dirac, bug-free operation) NOT SO MUCH. What I have is a unit that could sound better than XMC-1,but doesn’t and is as glitchy as UMC-1. Guess I did get a new warranty if there is a total failure, but these performance issues don’t trigger a warranty claim and until the product and all supporting technology is completed there would be no whole remedy.
Sorry for the rant, but not appreciative of businesses over promising and under delivering.
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Post by almor54 on Jan 7, 2020 8:03:07 GMT -5
“PLEASE WAIT” Is this annoying or what? My windows desktop PC boots up faster than this. Changing inputs starts the process all over again. About the only thing that doesn’t trigger a PLEASE WAIT is changing the volume. ...and in the set up menu, prepare to take short naps.
Then there is the interface with the cutting edge tech of a cable TV set top box (Ha!)... every time the content has a change in mode eg. from a 5.1 program to a 2.0 commercial TOTAL FUBAR. Turn everything off and start over and PLEASE WAIT.
Again the automobile analogy: Sorry it’s cold, you’re late for work and need to start the car....PLEASE WAIT....
Not an expert, but did someone way under spec the processor to save money? Firmware ain’t gonna fix that.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 7, 2020 8:15:24 GMT -5
I don't think the XMC-2 is comparable to the UMC-1 in terms of issues. If you have been around Emotiva for a long time like I have, you remember that they were extremely transparent on issues, delivery schedule, etc. for awhile. They were heavily criticized when they did not make those deadlines. So, they then decided to back off the transparency and to only dole out info when they were pretty sure of it. They were slammed for not being transparent.
The one product that has been tough for Emotiva to stabilize has been AV processors. It's a complicated product and the company wants to produce something that provides the latest and greatest, edge of the envelop technology at a reasonable price. It's been a hard goal to achieve, but they have for the most part, at least for the XMC-1 I owned and the XMC-2 I have currently.
I have audio dropout issues and have not been able to use firmware 1.7 because I don't get audio with Video on Standby with my system. My issues appear to be all audio related and I believe fixable via a firmware update.
I think most of us would like to be provided an update as to how the firmware fixes are coming along as well as an update on Dirac availability.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 7, 2020 8:21:24 GMT -5
“PLEASE WAIT” Is this annoying or what? My windows desktop PC boots up faster than this. Changing inputs starts the process all over again. About the only thing that doesn’t trigger a PLEASE WAIT is changing the volume. ...and in the set up menu, prepare to take short naps. Then there is the interface with the cutting edge tech of a cable TV set top box (Ha!)... every time the content has a change in mode eg. from a 5.1 program to a 2.0 commercial TOTAL FUBAR. Turn everything off and start over and PLEASE WAIT. Again the automobile analogy: Sorry it’s cold, you’re late for work and need to start the car....PLEASE WAIT.... Not an expert, but did someone way under spec the processor to save money? Firmware ain’t gonna fix that. I actually prefer to have the PLEASE WAIT notice then have nothing at all. At least I know it's doing something. I would like to see the wait time shortened if possible. There was mention in another thread that the XMC-2 checks for DSD when there is a change and that slows things down. There was mention that in a firmware update there could be an option to turn this off to increase speed.
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Post by almor54 on Jan 7, 2020 8:52:52 GMT -5
Appreciate the input. But this is computerized electronic equipment. There isn’t a tired little mouse inside trying to keep up with all the switches it has to throw. Either it is built correctly with the correct firmware/software and fully tested or you don’t charge people money for it and make excuses or remain silent. Or tell the truth. We know your XMC-1 finally works correctly most of the time, but send it back with one thousand dollars and we’ll send you a new model that isn’t ready and doesn’t really work all the time. Deal?
