|
Post by megash0n on May 8, 2020 10:46:09 GMT -5
It’s been a long time (several years) since I ran Dirac on the XMC-1, my experience is minimal, but I could swear it changed the crossover point for one or more of my speakers. I know the discussion has been that it doesn’t touch the crossover, but my (very vague) memory is different. No one else remembers this? I don't see how it wouldn't with the new stuff they are delivering.
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,211
|
Post by geebo on May 8, 2020 11:01:17 GMT -5
It’s been a long time (several years) since I ran Dirac on the XMC-1, my experience is minimal, but I could swear it changed the crossover point for one or more of my speakers. I know the discussion has been that it doesn’t touch the crossover, but my (very vague) memory is different. No one else remembers this? I don't ever recall Dirac changing any crossover. But maybe it just liked what I had already set.
|
|
|
Post by fbczar on May 8, 2020 11:53:54 GMT -5
It’s been a long time (several years) since I ran Dirac on the XMC-1, my experience is minimal, but I could swear it changed the crossover point for one or more of my speakers. I know the discussion has been that it doesn’t touch the crossover, but my (very vague) memory is different. No one else remembers this? Dirac Live on the XMC-1 most definitely did not set the crossover point of any speaker.
|
|
Lsc
Emo VIPs
Posts: 3,352
|
Post by Lsc on May 8, 2020 12:10:29 GMT -5
Agreed on the crossovers. The crossovers are a new feature for Dirac. While it’s been included in every other room correction (that I guess isn’t as good as Dirac’s magical room correction).
|
|
|
Post by megash0n on May 8, 2020 12:47:12 GMT -5
It’s been a long time (several years) since I ran Dirac on the XMC-1, my experience is minimal, but I could swear it changed the crossover point for one or more of my speakers. I know the discussion has been that it doesn’t touch the crossover, but my (very vague) memory is different. No one else remembers this? I don't ever recall Dirac changing any crossover. But maybe it just liked what I had already set. I'm far from a Dirac expert. Disclaimer... But, the base Dirac has no need for a crossover. It does a full sweep if you will and applies a "mixed-phase" filtering concept to adjust timing, phase and eq throughout each individual channel as it sees it. That's it.. That's all. One channel doesn't care what the other is doing. What DBC appears to do, if you read the PDF I linked, is to integrate the system together instead of each channel being stand-alone. They will have "channel groupings" and will rely on controlling the crossover frequency, and slope, per grouping to determine a proper integration with one or many subwoofers or speakers capable of producing lower frequencies. I am not the authority on this. I'm just a technical engine reading a fairly technical document. This is how I interpret that document and this new add-on. I also have the opinion that we will see this as part of Dirac 3.0. I can see this technology being relevant even without subs. For example, Dirac controlling the routing of 80hz and below from a surround channel to the mains. This would also require Dirac to be in control of the crossovers.
|
|
|
Post by markc on May 8, 2020 13:35:22 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on May 8, 2020 14:55:15 GMT -5
I’ll take the group’s learned opinion. My recollection is that because my speakers are essentially all the same (or were at the time), I set all their crossovers to 80Hz, then ran Dirac. I ‘thought’ when Dirac was done, my center channel was at 90Hz, but this kind of detail is not something I stand firmly on remembering. 🤔
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,004
|
Post by KeithL on May 8, 2020 14:59:43 GMT -5
No.... Dirac did not and will not set your crossover frequencies.
Dirac Live calibrates each speaker as if it is full range.... (or however you have the curtains set). You then get to set the crossover however you prefer afterwards. (And, if you had set it when you initially set the speaker to small, it should not change.)
I’ll take the group’s learned opinion. My recollection is that because my speakers are essentially all the same (or were at the time), I set all their crossovers to 80Hz, then ran Dirac. I ‘thought’ when Dirac was done, my center channel was at 90Hz, but this kind of detail is not something I stand firmly on remembering. 🤔
|
|
geebo
Emo VIPs
"Too bad that all the people who know how to run the country are driving taxicabs and cutting hair"
Posts: 24,211
|
Post by geebo on May 8, 2020 15:16:44 GMT -5
Will Dirac 2 accept target curves created in Dirac 1?
|
|
|
Post by megash0n on May 8, 2020 15:46:52 GMT -5
KeithL, In relation to capturing measurements, would you propose we use the mic you guys gave us or use a UMIK-1 if we have it? I'm not sure if it matters really, but if you had both...which would you use?
|
|
|
Post by megash0n on May 8, 2020 16:07:03 GMT -5
KeithL , another question. As I read the new Dirac manual released today, I see that Distance is still in the menu structure and before Dirac. In looking simply at the menu, it would appear you guys have Dirac strictly under Equalization. If part of the Dirac magic is to manipulate the time domain, how does all this jive? It would seem that Dirac would want to be in control of the time domain and that we should not be setting that ourselves. Maybe this is referenced in the PDF and I haven't gotten that far yet. Edit: I've been reading a lot on other forums regarding the DBC implementation on other processors. It appears that Dirac Live and DBC will both "adjust" the time domain regardless. I gathered that most are setting the distance to zero and letting Dirac set what it likes. Otherwise, it sets a value in relation to what you have already set on the processor.
|
|
|
Post by bluescale on May 11, 2020 12:31:32 GMT -5
Wow...a lot of info since I last checked this thread. Thank you so much megash0n for digging in and doing so much legwork. At this point we'll just have to wait and see what come down the pike once DBC is officially available and Emotiva has had a chance to evaluate it. Monoprice has committed (on forums, at least) to support this feature. In order to remain relevant and competitive, I hope the Emo processors can do the same, and in a timely manner relative to other processors. Once Dirac is released for Emotiva, they will finally be on equal footing with the competition. I hope to see it remain that way.
|
|
Lsc
Emo VIPs
Posts: 3,352
|
Post by Lsc on May 11, 2020 13:04:42 GMT -5
Wow...a lot of info since I last checked this thread. Thank you so much megash0n for digging in and doing so much legwork. At this point we'll just have to wait and see what come down the pike once DBC is officially available and Emotiva has had a chance to evaluate it. Monoprice has committed (on forums, at least) to support this feature. In order to remain relevant and competitive, I hope the Emo processors can do the same, and in a timely manner relative to other processors. Once Dirac is released for Emotiva, they will finally be on equal footing with the competition. I hope to see it remain that way. I recall sometime in January, Monoprice said they were getting the Dirac bass control module code and I don’t think it’s implemented yet.
|
|
|
Post by bluescale on May 11, 2020 13:10:43 GMT -5
I recall sometime in January, Monoprice said they were getting the Dirac bass control module code and I don’t think it’s implemented yet. It's not implemented yet, and I didn't find it listed on their official product page. However, they did commit to it on AVS, so it'll be a pretty big black eye if they back out. So far they've handled the rollout of this processor very well, so I'm betting on them getting this part right, too.
|
|
richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 860
|
Post by richb on May 11, 2020 13:42:02 GMT -5
Dirac bass control is a natural fit for a 16 to 24 channel processor.
I don’t think it has to be free. 😜
- Rich
|
|
|
Post by megash0n on May 11, 2020 14:14:04 GMT -5
I recall sometime in January, Monoprice said they were getting the Dirac bass control module code and I don’t think it’s implemented yet. It's not implemented yet, and I didn't find it listed on their official product page. However, they did commit to it on AVS, so it'll be a pretty big black eye if they back out. So far they've handled the rollout of this processor very well, so I'm betting on them getting this part right, too. Many have it in production now with other processors. I have no doubt Emotiva will get it going once they receive the code from Dirac and everything meets certification, etc.
|
|
|
Post by bluescale on May 11, 2020 14:25:18 GMT -5
It's not implemented yet, and I didn't find it listed on their official product page. However, they did commit to it on AVS, so it'll be a pretty big black eye if they back out. So far they've handled the rollout of this processor very well, so I'm betting on them getting this part right, too. Many have it in production now with other processors. I have no doubt Emotiva will get it going once they receive the code from Dirac and everything meets certification, etc. Many processors have DBC? I don't think that's true.
|
|
richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 860
|
Post by richb on May 11, 2020 14:51:29 GMT -5
Many have it in production now with other processors. I have no doubt Emotiva will get it going once they receive the code from Dirac and everything meets certification, etc. Many processors have DBC? I don't think that's true. On ASR, Flavio has stated that Storm Audio has it. That's one. - Rich
|
|
timg
Minor Hero
Posts: 68
|
Post by timg on May 11, 2020 15:13:54 GMT -5
The way AVSforum works, the RMC-1 should be 28 channels as originally noted. 11 ground level, 7 elevated (6+VOG), and at least 8 subwoofer channels with DBM/DBC. (VBSS, BOSS, a few 24's, some near field, maybe a couple of devastators, etc.) I would push for extra Atmos heights, but everybody knows that if you can't hit 130 dB at 2 hz or if you can still see when the bass hits, your theater is a joke...
Another great way to use 28 channels is with active crossovers on the processor and elimination of passive crossovers for the front stage.
Tim
|
|
KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,004
|
Post by KeithL on May 11, 2020 17:10:27 GMT -5
We put a lot of thought into how to integrate multiple Dirac filter choices with Manual options and multiple Speaker Presets.
And, even so, you really need to keep track of what's going on...
Each of the Speaker Presets has three Dirac Live slots and a Manual slot. So, if you set the distances, those settings will be used when you select the Manual slot. However, when Dirac Live runs, it will then take its own measurements, and do its own time corrections for the filters it creates.
(I know Dirac will ignore those settings when it takes its measurements... and I don't think you can use them like trims afterwards either... although I'm not sure.)
However, you have to be even more careful to keep track of things when it comes to which speakers you do and don't have... For example, before running Dirac Live from inside one of the Speaker Presets, you need to set which speakers you do and don't have IN THAT PRESET. (Remember that, in our processors, the two Speaker Presets are separate, and may contain different speakers, one could be for Atmos 7.1.4, and the other one for Stereo 2.0 .)
Then, when you run Dirac Live, it will read that information from THAT Speaker Preset in the XMC-2/RMC-1, and use it to decide what speakers to measure and create filters for. Then, when you select that set of Dirac filters later, you need to set the manual speaker settings to match those in effect when the filters were created. (If you tried to use a 2.0 channel stereo filter set with your 7.1.4 Atmos speaker configuration, or vice versa, the results would be somewhat odd.)
That's why we made a point of suggesting that, when you create your Dirac filters, you mention what speaker setup they go with in the name you use for each. KeithL , another question. As I read the new Dirac manual released today, I see that Distance is still in the menu structure and before Dirac. In looking simply at the menu, it would appear you guys have Dirac strictly under Equalization. If part of the Dirac magic is to manipulate the time domain, how does all this jive? It would seem that Dirac would want to be in control of the time domain and that we should not be setting that ourselves. Maybe this is referenced in the PDF and I haven't gotten that far yet. Edit: I've been reading a lot on other forums regarding the DBC implementation on other processors. It appears that Dirac Live and DBC will both "adjust" the time domain regardless. I gathered that most are setting the distance to zero and letting Dirac set what it likes. Otherwise, it sets a value in relation to what you have already set on the processor.
|
|