Emotiva is a for profit business not a philanthropic charity
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 7, 2020 9:43:31 GMT -5
Appreciate the input. But this is computerized electronic equipment. There isn’t a tired little mouse inside trying to keep up with all the switches it has to throw. Either it is built correctly with the correct firmware/software and fully tested or you don’t charge people money for it and make excuses or remain silent. Or tell the truth. We know your XMC-1 finally works correctly most of the time, but send it back with one thousand dollars and we’ll send you a new model that isn’t ready and doesn’t really work all the time. Deal? Emotiva is a for profit business not a philanthropic charity As all of them are. I don't know of a single company that makes a processor such as this that is 100% "ready". I've owned Denon receivers that have had issues that I've had to work around. I've even had a Sony TV with a DVI input that would not work with a Sony PS3 even after Sony told me is "should" work. There is no way that any company can fully test every possible combination and variable to make sure it works completely. I am optimistic that the audio issues will be fixed via firmware update and that we will eventually receive Dirac. There is always the option to return and buy something else.
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Post by almor54 on Jan 7, 2020 10:20:25 GMT -5
Thanks again for your input. Hopefully these issues will get fixed to one degree or another.
I have not had issues with other electronics as you described without demanding a new fully working unit or a full refund.
Sadly there doesn’t appear to be a return and refund scenario in this case that makes me whole, is equitable and returns me to a situation where I again have a functioning unit and all my cash, tax and shipping is refunded. Where is my traded-in unit and what unseen potential damage has occurred with all the shipping since I last saw it?
I would entertain a payment of list price of an XMC-2, my sales tax and shipping PLUS a TBD amount of compensatory damages for my time and trouble and punitive damages for false advertising etc. But that would require paying an attorney.
Yeah my patience has run out and I am getting sick of their BS. UMC was a nice try, XMC-1 purchase was only because UMC never really worked and I had a discount card. After almost 5 years and several DIRAC setup attempts, XMC-1 had just started working fairly well before the trade in. The XMC-2 is “shame on me”. At my age I should know there’s no free lunch. If one’s expectations are those of a $5K unit, should have saved up and purchases one. My bad.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 7, 2020 11:02:51 GMT -5
Thanks again for your input. Hopefully these issues will get fixed to one degree or another. I have not had issues with other electronics as you described without demanding a new fully working unit or a full refund. Sadly there doesn’t appear to be a return and refund scenario in this case that makes me whole, is equitable and returns me to a situation where I again have a functioning unit and all my cash, tax and shipping is refunded. Where is my traded-in unit and what unseen potential damage has occurred with all the shipping since I last saw it? I would entertain a payment of list price of an XMC-2, my sales tax and shipping PLUS a TBD amount of compensatory damages for my time and trouble and punitive damages for false advertising etc. But that would require paying an attorney. Yeah my patience has run out and I am getting sick of their BS. UMC was a nice try, XMC-1 purchase was only because UMC never really worked and I had a discount card. After almost 5 years and several DIRAC setup attempts, XMC-1 had just started working fairly well before the trade in. The XMC-2 is “shame on me”. At my age I should know there’s no free lunch. If one’s expectations are those of a $5K unit, should have saved up and purchases one. My bad. Sounds like you are frustrated and should have sold your XMC-1 and purchased something else. Or just kept it. I never owned the UMC-1. The XMC-1 was my first pre-pro and replaced a Denon receiver. I had a couple issues with the XMC-1 that were resolved and Dirac worked great. It was a stable unit after the last firmware update. I knew that as with any new piece of gear just released that there may be issues. I also knew that Dirac was not yet available. Paying $651 to upgrade to a brand new unit with the latest inputs/outputs and integrated 4K board for a $2,999 list price processor put me over the edge. Also, new 5 year warranty. My other option would have been to keep the XMC-1, which is the most likely, or to buy a pre-pro from Marantz/Yamaha/etc. at a minimum starting cost of $1,600 and up or buying a $1,500 - $2,000 receiver with no XLR inputs. Emotiva as a company is excellent. I've been to Emofest in Franklin, TN and have seen how they manufacture and assemble these products. They are passionate audio/videophiles. Dan Laufman is a very nice man. I have had great customer service when I've needed it. Right now, discounting Dirac, my issues with the XMC-2 are annoying but small. The occasional audio dropout when switching channels which is remedied by switching speaker presets on the remote. Everything else on my unit appears to be working well. Yes, I feel your frustration and assuming you have the same audio issues, lack of Dirac, and slow switching, I believe with time and patience (hard to do), these will be resolved through firmware update and of course the implementation of Dirac.
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Post by MonsieurAl on Jan 8, 2020 14:22:48 GMT -5
Here I bought a processor "made in china" at $ 150 and it bug I would say it was my fault I had to buy better is more high end ... well no I bought the high end of Emotiva and it bug and it lacks functionality and no info from the manufacturer. Find the mistake
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Jan 8, 2020 14:48:51 GMT -5
For me Emotiva has delivered the XMC2 with everything they promised except for Dirac.
Here is a list that was important to me:
1. Dolby Atmos - check. I’m using my XMC2 in a 5.2.4 configuration and I am able to watch movies using my Sony 4K Blu-ray player and AppleTV.
2. Great 2 channel sound quality - check. Even without Dirac, my XMC2 sounded great from day 1. Using REW, sound quality has improved. I have listened to a lot of music in the last few months which is more than i had in a long while.
3. Great sound quality for movies - check. Sound quality for movies are very impressive. I like Dolby over DTS, for whatever reason it seems like it sounds a little better. And since I got my new sub, movies are shaking my foundation.
4. Dirac - buzz. Obviously Emotiva needs to deliver Dirac.
I didn’t have any requirements around the XMC2’s reliability. That’s a given and for me, after I got the new HDMI cables in the first week of owning it, it’s been very reliable. I’m very happy with how I am able to use it every day with no issues. While I don’t doubt others have issues whether it be from the XMC2 or the device that the XMC2 is connected to or both, it’s been pretty darn good for me.
When they deliver Dirac, then my XMC2 will be complete. Until then, I will be using it daily. It’s not a chore to turn my XMC2 on - your mileage may vary but I feel like I got a great deal on it.
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Post by motogp34 on Jan 12, 2020 22:07:43 GMT -5
Just pickedup my xmc2/xpa11. I would have to agree with almor54, i have owned numerous units ( Rotel/Marantz/Cambridge etc.) all were bug free and ran great. At this day and age and this price point the units shouldn't lag like they do to boot up and switching. And no Dirac live yet, which was a big selling point to me is a big flaw !! So far no glitches yet, keep my fingers crossed...
Also the remote could be better, lighter / backlit especially when you pick it up. Other company's are doing this.
Emotiva is great company buy something is lacking somewhere where they should be up to snuff on everything...
And their is no support here in Canada Why ??
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Post by davidl81 on Jan 12, 2020 22:21:25 GMT -5
Just pickedup my xmc2/xpa11. I would have to agree with almor54, i have owned numerous units ( Rotel/Marantz/Cambridge etc.) all were bug free and ran great. At this day and age and this price point the units shouldn't lag like they do to boot up and switching. And no Dirac live yet, which was a big selling point to me is a big flaw !! So far no glitches yet, keep my fingers crossed... Also the remote could be better, lighter / backlit especially when you pick it up. Other company's are doing this. Emotiva is great company buy something is lacking somewhere where they should be up to snuff on everything... And their is no support here in Canada Why ?? The remote issues comes up a lot. I think once you get to this level of processor many of them expect that you will buy some sort of universal remote or some other custom installed type of automation. Many of the higher prices units don’t even come with remotes. But I do agree, why does Emotiva have this brick of a remote, when a plastic unit would be better for most consumers and cheaper to make? I did end up buying a Logitech Harmony remote and it has been a great purchase. I have the hub where I can turn things on from my phone which is nice. I can turn my system on from my phone and it give the projector type to warm up and get all the devices booted up.
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Post by motogp34 on Jan 12, 2020 22:24:57 GMT -5
Just pickedup my xmc2/xpa11. I would have to agree with almor54, i have owned numerous units ( Rotel/Marantz/Cambridge etc.) all were bug free and ran great. At this day and age and this price point the units shouldn't lag like they do to boot up and switching. And no Dirac live yet, which was a big selling point to me is a big flaw !! So far no glitches yet, keep my fingers crossed... Also the remote could be better, lighter / backlit especially when you pick it up. Other company's are doing this. Emotiva is great company buy something is lacking somewhere where they should be up to snuff on everything... And their is no support here in Canada Why ?? The remote issues comes up a lot. I think once you get to this level of processor many of them expect that you will buy some sort of universal remote or some other custom installed type of automation. Many of the higher prices units don’t even come with remotes. But I do agree, why does Emotiva have this brick of a remote, when a plastic unit would be better for most consumers and cheaper to make? I did end up buying a Logitech Harmony remote and it has been a great purchase. I have the hub where I can turn things on from my phone which is nice. I can turn my system on from my phone and it give the projector type to warm up and get all the devices booted up. Just look at oppo remote for the 203/205, Amazing !! Sorry but at this price point you shouldn't have to do anything. All boxes should be chk...
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Post by davidl81 on Jan 12, 2020 22:30:36 GMT -5
The remote issues comes up a lot. I think once you get to this level of processor many of them expect that you will buy some sort of universal remote or some other custom installed type of automation. Many of the higher prices units don’t even come with remotes. But I do agree, why does Emotiva have this brick of a remote, when a plastic unit would be better for most consumers and cheaper to make? I did end up buying a Logitech Harmony remote and it has been a great purchase. I have the hub where I can turn things on from my phone which is nice. I can turn my system on from my phone and it give the projector type to warm up and get all the devices booted up. Just look at oppo remote for the 203/205, Amazing !! Sorry but at this price point you shouldn't have to do anything. All boxes should be chk... This is what I bough. Found a refurbished unit on eBay for $150. It has been a great unit. www.logitech.com/en-us/product/harmony-elite?crid=60
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Post by motogp34 on Jan 12, 2020 22:44:59 GMT -5
They have xmc1 remote app but needs to be updated and no longer works. Come on guys ?!?
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Post by davidl81 on Jan 12, 2020 23:03:02 GMT -5
They have xmc1 remote app but needs to be updated and no longer works. Come on guys ?!? What’s not working on it? It seems to work fine with my RMC-1
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Post by motogp34 on Jan 12, 2020 23:10:08 GMT -5
They have xmc1 remote app but needs to be updated and no longer works. Come on guys ?!? What’s not working on it? It seems to work fine with my RMC-1 dose not work at all ? Loads but doesn't do anything...
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Post by davidl81 on Jan 12, 2020 23:40:14 GMT -5
What’s not working on it? It seems to work fine with my RMC-1 dose not work at all ? Loads but doesn't do anything... Dumb question, but is your XMC hooked up to your network via cat 5 cable?
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Post by motogp34 on Jan 12, 2020 23:56:39 GMT -5
dose not work at all ? Loads but doesn't do anything... Dumb question, but is your XMC hooked up to your network via cat 5 cable? yes
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 13, 2020 1:10:37 GMT -5
Just pickedup my xmc2/xpa11. I would have to agree with almor54, i have owned numerous units ( Rotel/Marantz/Cambridge etc.) all were bug free and ran great. I've never seen one single processor or AVR that was bug free, that's the ones that I have owned and those that I have helped install for others. You must have been just plain lucky if you have. Rotel handshaking is notoriously bad, some cable boxes simply won't work with them at all. Had a Cambridge processor that simply wouldn't play through the sub woofer on DTS content, OK with Dolby content. An Azur 551R would have no sound at all on power up, had to cycle it to get any sound, sometimes more than once. Of course every Cambridge audio AVR suffers from the missing 2 or 3 seconds of audio on switching sources. Let's not talk about the Cambridge lip sync problem. The fact is since HDMI/HDCP all have bugs, issues, problems or strange "features". Cheers Gary
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